Why does EVERY hero lose their ultimates

General Discussion
I do feel like every hero should lose their ult when they die, EXCEPT when it comes to projectiles. Once it leaves their hands it should be completely separate from them. It's like sombra dying after EMP and suddenly everyone is free from hack, it doesn't make any sense.
02/06/2018 04:10 AMPosted by CoolBiz125
I wish that those heroes didn’t lose their ultimates, or atleast every hero except Genji kept their ultimates. The change was intended for Genji, correct? So why did the change apply to every other hero?


Genji favortism obviously.

When devs make a global nerf to a game's mechanic, they don't apply the nerf only on Genji, instead they always make the nerf global, which proves Genji favoritism.

Remember when Blizzard globally made melee animation not able to be canceled with another ability? They made it global instead of only doing it on Genji.

How about the removal of crouch spam? Instead of only giving the crouch cooldown to Genji, Blizzard gave it to EVERY HERO WTF?

Also remember when Blizzard increased ultimate charge by 25% across the board? They didn't only increase ult charge for dragon blade.

The blatant favoritism for Genji is DISGUSTING!
02/06/2018 08:51 AMPosted by DeadLamb
how Blizzard did not understand that issue is just really strange.


Oh they did understood that.

Its just that they decided to punish people for asking Genji nerfs and instead nerfed everyone else while keeping Genji at status quo.
Consistency. Also, you ulted and died, your fault (or your teams).

However, I'd consider Meis disappearing ult a bug that clearly needs fixing. Perhaps in 2 years ... that's how long it seems to take to fix Mei bugs.
02/06/2018 02:27 PMPosted by Ranulf
02/06/2018 08:51 AMPosted by DeadLamb
how Blizzard did not understand that issue is just really strange.


Oh they did understood that.

Its just that they decided to punish people for asking Genji nerfs and instead nerfed everyone else while keeping Genji at status quo.


For the umpteenth time, Genji was effected by this too.

If he dies, he 100% looses his ult, just like everyone else.

"But muh stuns...!"
If he's stunned...
Shoot him.
Boom.
He's dead and he guarantee no longer has an ult, unlike before where you were actively punished for outplaying him too fast.

Stop whining that you can't follow up on your own stuns and just shoot the dude.

This is just another example of the community not knowing what it's asking for when it begs "for no more special exceptions".
02/06/2018 02:27 PMPosted by pooch
02/06/2018 04:10 AMPosted by CoolBiz125
I wish that those heroes didn’t lose their ultimates, or atleast every hero except Genji kept their ultimates. The change was intended for Genji, correct? So why did the change apply to every other hero?


Genji favortism obviously.

When devs make a global nerf to a game's mechanic, they don't apply the nerf only on Genji, instead they always make the nerf global, which proves Genji favoritism.

Remember when Blizzard globally made melee animation not able to be canceled with another ability? They made it global instead of only doing it on Genji.

How about the removal of crouch spam? Instead of only giving the crouch cooldown to Genji, Blizzard gave it to EVERY HERO WTF?

Also remember when Blizzard increased ultimate charge by 25% across the board? They didn't only increase ult charge for dragon blade.

The blatant favoritism for Genji is DISGUSTING!


Literally none of those problems are "Genji only" issues. The first two were exploitable by all heroes. The global charge nerf was because, as the dev comments said, all heroes were getting their ults too fast. Even after the change you still have people complaining that people like Mercy get theirs too fast.

The fact that you can convince yourself that all of those were meant just to avoid punishing Genji only proves how you don't want game balance, you just specifically hate Genji and are looking for any reason to look down on him.
02/06/2018 02:30 PMPosted by Slyther0829
If he dies, he 100% looses his ult, just like everyone else.


Cast-time ults are lost even if you dont actually use them, so no its not fair.

This isnt about Genji being killed while his team wiping ult is being used you fool.

This is just another example of Genji mains not knowing what it's actually fair design because they are used to the handholding hero anime version.
02/06/2018 02:36 PMPosted by Slyther0829
Literally none of those problems are "Genji only" issues. The first two were exploitable by all heroes.


No other hero has a resetable comboable basically-hitscan dash that can oneshot people in the right combo.
02/06/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Ranulf
02/06/2018 02:36 PMPosted by Slyther0829
Literally none of those problems are "Genji only" issues. The first two were exploitable by all heroes.


No other hero has a resetable comboable basically-hitscan dash that can oneshot people in the right combo.
Bastion oneshots people without even needing to move and his ult lasts longer. I can continue doing 205 damage from a range even while hitting a tank (dash wouldn't reset partway through killing a tank, stopping the combo.)
02/06/2018 06:26 AMPosted by SynicalOFCL
It was listed in a patch notes. Ults were changed cause people would use it and it wouldn't take away all the charge so if your high nooning if you die in the 1st second it'd leave you with 50%. The team thought it was too overpowered and changed it.
That actually got changed a LONG time ago.

As I recall, before the ultimate drain change, McCree was the ONLY hero who once upon activating Deadeye, would lose all of his ult charge instantaneously.

Even if he got killed upon immediate activation he'd drop back down to 0%, meanwhile other heroes could retain 50% or 40%.

Then you'd have Soldier: 76 & Genji who could retain their ultimates permanently.

Also, how was that a buff to Genji? He loses his ult regardless if he gets killed upon activation. That's a straight up nerf if I hear one.

I'm no Genji-Main, but the fact at hand is that if they only implemented the change for Genji and not for anyone else, then it would be unfortunately unfair.
Once upon a time, it used to "drain" the ult usage depending on when you died during the cast time (this was after the 1st fix).

Mcree would default to 50% ult charge
02/06/2018 01:59 PMPosted by Terranguard
People asked for him to not keep ult, but then why was it fair for him to be the only one?


It's would of be fair because players don't view the ULTs as having all these different states and cast times like the programmers do. To the player base ULTs are like getting hit with some water. You have a bucket dumped on you or you get hit with stream of water from a hose for a few seconds.

So for example Reinhardt's ULT would be a bucket. It just slams you. Pharah's is more like a hose. You have a start cycle and "Justice rains from above!!" as you get hit for a while and then it ends. If you can stop her mid way, great. You killed the ULT, nice reaction time. Everyone was ALREADY like that in game. Die! die! ARRRRRGGG!! Justice raiARRRRRGG!!!! It's HighARRRGGGGG!!!

Everyone.... but Genji.

Being he would start his windup with the blade draw and start to say "Ryujin no ken wo kurae!" and at that point in the eyes of the players he is DOING his ULT. No different then everyone else. Sooooo when you stop it right then with say a Hammer down as he pulls his blade it should of been like shooting pharah out the sky. Yet no, for some stupid reason the game did not seem to count that windup as the start of the ULT it was only after the blade was out and he was killing stuff one could hammer him down and with out him just coming back with 80% ULT.

but I'm guessing code wise that was not something they could fix so they just changed everyone.
Cast times exist for a reason - mainly to add more risk reward to some ultimates. I think it's a good thing.

However, I think it's dumb that tracer and Mei have (quite large) cast times. Nothing is more frustrating than watching your projectile poof out of existence. Plus other projectiles like graviton don't have a cast time sooo...
Because the old way was just terrible. If I shut down an ult, I dont want it to be used again 5 seconds later
I dont think anyone has issues with people dying on ult. The issue is that people take umbrage with is when genji's ult ( originally a cast time ult) must die to lose the ult rather than be stunned. Terranguard, talking about bastion in this situation is like comparing an orisa to a symmetra simply because both have deployable shields as part of their kit. Similar in use, but one outclasses the other by a long shot.
02/06/2018 02:30 PMPosted by Slyther0829
If he dies, he 100% looses his ult, just like everyone else.


Cast-time ults are lost even if you dont actually use them, so no its not fair.

This isnt about Genji being killed while his team wiping ult is being used you fool.

[quote]This is just another example of Genji mains not knowing what it's actually fair design because they are used to the handholding hero anime version.


And stuns never stopped his ult halfway through before either, only during the initial cast time.

That cast time being interrupted was the only thing that was removed in exchange for him losing 100% of his ult the moment he presses Q. Obviously that's what I was referencing when I said that if you stun him and his ult doesn't go away, he's still stunned and you can still kill him, thus deleting his ult.

Also, unlike channeled ults, transformation ults are much more reliant on the follow up and not just pressing Q at the right time. Thus your window to prevent him from getting use out of his ult is larger since he needs to not only pull the blade out, but actively hunt people down with it (as opposed to say Reaper who just becomes a bubble of constant damage). Plus you typically can always predict who he's going to go for (coughcoughhealerscough), so it's not like you can't just position yourself ahead of time.

Just another example of people refusing to actually look at how things work and instead hide inside their little bubble of hate.

Also lul at writing off my comment as a "stupid Genji main". Next time look at someone's hours when you plan to pull a card like that.
02/06/2018 03:01 PMPosted by Reignuzuki
Because the old way was just terrible. If I shut down an ult, I dont want it to be used again 5 seconds later
What if Zarya’s ult just disappeared if she dies right as she shoots it? That’s one of the ultimates that takes the longest to charge. If that were the case half the community would start whining.
02/06/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Sam
Cast times exist for a reason - mainly to add more risk reward to some ultimates. I think it's a good thing.

However, I think it's dumb that tracer and Mei have (quite large) cast times. Nothing is more frustrating than watching your projectile poof out of existence. Plus other projectiles like graviton don't have a cast time sooo...


It really feels awkward indeed, but this is a long discussion. Graviton is included in casting time ulties as well, but it's rather difficult to get caught due to her hp and bubbles.

Cast time ulties (except Junkrat's) are "Q" and forget. As soon as you have succeeded to press the "Q" button, the effect will take place at its full effect no matter what you do next. For example, if you succeed to place your pulse bomb, there's no way to unstuck it.

On the other hand, transformation ulties do not guarantee any effect, no matter your timing. You may start the perfect dragonblade and get hooked randomly, just because the time you pressed air-dash/Q, the enemy hog tried to hook a pharah.

What's the pro of ulti reset?
It's much easier to know when your enemies have their ulties charged now. No matter what happened when you were dead, as long as Genji pressed Q, you know when to expect his next ultimate. This is a huge nerf to some transformation ulties, like Genji's, because his blade effectiveness is highly affected on the element of surprise. If you know that Genji will have his ulti charged soon and your zen has got trans, then you just stick with him and wait to laugh.

About Mei and Lucio ulties: Yes, it has a huge cast. However, this ulti needs a respectable time to get its full effect plus you actually need to chase down your frozen enemies to kill them. Also, she has the most defensive kit in the roster. So, I cannot see how it happened for you to use your ulti at the right time, positioning etc and just died/stunned. Perhaps the cast time needs a slight nerf, but nothing special. On the other hand, I can really feel Lucios pain, although I don't even play with him. I agree of having a cast, but he needs to be compensated accordingly. As a dps player, Lucio ulti feels inferior to Zenyattas in many ways. Perhaps a radius increase would be useful to be sure that you "bubble" your flankers or your widow as well.
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Cast-time ults are lost even if you dont actually use them, so no its not fair.

This isnt about Genji being killed while his team wiping ult is being used you fool.

[quote]This is just another example of Genji mains not knowing what it's actually fair design because they are used to the handholding hero anime version.


And stuns never stopped his ult halfway through before either, only during the initial cast time.

That cast time being interrupted was the only thing that was removed in exchange for him losing 100% of his ult the moment he presses Q. Obviously that's what I was referencing when I said that if you stun him and his ult doesn't go away, he's still stunned and you can still kill him, thus deleting his ult.

Also, unlike channeled ults, transformation ults are much more reliant on the follow up and not just pressing Q at the right time. Thus your window to prevent him from getting use out of his ult is larger since he needs to not only pull the blade out, but actively hunt people down with it (as opposed to say Reaper who just becomes a bubble of constant damage). Plus you typically can always predict who he's going to go for (coughcoughhealerscough), so it's not like you can't just position yourself ahead of time.

Just another example of people refusing to actually look at how things work and instead hide inside their little bubble of hate.

Also lul at writing off my comment as a "stupid Genji main". Next time look at someone's hours when you plan to pull a card like that.


Moira would like a word with you. Not only you lose your ult before she even says anything you also can be easily killed while casting the ult because you can't use your other spells (orb, blink) while channeling the ult. Meanwhile Genji keeps his dashes and hops whiles using ult. Talk about risk.
Number of times my ult, as Sombra, has been interrupted since the change: 5

Forum posters: My ult as Ana and Sombra have been interrupted at least 10 times each just today.

Conclusion: Hyperbole.

Also, it was a nice indirect buff to Sombra, and Genji's ult is more inline with Transformation ults as it gives him passive benefits, like all other Transformation ults, and unlike all Cast time ults.

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