Hawaii has established LOOTBOX regislation.

General Discussion
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02/13/2018 04:43 PMPosted by Selauriel
So spending my money on a game of chance isn't considered gambling? Is it because what I'm gambling for is cosmetics? That makes no difference.


It's not gambling because you always get something. That's the reasoning. You never walk away with nothing you are instead buying X amount of things which has the random chance to improve for no extra cost to you. When you buy a lootbox you are buying 3 common items and one rare item, always. That's why it's not gambling man.
I wish Blizzard would just give us the option to purchase credits so we could get the items we want.
02/13/2018 04:43 PMPosted by Selauriel
02/13/2018 04:37 PMPosted by Zefiris
...It's as if lootboxes aren't gambling.
So spending my money on a game of chance isn't considered gambling? Is it because what I'm gambling for is cosmetics? That makes no difference.
Sorry to break it to you, ESRB applies their definition of gambling, not yours. Also, gambling involves risk, in that, you might get nothing at all. Lootboxes are more accurately described as "grab bags", might get something great, might not get some so great, but you do get something.
02/13/2018 04:46 PMPosted by Parker
02/13/2018 04:43 PMPosted by Selauriel
So spending my money on a game of chance isn't considered gambling? Is it because what I'm gambling for is cosmetics? That makes no difference.


It's not gambling because you always get something. That's the reasoning. You never walk away with nothing you are instead buying X amount of things which has the random chance to improve for no extra cost to you. When you buy a lootbox you are buying 3 common items and one rare item, always. That's why it's not gambling man.

^ This ^ So ^ Much ^
02/13/2018 04:46 PMPosted by Profane
02/13/2018 03:30 PMPosted by SLThanatos
...
There is a profound difference between digital item sales and purchasing tangible items that can be resold.

If you open a pack of Magic cards, you can always resell or trade those cards. In Overwatch, you're stuck with all of those useless avatars and voicelines that you never wanted.

There honestly isn't a big difference, hell I'd say OW's system is more forgiving.

They're both a pack/box of items that are completely random, except you're guaranteed at least ONE rare or higher rarity item in every pack/box.

OW's is more forgiving because duplicate items don't appear until your collection is nearing complete of that specific rarity whereas a pack of cards could grant you duplicates upon duplicates of cards you don't need or even want.

Plus the content of both items are not necessities in life, they're both 'addictions' if the other is.

Don't say one is okay and the other is not when they're essentially the same thing.
TCG's are actually worse. Best not even compare the two as TCG's are the very definition of "pay to win" and that you have to keep paying to win on top of that.
Can't they just stop selling in Hawaii and lose $17 a year? I don't see this as an issue.
02/13/2018 03:33 AMPosted by NooneSpecial
2. They must mention that they have gambling in the rating content of the game.


Except loot boxes aren't gambling.

You're always guaranteed to get something from a loot box so there's no risk of loss as there is with gambling, and you don't even need to pay real money to get them as you can earn them just by playing.
02/13/2018 04:34 PMPosted by MRBobbyr
I find it weird as the offical ESRB page lists gambling with real money as an Adult/18+ game but they never enforce it with lootboxes


Because the ESRB don't consider lootboxes to be gambling.
Will be interesting to see how this whole thing devolps in the coming months as there's other countries that want to full on ban loot boxes.
I'm still trying to figure out what regislation is.
I can't wait until loot boxes are killed off everywhere. They're trash, shouldn't have existed in the first place. These poor AAA companies, how will they continuously update their game now?
02/13/2018 03:43 PMPosted by NooneSpecial
Sure, you could buy the cards individually to begin with... Just like you can with Overwatch items.

Let me just stop you right there.

I cannot go into the Overwatch store and buy Butcher Roadhog for $5. I have to buy lootboxes or grind them out, and there is zero guarantee that I will get it. If I don't get it, I have to hope that I got enough currency out of those boxes in order to buy it. There is no guarantee that I will, especially with the most recent changes reducing the duplicate drops. That cut into my credits earned pretty heavily, and I'm still not seeing the currency drops Blizzard said I would.

Meanwhile I can buy MTG booster packs...or I can buy one of the many, many premade decks and know exactly what I am getting. On top of that, I can go online and purchase the card I want for a flat fee, or even go into a gaming store and buy it there. If I need Ramnunap Ruins for my deck, I have options besides buying more booster packs.

I can't do any of that with Overwatch items.

Comparing lootboxes to CCGs is like comparing apples to oranges, bud.
how the hell is blizzard supposed to make any money without charging for loot boxes and stuff? The servers don't run on Symmetra main tears, you know....
02/13/2018 05:42 PMPosted by SLThanatos
I cannot go into the Overwatch store and buy Butcher Roadhog for $5. I have to buy lootboxes or grind them out, and there is zero guarantee that I will get it. If I don't get it, I have to hope that I got enough currency out of those boxes in order to buy it. There is no guarantee that I will, especially with the most recent changes reducing the duplicate drops. That cut into my credits earned pretty heavily, and I'm still not seeing the currency drops Blizzard said I would.
The OW lootboxes are played long term for the player. You claim that you aren't seeing the currency but since you're not seeing currency, you're getting actual items. Those items are filling in gaps til you start getting duplicates at which point you'll be getting currency instead.

However, to put things into perspective, I'm already up nearly 1k currency since the start of this event. Sure you'll go through periods of not getting much, but that's offset by periods you get bunches.

But there is one thing for sure, at some point, you will get what you want. May not be today, may not be tomorrow, but you will get it if you continue to play the game.
02/13/2018 04:58 PMPosted by Comixfan
02/13/2018 03:33 AMPosted by NooneSpecial
2. They must mention that they have gambling in the rating content of the game.


Except loot boxes aren't gambling.

You're always guaranteed to get something from a loot box so there's no risk of loss as there is with gambling, and you don't even need to pay real money to get them as you can earn them just by playing.


Not my words or definition, it's what their laws state. Just summing it.
02/13/2018 04:46 PMPosted by Parker
02/13/2018 04:43 PMPosted by Selauriel
So spending my money on a game of chance isn't considered gambling? Is it because what I'm gambling for is cosmetics? That makes no difference.


It's not gambling because you always get something. That's the reasoning. You never walk away with nothing you are instead buying X amount of things which has the random chance to improve for no extra cost to you. When you buy a lootbox you are buying 3 common items and one rare item, always. That's why it's not gambling man.
childish reasoning to say the least.

Casinos now give you a piece of gum with every spin of the slots. Slots are no longer gambling because you always win something.

Do you see why this is naive at best?
02/13/2018 04:46 PMPosted by Parker
It's not gambling because you always get something. That's the reasoning.
Terrible reasoning, then technically all the casino's could hand out a soy package or something every time you gambled, since you know, it's not gambling anymore since you "got something".

02/13/2018 05:52 PMPosted by Zefiris
but you will get it if you continue to play the game.
Exactly what they want, just like freemium games give you a taste of the game and then lock it behind micro transactions, they want you to play, they want you to pay.

They give you the "free" loot boxes with the hopes that you are craving that special skin and when you don't get it, you'll buy loot boxes as a last resort before it gets event locked for a whole year.
02/13/2018 05:08 PMPosted by Comixfan
02/13/2018 04:34 PMPosted by MRBobbyr
I find it weird as the offical ESRB page lists gambling with real money as an Adult/18+ game but they never enforce it with lootboxes


Because the ESRB don't consider lootboxes to be gambling.
the exists to protect the gaming companies. They would not condemn their own people.
02/13/2018 05:42 PMPosted by SLThanatos
02/13/2018 03:43 PMPosted by NooneSpecial
Sure, you could buy the cards individually to begin with... Just like you can with Overwatch items.

Let me just stop you right there.

I cannot go into the Overwatch store and buy Butcher Roadhog for $5. I have to buy lootboxes or grind them out, and there is zero guarantee that I will get it. If I don't get it, I have to hope that I got enough currency out of those boxes in order to buy it. There is no guarantee that I will, especially with the most recent changes reducing the duplicate drops. That cut into my credits earned pretty heavily, and I'm still not seeing the currency drops Blizzard said I would.

Meanwhile I can buy MTG booster packs...or I can buy one of the many, many premade decks and know exactly what I am getting. On top of that, I can go online and purchase the card I want for a flat fee, or even go into a gaming store and buy it there. If I need Ramnunap Ruins for my deck, I have options besides buying more booster packs.

I can't do any of that with Overwatch items.

Comparing lootboxes to CCGs is like comparing apples to oranges, bud.


Let me stop you right there.
You can buy Butcher Roadhog for 1000 credits. You get credits over time playing the game.
You purchase booster packs with money. You don't just get money. You get it over time for doing something.

And mate I've worked in a tabletop game store and played MTG for years. Premade decks typically aren't worth the cardboard they're printed on, the exception being Commander decks, and that's typically because of the couple of new cards designed specifically for the format and not available through typical means. If you want something like Tarmogofy, you aren't getting that in a premade deck, because they don't put cards worth that kind of money in premades.
Ye, you can buy Ramnunap Ruins for your deck online. It's a 25c uncommon. That's not exactly a hard feat to accomplish.
"I can buy a voice line." That's the argument you just made. Something that isn't expensive, and extremely likely through purchase of the gambling option.

Oh and for the record: Those stores that you're going and purchasing the individual cards from. Have you ever considered where exactly they get their stock from? They have to open booster packs. Every new set for every card game we would open several boxes of the thing. Our stock was the gamble. Everyone wants that chase Mythic? Well we had better hope we get more than 2 in the 6 boxes were opening. Oh we didn't get more than 2. Welp, looks like we don't have stock and people have to get it from boosters themselves. The gamble happens somewhere, whether its the customer or the store.

Your argument doesn't work.
02/13/2018 05:42 PMPosted by SLThanatos
...
Let me just stop you right there.

I cannot go into the Overwatch store and buy Butcher Roadhog for $5. I have to buy lootboxes or grind them out, and there is zero guarantee that I will get it. If I don't get it, I have to hope that I got enough currency out of those boxes in order to buy it. There is no guarantee that I will, especially with the most recent changes reducing the duplicate drops. That cut into my credits earned pretty heavily, and I'm still not seeing the currency drops Blizzard said I would.

Meanwhile I can buy MTG booster packs...or I can buy one of the many, many premade decks and know exactly what I am getting. On top of that, I can go online and purchase the card I want for a flat fee, or even go into a gaming store and buy it there. If I need Ramnunap Ruins for my deck, I have options besides buying more booster packs.

I can't do any of that with Overwatch items.

Comparing lootboxes to CCGs is like comparing apples to oranges, bud.


Let me stop you right there.
You can buy Butcher Roadhog for 1000 credits. You get credits over time playing the game.
You purchase booster packs with money. You don't just get money. You get it over time for doing something.

And mate I've worked in a tabletop game stop and played MTG for years. Premade decks typically aren't worth the cardboard theyre printed on, the exception being Commander decks. If you want something like Tarmogofy, you aren't getting that in a premade deck, because they don't put cards.
Ye, you can buy Ramnunap Ruins for your deck online. It's a 25c uncommon. That's not exactly a hard feat to accomplish.
"I can buy a voice line." That's the argument you just made. Something that isn't expensive, and extremely likely through purchase of the gambling option.

Your argument doesn't work.
Uh no, because your first statement is a lie

You don’t get credits for playing the game. You get lootboxes. If I keep playing, and only play, I don’t get credits. I get nothing, except lootboxes.

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