Why do so many support mains here not get this?

General Discussion
Heroes have always and will always be nerfed or buffed based on how they perform relative to other heroes in the same classes.

-Ana was nerfed due to her being mandatory, and making Lucio/Mercy troll picks

-Mercy was nerfed due to her being mandatory, and making Ana/Lucio/Moira troll picks

-If Moira gets a nerf it will be if she vastly outperforms the other supports. If she does not outperform the other supports, don't worry too hard about her getting nerfed.

None of this is the fault of the DPS boogie man. The precedent of overperforming heroes being toned down is universal, and no other group seems to blame other groups for it.

-Nobody blamed Mercy mains for Genji being nerfed so hard. We all knew he was overpowered and deserved it

-Nobody blamed Ana for S76 losing his 20 damage. Most DPS mains were happy to be able to run non-s76 dps heroes again

-Nobody argued that Widow lost her 150 damage bodyshot because Lucio mains wanted DPS heroes to be useless.

-And, although D.Va did lose her armour to help Reaper, even then nobody tried to pin things on the complaints of Reaper mains. D.Va was mandatory due to how strong she was against her counters.

So, please, next time a support hero is overpowered, instead of just going REEEEEE GENJI MAINS, at least try to recognise that nerfing that hero will increase the number of viable support heroes and make the bracket as a whole healthier.
Highly Rated
So when are Tracer and Genji being nerfed? They make other DPS seem like troll picks. (For the record, I don't want either of them nerfed beyond bug fixes).
02/07/2018 03:11 AMPosted by Monkeyman
So when are Tracer and Genji being nerfed? They make other DPS seem like troll picks. (For the record, I don't want either of them nerfed beyond bug fixes).


Probably never, as they don't. At least not on the ladder.

Tracer does outperform the other DPS heroes in the pro scene, but the precedent of
nerfing for the pro scene hasn't been set yet.
02/07/2018 03:17 AMPosted by Edsoulman
Because support mains have a victim complex. They want to believe that they are effected worse than anyone else.


Give me an example of a single DPS that has been nerfed in the last 6 months to the point their pickrate dropped as much as Ana's did when they nerfed her.

I will be waiting.
Probably because sometimes other supports should be buffed and not the better one nerfed? At least that's the case now with Ana, she is outperformed by Moira because she is weak.
02/07/2018 03:18 AMPosted by Chaos
02/07/2018 03:17 AMPosted by Edsoulman
Because support mains have a victim complex. They want to believe that they are effected worse than anyone else.


Give me an example of a single DPS that has been nerfed in the last 6 months to the point their pickrate dropped as much as Ana's did when they nerfed her.

I will be waiting.


Doomfist.
02/07/2018 03:09 AMPosted by EMc73
nerfed or buffed based on how they perform relative to other heroes


Yeah, yeah.... say that to tracer and genji. Also D.Va and monkey.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Give me an example of a single DPS that has been nerfed in the last 6 months to the point their pickrate dropped as much as Ana's did when they nerfed her.

I will be waiting.


Doomfist.


They were hitbox changes so they count as QoL fixes not nerfs. And they were recently changed again to rectify it.

And those changes happened before he even had a pickrate to gauge to begin with.
Nah bruh, just make every support as good as pre-nerf Mercy and we are fine. (sarcasm)
Mercy wouldn't have been had to be nerfed if she hasn't gotten an unnecessary and unwanted rework.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Doomfist.


They were hitbox changes so they count as QoL fixes not nerfs.

And those changes happened before he even had a pickrate to gauge to begin with.


Lol, what?? Doomfist nerfs were a QOL Fix? I’m sure the Doomfist mains would really agree with you.

Reaaaallly clutching at straws there pal.

EDIT: aaaaand I’m getting downvotes off bitter support mains. You guys are such victims.
02/07/2018 03:19 AMPosted by dostheboss
Probably because sometimes other supports should be buffed and not the better one nerfed? At least that's the case now with Ana, she is outperformed by Moira because she is weak.


Certainly sometimes weak heroes need buffs, but buffing balanced heroes to compete with overpowered ones is again something I only ever see asked for with supports.

People wanted Lucio buffed to be as good as Mercy, which was frankly a terrible idea as Lucio is balanced. Same reason that we'd all be worse off if they had buffed every DPS hero to be as good as pre-nerf Bastion or full damage FTH McCree.
What about doomfist buffs or AT LEAST bug fixes. He is litterally the most broken character atm. People are no bull!@#$ sliding on the walls instead of getting smashed in it.
02/07/2018 03:09 AMPosted by EMc73
Heroes have always and will always be nerfed or buffed based on how they perform relative to other heroes in the same classes.

-Ana was nerfed due to her being mandatory, and making Lucio/Mercy troll picks

-Mercy was nerfed due to her being mandatory, and making Ana/Lucio/Moira troll picks

-If Moira gets a nerf it will be if she vastly outperforms the other supports. If she does not outperform the other supports, don't worry too hard about her getting nerfed.

None of this is the fault of the DPS boogie man. The precedent of overperforming heroes being toned down is universal, and no other group seems to blame other groups for it.

-Nobody blamed Mercy mains for Genji being nerfed so hard. We all knew he was overpowered and deserved it

-Nobody blamed Ana for S76 losing his 20 damage. Most DPS mains were happy to be able to run non-s76 dps heroes again

-Nobody argued that Widow lost her 150 damage bodyshot because Lucio mains wanted DPS heroes to be useless.

-And, although D.Va did lose her armour to help Reaper, even then nobody tried to pin things on the complaints of Reaper mains. D.Va was mandatory due to how strong she was against her counters.

So, please, next time a support hero is overpowered, instead of just going REEEEEE GENJI MAINS, at least try to recognise that nerfing that hero will increase the number of viable support heroes and make the bracket as a whole healthier.


What I don't get is why the community, AND devs have this Mentality of having to nerf one hero to the level of the others instead of BUFFING the others to the level of the "OP" one. I mean yes, Ana nerf was necessary on PC because she was jsut too strong, but the nerf Hammer was overly aggressive on her. Yes, Mercy 2.0 was waay to strong (I'm talking Battle-on-!@#$%^--Valk-Mercy here), and she needed to be toned down because they were literally GAME changers, not only a better option than other healers. Those heroes could carry the whole Game.

Ryujehong was more feared in tournaments than Pine is now, or Poko's DVa bomb placements, or Fleta or Carpe! Because as an Ana, he would get way to much value, never missing sleep basically, dealing a *!@# TON of Burst Damage AND Heal.

But honestly, since Orisa came out and became viable, Ana could have needed a few buffs because the shield game would completely disable her, making her almost a benchwarmer on the roster. Even Ryujehong is looking for alternatives and barely plays her anymore eventhough if someone can get MAX value out of her, it's him and Galeadelade.

But always thinking of nerfing other characters down to the level of other supports is really ruining the game in the sense that nobody wants to play support anymore. We always need to relearn heroes we spent HOURS upon HOURS trying to master and the devs come and say: no, you're done, start all over.

This is getting incredibly frustrating. Blizzard needs absolutely to find a perfect standard hero in the support category just like Tracer is for DPS and use that standard and strive to get the other heroes in that kind of spot. I really think Moira could be that hero. Her incoming nerf to block her heal through the means of barriers is OK, as long as her Heal orb can still go through and her ult. But hitting her with the nerf Hammer would be really frustrating.

Also, I think Mercy is about to get into that role too now. I think people will realise she is actually well balanced now, but it will take time, just like for Hog. Mercy's problem now is though: Who wants to play her? I love playing support, but Mercy doesn't feel fun or engaging to me, I thought that was the goal of her rework in the first place...
Because people believe;

With Mercy= VICTORY

Without Mercy= DEFEAT
Agree.
02/07/2018 03:24 AMPosted by SiROSTRiKE
Mercy wouldn't have been had to be nerfed if she hasn't gotten an unnecessary and unwanted rework.


This. I agree the original valkyrie was op, but balancing her ult around an ability has made it boring to use. Rez should have stayed an ult rather than making it harder and harder to use to the point where all i do is hold m1/m2 now. During mass rez i could at least do damage with my pistol as the team rezzed, during valk with ult i could sacrifice a team member or 2 to gun down a widow no one could reach knowing i could rez them back. Mercy is more reliant on her team than ever now.
Honestly if a hero is a must pick in the game for their ability, (and lets not sugarcoat it, Rez is definitely an ability that can make or break a game ) don't punish that character for having that ability. Give the other characters just as much appeal in their abilities, whether that be buffs, reworks, etc. Its like ruining a new car just to give it just as much value as the other cars
In the moment we don’t need any nerfs! But a lot of buffs and changes. Genji is fine now with Moira that leaves Tracer as 100% hero on any map. But in the end:

Buff Mai (Mobility counter)
Buff Torb (Tracer counter)
Buff Bastion (dive counter)
Buff Sym (dive counter)
Rework Hanzo
Rework Mercy

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