Which hero is more broken: Moira or Genji.

General Discussion
02/20/2018 06:29 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
I main Genji on qp never hit someone who was behind me with swift strike it must be a ping problem.


Its been proven on video that this is reproducible on low ping. That and Genji's ludicrous deflect hitbox are both well documented.

Genji's SS extends a full body behind his location.

His kit is literally the strongest in game. His ult is literally the strongest damaging ult in game. This is widely acknowledged as true. Claiming his kit is weak is like claiming widowmaker headshots do low damage.

He is only hampered by his relatively low sustained dps at mid range.
Both are fine.

But if you ARE talking about deflect however, boy oh boy have you not seen the megathread?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759150839?page=1
genji. moira's escape can be baited. genji has an escape and a cancellable, reflecting invincibility field with huge radius
02/20/2018 06:24 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
Moira clearly and even your concept is fallacious you can't compare a dps with a healer .
Call me back when Moira will have more counters than Genji (he got a ton infact).
Genji have a weak kit and an okay ult
Moira got a op kit with an okay ult.
But that still make nosense.
It's just like asking who is the most op between Tracer and Winston


I spat out my coffee reading that

Genji has at most THREE characters who can make him worry. Winston, Sombra, and Symmetra.

Any character with bust at all can deal with Moira; Even Ana, one of the worst characters in the game in terms of winrate can beat a Moira.

And their kits?!

Genji has faster base movement speed, a wall climb, double jump, deflect that can stop ANY projectile and melee; even ults, a dash that can be used as an escape or engage, ability resets that no-other character has, and one of the best ultimates in the game that is used to win fights all the way up to the pro scene; that can only be stopped by killing him or delayed with CC

Moira has normal movement speed, a passive life steal for 30 hp, 50 damage 20 metre range attack (Meaning only Reinhardt, Mei, Symmetra, and Zarya have lower ranges), deals 0 damage to barriers, an escape ability that lasts 0.8 seconds, a 10 second cooldown that can pop a 200 MAX damage orb or 300 MAX health orb, it has an attach range of 5 metres (The same distance characters move if you press a movement key for 1 second, Genji and Tracer the time is lower as they move slightly faster), the damage and healing is SPLIT between people, Ult heals for 140 and does 70 damage; ANY form of CC stops the ult completely

Genji can totally shut down nonmobile characters
Moira can totally shut down hard to hit fast characters

Why is it fair, that Genji can force a Zen or Ana to swap to another support, but a support can't force Genji to swap to another DPS?

People are fine with Pharah making Mei and Reaper 100% pointless in a game, why can't ONE of FIVE supports do that to ONE of EIGHT DPS characters
02/20/2018 06:29 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
I main Genji on qp never hit someone who was behind me with swift strike it must be a ping problem.


Its been proven on video that this is reproducible on low ping. That and Genji's ludicrous deflect hitbox are both well documented.

Genji's SS extends a full body behind his location.

02/20/2018 06:29 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
I main Genji on qp never hit someone who was behind me with swift strike it must be a ping problem.


Its been proven on video that this is reproducible on low ping.

Genji's SS extends a full body behind his location.

02/20/2018 06:32 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
...

His left shoot is Lucio's one but weaker
His right click have 120 dps lowest dps output of all dps and innefective above 3 meters.

That's weak and yes McCree got a weak kit too


So much is wrong in the above statement.

His right click has 168 DPS. He has no less than 3 movement abilities.

He has deflect, the strongest defensive ability in the game.

He has swift strike, the second best movement ability in the game, right behind blink.

His kit is literally the strongest in game. His ult is literally the strongest damaging ult in game.

He is only hampered by his relatively low sustained dps at mid range.


You can still shoot him when he uses swift strike (even if it's ridiculously hard)
"The community has spoken"

Maybe the loud obnoxious minority. Neither is broken, get good. It always makes me laugh whenever Jeff has to explain this in just about any Developer Update. Just because your little niche of people think a particular hero is overpowered you think everyone feels that way. They know far more than you do, trust me.
02/20/2018 06:32 AMPosted by go123452
Its been proven on video that this is reproducible on low ping. That and Genji's ludicrous deflect hitbox are both well documented.


you do realize that genji's short sword's blade is as long as his arm from shoulder to wrist (not counting the hilt) and the dragon blade is almost as long as he is tall. and the guy can deflect 2000 bullets in 2 seconds. you realize all of this, right?

i mean, i just wanted to make sure

but junkrat spawns bear traps that suck people into them, even out of the air, out of thin air and basically controls his gravity when he mines himself like some sort of alien with telekenesis or something. since we are on the subject of realism and all
02/20/2018 06:42 AMPosted by Uperior
02/20/2018 06:24 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
Moira clearly and even your concept is fallacious you can't compare a dps with a healer .
Call me back when Moira will have more counters than Genji (he got a ton infact).
Genji have a weak kit and an okay ult
Moira got a op kit with an okay ult.
But that still make nosense.
It's just like asking who is the most op between Tracer and Winston


I spat out my coffee reading that

Genji has at most THREE characters who can make him worry. Winston, Sombra, and Symmetra.

Any character with bust at all can deal with Moira; Even Ana, one of the worst characters in the game in terms of winrate can beat a Moira.

And their kits?!

Genji has faster base movement speed, a wall climb, double jump, deflect that can stop ANY projectile and melee; even ults, a dash that can be used as an escape or engage, ability resets that no-other character has, and one of the best ultimates in the game that is used to win fights all the way up to the pro scene; that can only be stopped by killing him or delayed with CC

Moira has normal movement speed, a passive life steal for 30 hp, 50 damage 20 metre range attack (Meaning only Reinhardt, Mei, Symmetra, and Zarya have lower ranges), deals 0 damage to barriers, an escape ability that lasts 0.8 seconds, a 10 second cooldown that can pop a 200 MAX damage orb or 300 MAX health orb, it has an attach range of 5 metres (The same distance characters move if you press a movement key for 1 second, Genji and Tracer the time is lower as they move slightly faster), the damage and healing is SPLIT between people, Ult heals for 140 and does 70 damage; ANY form of CC stops the ult completely

Genji can totally shut down nonmobile characters
Moira can totally shut down hard to hit fast characters

Why is it fair, that Genji can force a Zen or Ana to swap to another support, but a support can't force Genji to swap to another DPS?

People are fine with Pharah making Mei and Reaper 100% pointless in a game, why can't ONE of FIVE supports do that to ONE of EIGHT DPS characters


Genji is weak to all tanks except Orisa he's weak to Moira , and to Mei that's more than 3/4 of the dps and clearly more than Moira
Also, are you a thrower, or just really god awful at this game, BernieSander?
Out of the two it's Genji. But we all know he just needs some tweaks, I wouldn't call him broken, just very strong.

Also why don't more Genji players deflect orbs?
Excuse me what did I just see? How is Genji overpowered? Hes the character with one of the highest if not the highest skill cap. It's not easy to play him, he's very complex and his abilities have little damage if you don't know how to use him.
02/20/2018 06:45 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
02/20/2018 06:42 AMPosted by Uperior
...

I spat out my coffee reading that

Genji has at most THREE characters who can make him worry. Winston, Sombra, and Symmetra.

Any character with bust at all can deal with Moira; Even Ana, one of the worst characters in the game in terms of winrate can beat a Moira.

And their kits?!

Genji has faster base movement speed, a wall climb, double jump, deflect that can stop ANY projectile and melee; even ults, a dash that can be used as an escape or engage, ability resets that no-other character has, and one of the best ultimates in the game that is used to win fights all the way up to the pro scene; that can only be stopped by killing him or delayed with CC

Moira has normal movement speed, a passive life steal for 30 hp, 50 damage 20 metre range attack (Meaning only Reinhardt, Mei, Symmetra, and Zarya have lower ranges), deals 0 damage to barriers, an escape ability that lasts 0.8 seconds, a 10 second cooldown that can pop a 200 MAX damage orb or 300 MAX health orb, it has an attach range of 5 metres (The same distance characters move if you press a movement key for 1 second, Genji and Tracer the time is lower as they move slightly faster), the damage and healing is SPLIT between people, Ult heals for 140 and does 70 damage; ANY form of CC stops the ult completely

Genji can totally shut down nonmobile characters
Moira can totally shut down hard to hit fast characters

Why is it fair, that Genji can force a Zen or Ana to swap to another support, but a support can't force Genji to swap to another DPS?

People are fine with Pharah making Mei and Reaper 100% pointless in a game, why can't ONE of FIVE supports do that to ONE of EIGHT DPS characters


Genji is weak to all tanks except Orisa he's weak to Moira , and to Mei that's more than 3/4 of the dps and clearly more than Moira


Because Genji isn't meant to be a tank killer?

He can fight them, but it's not an EZwin like every other character. They only tank that can negate what Genji's try and do is Winston. Every other tank is too slow, or Genji can just ignore with his kit.

He is SOFT countered by Moira, he can still do his job of killing squishy targets it's just not as easy. He loses more 1v1 BECAUSE her weapon is a beam, so he can't abuse deflect to turn the fight into his favour even if he's losing.

You do know if you wall climb high enough, or swift strike, Mei can't freeze you right? (Well until the PTR buff hits live) Why do you think Mei is NEVER picked against Genji? He can literally avoid EVERYTHING she can do; it's why she's actually getting an anti-mobility buff
02/20/2018 06:47 AMPosted by ButterFarts
Out of the two it's Genji. But we all know he just needs some tweaks, I wouldn't call him broken, just very strong.

Also why don't more Genji players deflect orbs?


because they are hard to deflect despite apparently having a trailer sized deflect hitbox. orbs just seem to fly through deflect wherever it would have deflected a slightly errant junkrat grenade
02/20/2018 06:52 AMPosted by Uperior
02/20/2018 06:45 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
...

Genji is weak to all tanks except Orisa he's weak to Moira , and to Mei that's more than 3/4 of the dps and clearly more than Moira


Because Genji isn't meant to be a tank killer?

He can fight them, but it's not an EZwin like every other character. They only tank that can negate what Genji's try and do is Winston. Every other tank is too slow, or Genji can just ignore with his kit.

He is SOFT countered by Moira, he can still do his job of killing squishy targets it's just not as easy. He loses more 1v1 BECAUSE her weapon is a beam, so he can't abuse deflect to turn the fight into his favour even if he's losing.

You do know if you wall climb high enough, or swift strike, Mei can't freeze you right? (Well until the PTR buff hits live) Why do you think Mei is NEVER picked against Genji? He can literally avoid EVERYTHING she can do; it's why she's actually getting an anti-mobility buff


Countering Genji is not about killing him it's about making him flee without ss it gives you 8 sec of 6v5
Mei is really good as making Genji flee.
Because a Genji who doesn't flank is useless when you are useless you are countered.
What's funny to me is that people dislike them for the same reasons but people can't see past their dps or support tribalism. They are both characters who have very forgiving kits especially when compared to the counterparts for their roles

Genju with his generous deflect and dash hitboxes and Moira with her generous aim hitbox and self heal on right click and low mobility cooldown. Play Ana or Zen and know the pain of having low mobility, no self healing and needing more aiming skill to land hits on targets.

Both of these characters aren't technically overpowered but can be frustrating to play against and could use slight number tweaks so their frustrating aspect isn't so over the top.

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