Common Logic That Some Deny.

General Discussion
Low survivability causes heroes to hide before ulting.

Why does Reaper hide before ulting?
Well, ironically, he can't use shadow step in a fight and not expect to die.

Same for Mercy, if Guardian Angel was reliable enough, which it isn't, she hid as an unhealthy exploit, and used res as her "hehe sorry but I'm back" button.

Same reason McCree is encouraged to hide before using his slow-movement ult?

Same reason Pharah has to sneak in Barrage.

I GENUINELY don't understand whats confusing.
Oh yep OP's a mercy main.

Nothing to see here folks
The dps heroes you mentioned delay joining a team fight until the enemies are distracted. At that point they join the fight and do their job.

Old Mercy avoided the team fight entirely and wanted her entire team to die.
02/19/2018 12:00 PMPosted by Huckleberry
Old Mercy avoided the team fight entirely and wanted her entire team to die.


Old Mercy healed her team till they started dying. I would imagine having 0 hours played as her you wouldn't know how she was used.
What you fail to understand, is that NOT having a support present, to heal people was the reason for people dying. Back when mercy had mas res, you had 2 options.

Either you picked ana or a mercy.

If you had ana, she could have kept your team alive, be a part of it and contribute.

For mercy, She would hide somewhere. Not heal anyone during that time. Cause everyone to die only for the possibility of mas res which most of the time, was immediately shut down by higher level players. Which is why mercy never saw even the slightest bit of usefulness for grandmaster lvl and above.

At least now she's more engaging. She contributes during fights and she doesn't hide somewhere and is actually more viable than before.
Yeah, I LOVE the generalization that many, not all, of the DPS mains put out about Mercy. The BAD Mercy players played "Hide and Rez", the GOOD ones didn't. Not ALL of the videos on YouTube show Mercy doing Hide and Rez do they?
No, they do not. Yet that is what we are ALWAYS accused of. But the Original Post DOES have a point!
1) Reaper, McCree, and often Soldier 76 and Junkrat would hide then pull their Ult to maximize damage to the enemy team.
2) Hanzo just shoots through walls with HIS Ult, basically hiding but not quite.
3) Tracer can ZIP in, drop her mine, then ZIP back out quickly.
4) D.Va can turbo her Meka in for her Ult.

I could go on, but you get the general idea. Yet Mercy, due to a few bad players, had her Ult removed and replaced, then nerfed into the ground.

Just saying that if any DPS hero had been treated THIS harshly, do to a few rotten apples in the bunch, the game would have already folded up tent and no one would be playing anymore. Yet do this to a Healer, and YEAH we can still kill stuff and play...

Ready for the down-votes...
02/19/2018 11:55 AMPosted by Floralwaters
Why does Reaper hide before ulting?


Because Death Blossom -MUST- be abused as an ambush ability. It can be interrupted in several different ways, it has a wide pletora of different counters, and so it must be used with patience, strategy and time, it cannot just be used as soon as it's available like other DPS ultimates. That is just the way Death Blossom and Shadow Step are designed. Even if Reaper had good mobility (which he doesn't have), you would still hide if you want to pull off a successful Death Blossom.
02/19/2018 12:05 PMPosted by Dva
02/19/2018 12:00 PMPosted by Huckleberry
Old Mercy avoided the team fight entirely and wanted her entire team to die.


Old Mercy healed her team till they started dying. I would imagine having 0 hours played as her you wouldn't know how she was used.
I had a quintuple rez as Mercy once, defending point A of Temple of Anubis. I heard about two or three Ultimate callouts from the enemy team, so I knew there were going to be a few deaths whether I was trying to heal them or not. So I did the smart thing and hid on the other side of the arch. Sure enough, a couple more enemy Ultimates were sent in and they wiped all five of my teammates, and again, it would not have made a difference if I had been trying to heal them, I just would have died as well.

So I waited for all that mess to clear up, swooped in and got the easy 5-rez. We hard held point A because they had burned every single Ultimate they had. It was extra sweet because the team had asked me to swap off Mercy at the start of the round. Boy did they feel stupid.
Quoting myself from another thread, just to show that there WERE counters to Mercy (though people often ignored them).
02/19/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Roseblite
02/19/2018 10:26 AMPosted by Alanar
...Can't get mad at him for telling the truth. 5 man rez should never return. Especially given the utter lack of counterplay of 1.0.


Lets see, counter-plays to Mercy 1.0 HUmmmmmm? This was BEFORE she was given temporary invulnerability because more than half the time she would die pulling Rez in the first place.

1) as always KILL the Mercy by:
...A) in the ult
...B) before you pull ult
...C) while she is flying in (Widowmaker/Hanzo mains)

2) AFTER she pulls her Ult by:
... Saving 1 ult to take care of a recently Rezed team. BUT, this took coordination an with one person pulling their Ult, and the other DPS not wanting to be outdone, the other DPS/Tanks would pull their Ults doing all that Showboating.... ummm.. I mean "Hard work" to get the POG.

You blow 3-5 Ults at the same time, not saving any Ults JUST IN CASE of a Rez, then it is YOUR OWN DANG FAULT and your team should be punished for it.

I had this one game, running back from spawn for about the 5th time because my DPS couldn't be bothered to take out the flankers that were targeting me. I come back to where they all are, after 3 people on the enemy team had pulled there Ults at the same time to take out my team. I fly in to the middle of them and pull an absolutely PERFECT 5 man Rez, it was BEAUTIFUL!!!
Anyway, everyone knows how small a Tracer bomb is right? This one VERY smart Tracer threw her bomb into the middle of us and my 5 man Rez turned into a 6 man wipe. QUITE DESERVINGLY, the Tracer got PoG.

So don't you DARE say there were "No Counters to Mercy Rez" because there sure were before, during, AND AFTER.
LOVE IT, I get downvoted SHOWING that Mercy 1.0 COULD be countered. Not wanting to hear anything but what you want to hear much? You only listen to phrases like "All Mercy players played "Hide and Rez"," when even the evidence on YouTube proves that to be false.
02/19/2018 12:12 PMPosted by Reaper
02/19/2018 11:55 AMPosted by Floralwaters
Why does Reaper hide before ulting?


Because Death Blossom -MUST- be abused as an ambush ability. It can be interrupted in several different ways, it has a wide pletora of different counters, and so it must be used with patience, strategy and time, it cannot just be used as soon as it's available like other DPS ultimates. That is just the way Shadow Step is designed. Even if Reaper had good mobility (which he doesn't have), you would still hide if you want to pull off a successful Death Blossom.


Yes, it must, or it WILL be countered. What was one way it could be countered?
Mercy avoiding your Ult then pulling HER Ult to bring everyone back. I did not say Hiding from your Ult, because getting clear or being clear of it is not hiding. Now you, and other HEAVY killing Ults have one less defense against them. An, quite honestly, many of Mercy 1.0 Rezes were Tempo Rezes of 1 to 3 Heroes, not Huge Rezes of 4-5 Heroes. But that doesn't play to the developers excuse to completely Rework Mercy, so it isn't talked about.

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