Pharah Problems

General Discussion
02/20/2018 05:29 AMPosted by ZekeShining
02/20/2018 05:21 AMPosted by Zhanrock

You counter only things slower than her in midair, like zeny, Doomfist as he can't reliably hit combo you in the air, and things that can't effectively fight back ( and probably shouldn't try anyway, as their teammates do it better) like lucio or mercy. Bastion or torb can literally just redeploy their setup 90% of the time, and torb has bigger problems than just taking rockets to his setup location.


So you are complaining about the game having 4 characters that counter you?
The horror Hanzo mains should feel!

I've got an idea. If you see a bastion, don't fly arround like he wasn't there :)
These characters are meant to limit your air-space.
If the enemy sees you as pharah and doesn't try to do it, then it's their doomfall.
If you have limited air-space but insistently fly arround like if you were free, then it's your own fault.
No !@#$ sherlock that's why I said if they have team support, a la a reinhardt or orisa wall, no pharah otherwise would just dive headfirst into a bastion they already knew was there.
She doesn’t need help closing distance. A smart Pharah will get as close as possible without coming into her counters’ line of sight and then jump jet+concussive blast her way right into their faces. With practice you’ll land the first shot, seeing as they don’t know where you’re coming from and won’t be paying attention. This bounces them into the air, temporarily limiting their mobility. The next shot is a kill.

Also, if you don’t have at least a support keeping an eye on you... what are you doing?
02/20/2018 05:38 AMPosted by Spicybread
She doesn’t need help closing distance. A smart Pharah will get as close as possible without coming into her counters’ line of sight and then jump jet+concussive blast her way right into their faces. With practice you’ll land the first shot, seeing as they don’t know where you’re coming from and won’t be paying attention. This bounces them into the air, temporarily limiting their mobility. The next shot is a kill.

Also, if you don’t have at least a support keeping an eye on you... what are you doing?
playing your average comp game below GM, what, you actually get useful teammates when you play?
Pharah is super OP on console
02/20/2018 05:24 AMPosted by Fladkat
02/20/2018 05:21 AMPosted by Zhanrock
...
Bruh.
If you think you can leadshot reliably at long range distances the people you're shooting are straight up trash.

You counter only things slower than her in midair, like zeny, Doomfist as he can't reliably hit combo you in the air, and things that can't effectively fight back ( and probably shouldn't try anyway, as their teammates do it better) like lucio or mercy. Bastion or torb can literally just redeploy their setup 90% of the time, and torb has bigger problems than just taking rockets to his setup location.

So what I'm getting here, is you want to be able to shoot rockets at people, far away from their reach.

Of course it should be hard to hit rockets are long ranges. You have no damage fall off whatsoever.

The only actual counter you have at that range, is a Widowmaker.


The splash damage doing virtually nothing unless you hit a pseudo direct is easily the same effect as damage falloff for her as again, the projectiles are extremely easy to dodge unless you are point blank, at which point mcree destroys you anyway, and most DPS in masters+ will "Just click heads".

So you are complaining about the game having 4 characters that counter you?
The horror Hanzo mains should feel!


No champ, pharah beats about 4, 5 if you count the ability to re-direct rein's shield, but what was the last time when relevant to a position with a rein camp...
Pharah always has high ground advantage, just by that she doesn't deserve any buffs
02/20/2018 06:17 AMPosted by Kalzy
Pharah always has high ground advantage, just by that she doesn't deserve any buffs


Literally her biggest weakness as she moves slower midair and has less room to airstrafe with the largest hitbox next to roadhog...
Pharah is the last hero who should receive any buffs. Her design provides unhealthy and frustrating gameplay experiences. It's amazing Blizzard has been turning a blind eye to her for so long.

What she needs is a rework, not buffs.
Everyone on the forums who thinks that Pharah is strong doesn't play Pharah.

Honestly, it's a waste of time getting better at Pharah. Without Mercy pocketing Pharah at all times, the hero contributes less than Junkrat when spamming and getting close to enemies means dying. Now that we have Moira, Pharah's spam damage is even less threatening. All Pharah accomplishes is denying some hero choices for the enemy team. Every fight starts with pointless duel with hitscan characters, unlike some other heroes Pharah can't act freely.
02/20/2018 07:52 AMPosted by Piltmannen
Everyone on the forums who thinks that Pharah is strong doesn't play Pharah.

Honestly, it's a waste of time getting better at Pharah. Without Mercy pocketing Pharah at all times, the hero contributes less than Junkrat when spamming and getting close to enemies means dying. Now that we have Moira, Pharah's spam damage is even less threatening. All Pharah accomplishes is denying some hero choices for the enemy team. Every fight starts with pointless duel with hitscan characters, unlike some other heroes Pharah can't act freely.


This is kind of my point, most of the responses had no rebuttal to counterpoints made, just anecdotes about single, one-off play experiences..

02/20/2018 06:48 AMPosted by Rivini
Pharah is the last hero who should receive any buffs. Her design provides unhealthy and frustrating gameplay experiences. It's amazing Blizzard has been turning a blind eye to her for so long.

What she needs is a rework, not buffs.

How would you rework her then, as long as she can fly and has something fun to do / allows me to compensate for the lack of a 120+ hz monitor, I wouldn't care.
Oh Pharah
02/20/2018 07:59 AMPosted by Zhanrock
02/20/2018 07:52 AMPosted by Piltmannen
Everyone on the forums who thinks that Pharah is strong doesn't play Pharah.

Honestly, it's a waste of time getting better at Pharah. Without Mercy pocketing Pharah at all times, the hero contributes less than Junkrat when spamming and getting close to enemies means dying. Now that we have Moira, Pharah's spam damage is even less threatening. All Pharah accomplishes is denying some hero choices for the enemy team. Every fight starts with pointless duel with hitscan characters, unlike some other heroes Pharah can't act freely.


This is kind of my point, most of the responses had no rebuttal to counterpoints made, just anecdotes about single, one-off play experiences..

02/20/2018 06:48 AMPosted by Rivini
Pharah is the last hero who should receive any buffs. Her design provides unhealthy and frustrating gameplay experiences. It's amazing Blizzard has been turning a blind eye to her for so long.

What she needs is a rework, not buffs.

How would you rework her then, as long as she can fly and has something fun to do / allows me to compensate for the lack of a 120+ hz monitor, I wouldn't care.


She has the same problem as McCree: her weapon effectiveness drops off dramatically as range increases, but her ginormous hitbox and unarmored 200hp makes her melt quickly at close range.

So fix one or the other. Either armor her, make her hitbox less of a joke. Or remove the splash damage reduction from her rockets, make them like Junkrats grenados
She doesn't need to shoot her rockets any faster or move faster, that would break her as a character considering she has aerial mobility and most characters have fall off damage after a certain distance, and being smart with your boosters can certainly have you flying higher than most characters' weapons reach (Except with maybe Widowmaker). You say she isn't strong but even players on OWL choose to use another Pharah or Widow to take out an enemy Pharah, especially one that is pocketed by heals. From what I can see, you haven't played many hours of any hitscan in comparison to Pharah, so your "Oh but they can shoot her or Mercy down so easily" is baseless. It's never fun to go against a Pharah being pocketed by both a Mercy and Zenyatta.
I would agree with you two that the design in this game is rather awful. It's less dynamic and skill-based than TF1, because everything is a hard counter.

McCree v Pharah is not even a close battle - it's a fight solely based on your team's positioning. If the Pharah's team is positioning to support her more than the McCree, it's more or less even - but random. If McCree's team is positioning elsewhere, to support, for instance, their own Pharah, then McCree should win every encounter.

This game is basically checkers, in that sense. The mechanical skill required is mind-numbingly low, and it's not even satisfying to know the animation timing for a flashbang, or to win a McCree 1v1, or anything.

Stop buying blizzard products. They only occasionally luck into doing something well - money and prestige are all they have going for them, at this point.
02/20/2018 05:07 AMPosted by Fladkat

I don't understand why you're bringing McCree into this. He's supposedly a counter to Pharah (supposedly -- his range is ridiculously short).

It'd be like compare Junkrat to Pharah given they both do 120 damage on direct hits. Apples and oranges.

You keep mentioning non direct hits. Then learn to bloody hit your rockets instead.


Pharah has so much counterplay that your team should never be without a strong counter. Widowmaker, McCree, Soldier, D.Va all counter her pretty hard. Your team will basically never be without one of those, and a good one makes Pharah VERY BAD. Her kit is extremely basic and bad, but is made up for by flight, but using that flight makes you very vulnerable to these other heroes and liable to die. If you see a Pharah dominating, it's less that the Pharah is good and more that the other team hasn't done anything about it.

Like, Junkrat is supposedly hard countered by Pharah, but that's completely false. Junkrat in a vacuum loses to Pharah, but Junkrat backed up by any of these counters still beats out the Pharah comp.
02/20/2018 09:01 AMPosted by siennarena
She doesn't need to shoot her rockets any faster or move faster, that would break her as a character considering she has aerial mobility and most characters have fall off damage after a certain distance, and being smart with your boosters can certainly have you flying higher than most characters' weapons reach (Except with maybe Widowmaker). You say she isn't strong but even players on OWL choose to use another Pharah or Widow to take out an enemy Pharah, especially one that is pocketed by heals. From what I can see, you haven't played many hours of any hitscan in comparison to Pharah, so your "Oh but they can shoot her or Mercy down so easily" is baseless. It's never fun to go against a Pharah being pocketed by both a Mercy and Zenyatta.

If both of their healers are focusing Pharah, you should have a D.Va on her not to kill her, but to harass/shield her out while your team rolls the healer-less enemy team. There are good reasons her pick rate are so low.
All you need to do is learn her projectiles. She is very similar to the soldier from TF2. And let me tell you that if you encounter a soldier who can predict and direct his rockets, its scary as hell to fight him.

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