Moira shouldn't be able to dive Zenyatta solo

General Discussion
Prev 1 3 4 5 10 Next
Land the shots on Zen and Moira should never kill you.

Yes I know its 10x easier to lock onto zen and wiggle your mouse while crouch spamming than it is to land 3 shots on a Moira doing so. However on paper Zen wins
I agree with OP. When you say you need to git gud with Zen, here is some math:

Moira's damage per second: 50dps grasp + 50dps orb = 100dps
Moira's self heal 30 hps
Moira's effective healtpool during those 2 seconds: 260HP
Time it takes to kill Zen: 2 seconds
Zen rate of fire: 2.5 seconds

In ideal world with 0 reaction time he has 5 shots to kill her (in reality it's more like 4). Zen alsos loses some time if he tries to apply orb. So let's say he has 4 shots.

4 bodyshots do 184 damage, Moira wins with 76 HP left.
3 body + 1 head do 230 damage, Moira wins with 30 HP left.
2 body + 2 head is the first scenario Zen wins. So you need 100% accuracy, 50% crit accuracy to stand a chance against her.
3 head also wins.

We can try the same with orb, which is of course easier, but you lose time applying it:
4 bodyshots do 240 damage, Moira wins with 20HP left.
3 body + 1 head is the first scenario Zen wins, So you need 100% accuracy, 25% crit accuracy.
2 headshots also win, if you are able to hit them in succession, otherwise Moira will heal herself enough to kill you.

As you can see, you must git really gud to survive as Zen. As per "your team needs to help you". That might be quite hard in pub matches as your team has 2 seconds to do that. I mained Zen for few seasons and Moira finally made me switch. Now he is my favorite victim when playing Moira as he has practically no chance of surviving.
02/18/2018 08:16 AMPosted by Luca
02/18/2018 08:13 AMPosted by Esayem
...Isn't it widely accepted that PC is much better for aiming? On average accuracy is higher on PC than console.


PC is better, but console is easier.

The skill ceiling on PC is alot higher and the skill floor on console is alot lower.


While how accurate you can be is higher on a mouse you're wrong in saying the skill floor is lower on console if anything it's higher considering the the characters have no movement acceleration and irs the same game as on pc. Also the aim assist in this game is horrendous. It puts you off more than it helps, thank god there's a slider cos I've never seen any other console shooter with this weird piss poor aa.
02/18/2018 07:57 AMPosted by Luca

So Ana has 135 HPS.

Still lower than Moira's


Since Moira is magically hitting all five team mates at once they each get...40 healing in that orb or about a second of exposure, max.

Meanwhile Ana's nade did a 100 to each and she aint running out of her primary healing.
Wouldn't have thought this thread would still be alive 3 pages in
02/18/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Luca
02/18/2018 07:03 AMPosted by SilverKnight
I’m sorry but if you cannot kill Moira with Zen then you need to work on your aim


Says the person playing on console with aim assist and a 1.46 ED on Zenyatta.


Says the noob with an hour of gametime.
02/18/2018 08:41 AMPosted by SuperMage
Eh, if Moira gets the jump on zen and throws her damage orb it's pretty much game over for the zen. This is on console though. (I'm a master and yes I know how to aim)


Same on PC, unless the Zenyatta already has orbs charged or manages to hit 2 back to back headshots on her while she's discorded without her fading the discord off herself after the first headshot and tanking the next one.
02/18/2018 08:46 AMPosted by Foxxer544
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Says the person playing on console with aim assist and a 1.46 ED on Zenyatta.


Says the noob with an hour of gametime.


Alt account.
...

Says the noob with an hour of gametime.


Alt account.


Then post with your main. Prove that we're wrong in assuming you just have a pure lack of skill.

Because if Moira's winning a 1v1, she's doing her job. Unless you magically couldn't manage to hit her with your orbs.
Zen can't win.
And a MAIN HEALER should not be able to FLANK.
02/18/2018 08:32 AMPosted by Luca
If Moira decides to jump him while his team is on point she shouldn't have an inherent advantage in that 1v1


and as I said before, it's a 6vs6 game and not 1vs1.
It doesn't really mater where heroes fall with in the a 1vs1 fight club like setting. All that maters is their over all team impact when it comes to balance. All you are doing is over looking all the other areas of balance and putting too much focus on: Zen vs Moira 1vs1 when Moira looks to dive him in close.

I mean clearly Moira is going to get a balance pass like every single new hero does at some point, that's not really a big deal. What I don't understand is this refusal of the community to look at over all balance and not just 1vs1 issues.
It's straight up can't see the forest for the trees.

Every hero has dozens, if not 100s of balance issue at play due to the game being 6vs6 with a cast of 25+ heroes. "Yeah whatever, but lets just look at Zen in close fighting support vs support!!! Reeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!". It's just strange to me to keep seeing people throw away or at least over look all ways to balance and just zone in on 1vs1, in a team game of this nature where 1vs1 is near worthless.
Maybe you shouldn't be playing Zen.
02/18/2018 08:56 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
Zen can't win.
And a MAIN HEALER should not be able to FLANK.


Zen is an off-healer
Moira is a main healer with the primary design of Strong healing with the side of DPS in exchange for no utility for the team. She has sustainability for herself but not much for her team outside of healing.

Also, Moira is not supposed to be weak against flankers, so theres that as well.
02/18/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Blam320
...

Alt account.


Then post with your main. Prove that we're wrong in assuming you just have a pure lack of skill.

Because if Moira's winning a 1v1, she's doing her job. Unless you magically couldn't manage to hit her with your orbs.


Main is suspended.

Moira's job isn't to take a 1v1 with whoever she pleases and come out ontop.

She not only is able to easily defend herself when dived (which is fine) but she also can dive onto whoever she wants and come out ontop of most 1v1s due to having an inherent advantage or ability to retreat, heal orb herself and go right back in on an already chipped down target.

Defending herself with her kit is OK.

Being able to dive people isn't.
In a 1v1 scenario it's quite simple.

From far away I'd say Moira has the upper hand, considering her awkward hit box and easier to use weapon she can dodge several shots and Zen only has a few seconds till it's all over.

Up close and personal? Zen easily wins if he can aim well.

In the end it's a stupid argument considering this fight shouldn't ever be happening.
02/18/2018 09:03 AMPosted by JimmyCarter
In a 1v1 scenario it's quite simple.

From far away I'd say Moira has the upper hand, considering her awkward hit box and easier to use weapon she can dodge several shots and Zen only has a few seconds till it's all over.

Up close and personal? Zen easily wins if he can aim well.


Even up close Moira wins, if Moira throws her orb Zenyatta needs to hit a perfect Discord+Headshot then either have Moira not fade and hit another or manage to hit 2 after the fade (Due to discord being removed) Which isn't realistic on a hero that has a head which changes ZIP Codes when she alternates from pressing W to S and then spamming crouch + AD
02/18/2018 09:05 AMPosted by Luca
02/18/2018 09:03 AMPosted by JimmyCarter
In a 1v1 scenario it's quite simple.

From far away I'd say Moira has the upper hand, considering her awkward hit box and easier to use weapon she can dodge several shots and Zen only has a few seconds till it's all over.

Up close and personal? Zen easily wins if he can aim well.


Even up close Moira wins, if Moira throws her orb Zenyatta needs to hit a perfect Discord+Headshot then either have Moira not fade and hit another or manage to hit 2 after the fade (Due to discord being removed) Which isn't realistic on a hero that has a head which changes ZIP Codes when she alternates from pressing W to S and then spamming crouch + AD


You're always assuming a perfect scenario in the sense that Moira will always have her orb available the second she encounters Zen.

It's only fair to assume the perfect scenario in regards to Zen landing at least one or two head shots.

Face it, this match up is too close to start calling your theory law.
I can solo a D.Va as Moira so...
02/18/2018 09:10 AMPosted by JimmyCarter
You're always assuming a perfect scenario in the sense that Moira will always have her orb available the second she encounters Zen.


What Moira dives someone without her orb?

My issue is with the fact while excelling at fighting off flankers that dive her she's just as good at diving on enemies, if it was a simple duel of Zenyatta sees Moira, Moira sees Zenyatta, they shoot eachother during a fight that's happening I'd be fine with Moira winning, my issue is she herself can dive on him whenever she wants to.

Her kit should be to defend her from flankers, not to allow her to dive onto whatever enemy squishy she wants.

02/18/2018 09:10 AMPosted by JimmyCarter
It's only fair to assume the perfect scenario in regards to Zen landing at least one or two head shots.


The scenario is perfect for Moira, she's the one diving, if she's going to dive a Zenyatta without her orb up then she will lose, that'd be like a Winston diving in without his bubble or a Tracer triple blinking in to pulse bomb without recall.
Zenyatta gets destroyed by Genji, Sombra, Tracer and every Tank going in 1v1 but apparently Moira is too much for you?

I suggest getting better at aiming.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum