Sombra's hack buffs are another power creep

General Discussion
We've seen what certain buffs can do to certain heros. Mercy with a Rez ability became a must-pick, and S2 of OWL will only tell if she's still used. Rez caused a huge balancing problem for her since it was too impactful of an ability.

Junk then got a whole new toy to his utility belt, and became a lethal assassin against any 200 HP hero, which (spoiler alert) is a lot of heros in this game. This became unfun as many think Junk is overtuned, want him gutted, and are calling for unnecessary nerfs.

However with the recent change to hack, I'm already currently fearful of Sombra. If I get caught in an EMP as Pharah then I'm already dropping to the ground since chances are my fuel won't be at 100% when EMP goes off. A Pharah on the ground is a defenseless Pharah, which is a dead Pharah. Second of all, Pharah already has enough counters. The higher up in elo you go, the better the hitscans become, and the less Pharah gets picked. Despite me being in Diamond, I am finding it harder and harder to play her due to the indirect balancing changes that indirectly nerf her.

To those in gold or below, or on consoles, I get that aiming is difficult, and thus Pharah has a natural advantage. However this problem was solved with the addition of Moira. Everyone wanted a no-aim Pharah counter, and they got one. Another indirect nerf for her.

Now the biggest complaint by far is Pharmercy. Thus synergy allows Pharah to be reckless and focus more offensively. Now hack could put an end to this, but no hero should be nerfed due to synergy. Otherwise why hasn't Torb/Sym been nerfed because their synergy is high in low elos. What about pirate ship, which only works on junkertown and is Bastion's only relevancy (more on him later). Pharah by herself is balanced, and this isn't coming from the Pharah main in me, but the fact that I've started playing other heros, like McCree to practice my aim, or how supports now make up most of my playtime after my big 3: Pharah, Junk, Bastion.

Now Pharah becomes a niche hero who isn't picked since Junk have more damage potential, safer ult, and doesn't need a support attached to him to be effective. If this happens then I really only enjoy playing Bastion or Junk. Junk, I'm a little frustrated at since he's seeing too much playtime and I get flamed for no-skill, braindead, etc, for playing him. However Bastion is the next big reason behind my fear of the hack buffs. He's ONLY accepted on junkertown point A, and is usually switched in point B/C when he gets pushed/blown off the payload. Other than that he's another niche hero already, and this hack is already lethal towards him. If a Sombra starts hacking me from behind, there is a strong chance that after I get hacked I'll just become a sitting duck and get killed, especially since I use him outside of pirate ship. And this is with her current hack time, not the buffed hack. That's another nerf to a D-tier hero. Bastion is left to rot since Sombra is far better at shutting people down. Why break a shield when you can just flank behind and disable it before I, a Diamond Bastion player, even have time to react to hack when I'm on on Bastion myself, has time to cancel it via shooting her even with his ridiculous spread and firerate. Bastion then falls into the abyss since he was already forgotten after his rework that was suppose to help him (his tank is papermache due to his IC nerf a year ago).

This is not a fear because 2 of my mains nerfed, but it's a nerf to 2 heros who's balance rests on the edges of balanced, and many other heros will get nerfed as well. Some needed like Tracer and Genji, and others unnecessary like Lucio. If the dual-mine buff for Junkrat taught me anything, it's that introducing counters to Genji, Tracer, or dive as a whole, has horrible repercussions against the rest of the cast of this game. Junk's 2nd mine can pressure Tracer more, but he can kill a Soldier twice as often now. This kind of power creep scares me, not because it hurts the heros I like to play, but because it's slowly turning everyone into a generalist. And it's not going to come down to who runs what counters better, but who runs the more streamlined comp better, which is exactly what dive is currently. Who runs dive the cleanest.

I have wanted buffs for Sombra for a long time, but not at the cost of nerfing a lot of the cast. And I'm not a hypocrite for thinking this, because I didn't want the dual mine buff for Junk either. I didn't want his tire to be faster. I didn't want him to become a generalist. And the post-power creep only proves my point. Now you can run Junk anytime, anywhere. To the mains, this is a buff for him. A buff because now they can use him in situations that didn't favor him.

If/when Pharah and Bastion become too niche like Sym already is, they too will have their mains lobby the devs for buffs. Then they get buffed to fit in with the other generalist heros. They will be seen as powerful heros because they got buffed not because they performed poorly, but because they fell behind the power creep.

I do not want this to happen, but with each passing day people have forgotten what switching means, and it's why I might defend one-tricks against unnecessary harassment and false reporting, but will tell them to switch when they are no longer effective in the fights. I consider myself a fair person, but I see and fear a lot of negitve outcomes while most only see the positive.
Lucio's getting the worst of it.
02/14/2018 07:25 PMPosted by Dummly
Lucio's getting the worst of it.


I agree. She already counters him in the form of his Sound Barrier, and that only got nerfed a few months ago due to the Genji-ult-outcry that made Q reset the ult meter back to 0% despite the ult not going off (due to kills or plain luck, like a lucky flashbang during the Lucio ult animation).

This raises the possibility of "well we can just buff him" but buffing him for the sake of balancing others is what causes a power creep.

Because of these Sombra buffs, Bastion, Pharah, Lucio, and many others are getting nerfed. Just for the sake of indirectly nerfing Genji and Tracer? No, that's not how it should work. That VERY reason is behind the Junkrat buffs.

Junk is now lethal against any 200 HP hero just for the sake of pressuring Genji or Tracer.
02/14/2018 07:07 PMPosted by PharahHǝntoi
Otherwise why hasn't Torb/Sym been nerfed because their synergy is high in low elos.


Because even with that synergy they have low pickrate and are easy to counterpick while Pharmercy is absolute cancer at all levels of play unless you have a godly widow since they lack a reliable counter.

Also if you think Sombra buffs arent Torb/Sym nerfs you are very very wrong.
02/14/2018 07:30 PMPosted by DVS
I dont get why people are starting to whine on the forums about the PTR changes.

IMO:

Having EMP every team fight >>>>> 10% less spread, 1.5 miliseconds faster to hack, and 5 more seconds on her trans cooldown
Because even with that synergy they have low pickrate


But an inflated winrate. Winrate > Pickrate.

02/14/2018 07:30 PMPosted by Ranulf
while Pharmercy is absolute cancer at all levels of play unless you have a godly widow since they lack a reliable counter.


Not really. She's only dominate in lower tiers since nobody can kill her out of the sky. Higher up elos have the McCree, Soldier, and even Dva to burst her down. The wet dream of Widow countering Pharmercy only exists in elos below Diamond. Above that she has many counters, and just adding another no-skill counter hurts her viability as a hero as a whole. Mercy enables Pharah, and yet Pharah is taking the brute hate, which is unacceptable.

02/14/2018 07:30 PMPosted by Ranulf
Also if you think Sombra buffs arent Torb/Sym nerfs you are very very wrong.


You need better reading comprehension. The context of bring up Torb/Sym was synergy, because Pharmercy is what's causing the problems, not Pharah. Nerfing Pharah for the sake of nerfing Pharmercy is like nerfing Sym because she has an inflated winrate.
02/14/2018 07:34 PMPosted by DVS
02/14/2018 07:30 PMPosted by DVS
I dont get why people are starting to whine on the forums about the PTR changes.

IMO:

Having EMP every team fight >>>>> 10% less spread, 1.5 miliseconds faster to hack, and 5 more seconds on her trans cooldown


Because relegating Sombra to be a 5-6 stack or high ladder (Diamond+) hero is just bad design.

02/14/2018 07:29 PMPosted by PharahHǝntoi
Because of these Sombra buffs, Bastion, Pharah, Lucio, and many others are getting nerfed.


You literally cant say that Lucio is ''getting nerfed'' while Sombra is actually getting less EMPs with the PTR changes in the very same post. Its hypocrecy.

And Bastion is a team dependant hero already all it needs is to have someone covering his back in any way... which is what Bastion comps do already.
Will be nice killing all these new sombras thinking they will be op and have no counter play
10% less spread, 1.5 miliseconds faster to hack, and 5 more seconds on her trans cooldown


[hack] Now disables the following abilities:
Genji — Cyber-agility
Hanzo — Wall Climb
Pharah — Hover Jets
Lucio — Healing Boost and Speed Boost (turns off current song entirely), Wall Ride
Mercy — Angelic Descent

That's worse that an EMP every fight.
02/14/2018 07:41 PMPosted by PharahHǝntoi
10% less spread, 1.5 miliseconds faster to hack, and 5 more seconds on her trans cooldown


[hack] Now disables the following abilities:
Genji — Cyber-agility
Hanzo — Wall Climb
Pharah — Hover Jets
Lucio — Healing Boost and Speed Boost (turns off current song entirely), Wall Ride
Mercy — Angelic Descent

That's worse that an EMP every fight.


Those things should have been included in her hack since her release.
Hack felt very underwhelming when you would risk your life to hack a target only for the hacked enemy to kill you regardless because hack didnt do much to them.
02/14/2018 07:38 PMPosted by PharahHǝntoi
But an inflated winrate. Winrate > Pickrate.


Their winrate is inflated because they are point A heroes that get switched if they lose that point. The mayority of the matches they finish are those they win, which is why they have inflated winrates.

Not really. She's only dominate in lower tiers since nobody can kill her out of the sky. Higher up elos have the McCree, Soldier, and even Dva to burst her down. The wet dream of Widow countering Pharmercy only exists in elos below Diamond. Above that she has many counters, and just adding another no-skill counter hurts her viability as a hero as a whole. Mercy enables Pharah, and yet Pharah is taking the brute hate, which is unacceptable.


None of those heroes counter Pharmercy without their ults, and relegating counterplay to ''kill them with an AoE nuke/instakill/aimbot ult'' is ludicrous.

''Above that she has many counters,'' who? Aside Widow and Soldier, who, when 66% of the roster cant realistically kill a lone Phara after her fuel buff?

02/14/2018 07:38 PMPosted by PharahHǝntoi
You need better reading comprehension. The context of bring up Torb/Sym was synergy, because Pharmercy is what's causing the problems, not Pharah. Nerfing Pharah for the sake of nerfing Pharmercy is like nerfing Sym because she has an inflated winrate.


You need to stop editing your posts to erase your own words before coming to anyone saying they need better reasing comprehension because you literally said ''If Sombra buffs are Pharmercy nerfs, why arent TorbMetra being nerfed''.

The more I read your post the more I see a salty Pharah main that is using badly constructed arguments and other heroes to pity party against the Sombra buffs.
Because relegating Sombra to be a 5-6 stack or high ladder (Diamond+) hero is just bad design.


And nerfing Pharah because Pharmercy destoys plebs who cant aim in low ladder (Diamond-) is just bad balance.

02/14/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Ranulf
You literally cant say that Lucio is ''getting nerfed'' while Sombra is actually getting less EMPs with the PTR changes in the very same post. Its hypocrecy.


No, because you're focusing on what she's losing, not on what she's gaining. Check up on the patch notes and you'll realize that she's getting more utility outside of EMP.

Like the fact that hack is faster to pull off all because it had counterplay.

Or that hack now disables passives especially on hero's that aren't Genji.

Plus good Sombra knew to hold EMP to deny SB. It didn't matter that she had it every teamfight, it mattered because it was easy to farm. Thus it was up more often to deny SB.

So yes, that is IN FACT a nerf to Lucio.

02/14/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Ranulf
And Bastion is a team dependant hero already all it needs is to have someone covering his back in any way... which is what Bastion comps do already.


4 Hours on Bastion acting like you know how to play him. Nice. You could say that Sombra was also a team-dependent hero who needed a good team to be effective.

I'm terribly sorry that you can't climb out of silver by one-tricking Sym.
02/14/2018 07:41 PMPosted by PharahHǝntoi
...

[hack] Now disables the following abilities:
Genji — Cyber-agility
Hanzo — Wall Climb
Pharah — Hover Jets
Lucio — Healing Boost and Speed Boost (turns off current song entirely), Wall Ride
Mercy — Angelic Descent

That's worse that an EMP every fight.


Those things should have been included in her hack since her release.
Hack felt very underwhelming when you would risk your life to hack a target only for the hacked enemy to kill you regardless because hack didnt do much to them.


Says who?

Obviously not Blizzard because if true then it would have been added a week after her release.

You just wanted it to counter passives. Against Genji, it's good because it can finally shut him down. Against Pharah, and she'll just be pushed back down into f-tier like she was before her buff that allowed her to stay in the air.

Why would it be an oversight when Pharah literally got the opposite of you're proposal a few months after Sombra.

I don't buy it.
Always funny seeing players go nut because they'll have a new counter.
02/14/2018 07:47 PMPosted by PharahHǝntoi
I'm terribly sorry that you can't climb out of silver by one-tricking Sym.


I literally dont play ranked beyond like, twice a month what makes you think ''I cant'' climb out of silver lmao

02/14/2018 07:47 PMPosted by PharahHǝntoi
And nerfing Pharah because Pharmercy destoys plebs who cant aim in low ladder (Diamond-) is just bad balance.


Aiming is no valid counterplay because every single character in this game is countered by aiming lmao

02/14/2018 07:52 PMPosted by DevilBurner
Always funny seeing players go nut because they'll have a new counter.


<removed for toxicity>

[Post edited by forum moderator for toxicity.]
Sombra needed something and Pharah could really use another counter. Honestly I still don't think Sombra will be that powerful just because she's not really that good as a damage dealer.
I literally dont play ranked beyond like, twice a month what makes you think ''I cant'' climb out of silver lmao


Because you would've done it already. Twice a month would start adding up over time. Especially with just performance-based SR at your level. If you focus on improving then that's how you rank up, since you lose less SR than you win.

Aka lose 20, gain 24, that's 4 more SR, thus a net climb.

Aiming is no valid counterplay because every single character in this game is countered by aiming lmao


No, they are killed with aiming. A deadly McCree or 76 can pressure a Pharah from the sky, and it's the same reason why the "skybox Pharah" doesn't exist above low elos. Thus it makes them a counter.

You whole idea of countering shows that you couldn't rank up even if you tried. Your mindset is dead-set in silver and it shows via how much you despise Pharah. You literally upplay her when her winrate is in-line with the supports and tanks in silver. Only the DPS have less winrate and that's simply because there is more DPS to chose from.

02/14/2018 08:03 PMPosted by Ranulf
Specially when they are elitist douchebags that go nut when their low counterplay highly abusable badly designed hero who hardcounters 66% of the cast but only has softcounter gets an actual hardcounter.


"I could rank up if I tried' then put your money where your mouth is, because all I see is a wimpy silver sym one-trick who is afraid of comp since they cant switch off their situational main.

Even if Pharah is flawed (which she isn't little silver Sym main), I don't rely on the protection of my main for poor choices in teamwork and team comp. I switch when my team needs me to, unlike you who thinks they can climb out of silver if they tried.

I only turned into an elitist dbag because you ignored any sense of my fairness, and now I'm getting defensive. But thanks for giving me a reason to report you.
Sombra has been in the F-Tier for long enough, give her a break!
02/14/2018 08:17 PMPosted by TheFiend
and Pharah could really use another counter.


No, she really didn't. Pharah should not have to take the brunt of the nerfs (and hate, mind you) just because Mercy enables her.
02/14/2018 08:25 PMPosted by JustJoeKing
Sombra has been in the F-Tier for long enough, give her a break!


If she's getting overbuffed, then no. Look at Junk, do you really want him to have a twin that runs around and disables everything. Right now you're just freedom fighting, but soon you'll come to hate her when you start getting hacked left and right and ponder about counter-play.

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