Moira isn't balanced but she isn't exactly OP either

General Discussion
Some Warnings:
Wall of text,
I am a genji main,
Moira a is my second or third most played hero, I enjoy her and don't want her to bet gutted,
I just want to raise her skill floor

Yes I'm a genji main. And I'm not making this post because "I'm just mad Genji has a counter now"
I feel that she is too powerful and I'm not biased against her, after all she's my second or third most played hero. I don't think that supports shouldn't be able to protect themselves but it's just that she excels at that... and everything else. For example she can do much more healing than heroes like Lucio and zenyatta while at the same time doing more damage than any other support hero(Except symm) and she has unparalleled capabilities in 1v1 engaments. I normally wouldn't have a problem with this but the thing is she can do all of these extremely well. For example mercy excells at healing, but as a result can't defend herself. zenyatta doesn't have very much healing potential but can do high damage. Another thing is that she can do what these supports do pretty much better while at the same time not really requiring much mechanical skill. For example Genji, Hanzo and widow are high skilled characters that if mastered can have a large impact on the game, where as Moira can do pretty much anything without even having to aim. Apparently people think that Moira's dps is low which I guess technically it is very low but when paired with her damage orb and her fade and life steal from both primary fire and orb, it is literally impossible to duel her unless ur playing a hero that can one hit her before she self heals. Plus the fact that she can just fade as soon as she gets low on Health. Some people might disagree but playing a flanker like genji or tracer actually takes skill, and when a Moira kills me by "holding down LMB+E" I don't feel like she beat me due to skill, She got the kill because she ran in, orbed and held down LMB and unless I can kill her extremely fast I get melted.
Anyway coming from someone who plays Moira a lot in comp, I don't want her to be gutted like doomfist. I just feel that she does what every support does better(more heals, more dps, more mobility, more suvivabilty) without taking much skill to use. Just my thoughts and opinions.
Discuss
My opinion? Moira is the same as Lucio. She just kinda dies after the fight since she has too much mobility to take out in a 1v1 most of the time.

Otherwise, take out the zens and immobile squishies in the fight first.
Or burst down tanks and farm your ult and kill everyone with blade.

And a moira that doesnt know when to disengage will find herself feeding quite often, so yes. She requires gamesens.
There's basically a big split between DPS players thinking supports shouldn't be able to protect themselves and everyone else thinking it's fine if a support can protect itself.
02/14/2018 11:55 PMPosted by DirtyWeeb
I don't think that supports shouldn't be able to protect themselves but it's just that she excels at that... and everything else.
what
02/14/2018 11:55 PMPosted by DirtyWeeb
can do much more healing than heroes like Lucio and zenyatta while at the same time doing more damage than any other support hero
50dps. max is at 100 dps. and this isn't even burst.
02/14/2018 11:55 PMPosted by DirtyWeeb
she has unparalleled capabilities in 1v1 engaments
no arguments there, except when she's dealing against burst damage. she just has high sustain
02/14/2018 11:55 PMPosted by DirtyWeeb
Another thing is that she can do what these supports do pretty much better while at the same time not really requiring much mechanical skill.
tacking isn't a skill now?and here i thought the mechanical skill for tracer was tracking
02/14/2018 11:55 PMPosted by DirtyWeeb
Apparently people think that Moira's dps is low which I guess technically it is very low but when paired with her damage orb and her fade and life steal from both primary fire and orb, it is literally impossible to duel her unless ur playing a hero that can one hit her before she self heals.
why is it so bad for a healer to have good self sustain? she doesn't even offer her team any utility outside of healing. she practically punishes those that out of position/ or aren't with the team. group up and her damage practically turns into trash damage
02/14/2018 11:55 PMPosted by DirtyWeeb
Plus the fact that she can just fade as soon as she gets low on Health.
like i said. what's wrong with a support that you don't have to literally babysit. people keep complaining that supports are boring and that are too dependent on the team, and the second they get a healer that's independent they complain about her?
02/14/2018 11:55 PMPosted by DirtyWeeb
Some people might disagree but playing a flanker like genji or tracer actually takes skill, and when a Moira kills me by "holding down LMB+E" I don't feel like she beat me due to skill, She got the kill because she ran in, orbed and held down LMB and unless I can kill her extremely fast I get melted.
you can easily maneuver around the orb (unless you're inside a room). her alt fire breaks when she no longer has line of sight. genji has vertical mobility which moira doesnt. and tracer has way better mobility than her.
02/14/2018 11:55 PMPosted by DirtyWeeb
Anyway coming from someone who plays Moira a lot in comp,
i guess she is your third most played. but seriously, one hour of moira gameplay
According to overbuff, Moira has the highest pick rate in all ranks except bronze and silver(which she still maintains 2nd and 3rd) so I guess we've moved from mercy meta to Moira meta
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes
02/15/2018 12:09 AMPosted by DirtyWeeb
According to overbuff, Moira has the highest pick rate in all ranks except bronze and silver(which she still maintains 2nd and 3rd) so I guess we've moved from mercy meta to Moira meta
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes
Ana is still in a bad place. Lucio got mobility-creeped and suffered the most from the ult charge changes months ago. Mercy's ult isn't engaging or rewarding. Hmmm. I wonder which support people are going to flock over. I mean, it's not like there's only 5 healers with 60% of the roster people are reluctant to pick. Oh wait.
02/15/2018 12:09 AMPosted by DirtyWeeb
According to overbuff, Moira has the highest pick rate in all ranks except bronze and silver(which she still maintains 2nd and 3rd) so I guess we've moved from mercy meta to Moira meta


Well since you require a healer, there's always going to be a meta featuring at least one healer. Seriously there's only 5 healers to choose from and Ana sucks at dive, so it's really more like 4.
I'm not exactly calling for a nerf, just saying that she shouldn't be able to do better than the rest of the supports without being mechanically taxing
02/14/2018 11:59 PMPosted by Tomduhtrain
There's basically a big split between DPS players thinking supports shouldn't be able to protect themselves and everyone else thinking it's fine if a support can protect itself.

I disagree with this simply because "being able to defend themself" is completely misused in the this context. I play Lucio, Zen, Ana and Moira (I'm a flex, started out as a support main and branched out) and there is none of the 3 first mentioned that can't "defend themselves", the fact that people refer to Moira as a support that can defend herself simply because her weapon takes close to no mechanical skill what so ever is disturbing to me.
It's simply a matter of defending yourself with effort or doing it without it, and apparently for people who main support, without effort is the only way that works.

Lucio is one of the best heroes to peel and defend his support partner.

Zenyatta can frag out if the two supports work together, especially if it's Mercy. He more or less can't die while being pocketed and he can pocket her as well.

Ana can pretty much anyone or at least take them out of the fight but just like anythin else with Ana, it requires mechanical skill.

And then there's Moira, basically the Junkrat of the support category. So effective while being mind numbingly easy to play, this character is actually easier to play than Ana during her glory days in tripple tank META where she basically just stood right behind her tanks and pumped healing into them.
The resource management for her is easy to manage and out of all the supports, she takes the least amount of any type of skill in game.
02/15/2018 12:16 AMPosted by DirtyWeeb
I'm not exactly calling for a nerf, just saying that she shouldn't be able to do better than the rest of the supports without being mechanically taxing


Winston is currently way better then zarya yet still much more effective so I don't really see it.
Moira must trade off healing in order to do damage.

She is powerful, yes

But she is like symmetra except viable

The only way to fix the problem of her outpreforming other supports is:

buff the other supports (support meta)
nerf moira (not make her a good hero anymore)
02/15/2018 12:09 AMPosted by DirtyWeeb
According to overbuff, Moira has the highest pick rate in all ranks except bronze and silver(which she still maintains 2nd and 3rd) so I guess we've moved from mercy meta to Moira meta
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes


Right now, there are 3 accepted healers in this game
In some teams picking Mercy is trolling, simliar to picking Hanzo or Widow in gold ranks (other ppl might just dont care, you actually have a higher chance to have ppl who dont care if youre a Mercy main).. people will tilt at you and throwe the game, want you to be reported just for picking Mercy
Ana is hardcountered by barriers. A fundamental basic of tanking in this game hardcounters her. So playing her takes quite a lot skill and most people just dont have that skill

Zen and Lucio are off healer, you can run both but a lot of teams will have problems due to low healing

So, all support-options left for your standard-comp is Lucio + Moira or Zen + Moira
Of course her pickrate is somewhat high then

Btw, Mercys pickrate before this rework (and even before people started to call her OP (9 months after her last buff)) was at 11% I think. Moira is just popular and as I said there is not much you can pick when only 3/5 healers are viable in the communitys opinion

02/15/2018 12:16 AMPosted by DirtyWeeb
I'm not exactly calling for a nerf, just saying that she shouldn't be able to do better than the rest of the supports without being mechanically taxing

She needs more mechanical skill than Mercy or Lucio
She needs more gamesense than Zen
Moira is the best support to be against a Dive, so yeah. She honestly would have been Meta upon release if Mercy wasn't a God at the time.
02/15/2018 12:20 AMPosted by Avian
02/14/2018 11:59 PMPosted by Tomduhtrain
There's basically a big split between DPS players thinking supports shouldn't be able to protect themselves and everyone else thinking it's fine if a support can protect itself.

I disagree with this simply because "being able to defend themself" is completely misused in the this context. I play Lucio, Zen, Ana and Moira (I'm a flex, started out as a support main and branched out) and there is none of the 3 first mentioned that can't "defend themselves", the fact that people refer to Moira as a support that can defend herself simply because her weapon takes close to no mechanical skill what so ever is disturbing to me.
It's simply a matter of defending yourself with effort or doing it without it, and apparently for people who main support, without effort is the only way that works.

Lucio is one of the best heroes to peel and defend his support partner.

Zenyatta can frag out if the two supports work together, especially if it's Mercy. He more or less can't die while being pocketed and he can pocket her as well.

Ana can pretty much anyone or at least take them out of the fight but just like anythin else with Ana, it requires mechanical skill.

And then there's Moira, basically the Junkrat of the support category. So effective while being mind numbingly easy to play, this character is actually easier to play than Ana during her glory days in tripple tank META where she basically just stood right behind her tanks and pumped healing into them.
The resource management for her is easy to manage and out of all the supports, she takes the least amount of any type of skill in game.
Thank u, u beautiful person
It feels like Moira is where support heroes should be. Great at healing, decent at DPS but not enough to outclass other dps heroes. Capable of high mobility and impacting the game in multiple ways. And with a rewarding skill ceiling/floor ratio that isn't impossible to climb but isn't super easy either.

Basically Moira's state is balanced, but this balance has kinda shined a spotlight on how bad the Support Roster has become. She's the bar standard but the rest of the supports fell from the bar a long time ago due to various nerfs for them, and buffs for dps and tanks.

Similar problems happen in other games, especially ones with expanding rosters. Older heroes tend to just not play to a standard the rest of the game has moved onto. Only in this case, it's the supports, plus Reinhardt, Mei, Torbjorn, and Bastion.
02/15/2018 12:24 AMPosted by Sinfonie
02/15/2018 12:09 AMPosted by DirtyWeeb
According to overbuff, Moira has the highest pick rate in all ranks except bronze and silver(which she still maintains 2nd and 3rd) so I guess we've moved from mercy meta to Moira meta
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes


Right now, there are 3 accepted healers in this game
In some teams picking Mercy is trolling, simliar to picking Hanzo or Widow in gold ranks (other ppl might just dont care, you actually have a higher chance to have ppl who dont care if youre a Mercy main).. people will tilt at you and throwe the game, want you to be reported just for picking Mercy
Ana is hardcountered by barriers, a fundamental basic of tanking this game hardcounters her. So playing her takes quite a lot skill and most people just dont have that skill

Zen and Lucio are off healer, you can run both but a lot of teams will have problems due to low healing

So, all support-options left for your standard-comp is Lucio + Moira or Zen + Moira
Of course her pickrate is somewhat high then

Btw, Mercys pickrate before this rework (and even before people started to call her OP (9 months after her last buff)) was at 11% I think. Moira is just popular and as I said there is not much you can pick when only 3/5 healers are viable in the communitys opinion

02/15/2018 12:16 AMPosted by DirtyWeeb
I'm not exactly calling for a nerf, just saying that she shouldn't be able to do better than the rest of the supports without being mechanically taxing

She needs more mechanical skill than Mercy or Lucio
She needs more gamesense than Zen
how does she require more mechanical aim than lucio, can u please extrapolate. Cuz I think lucio requires much more aim. After all he fires 4 slowish moving projectiles so to get ok damage it's necessary to lead shots and aim for the head. Moira seems to be the polar opposite in the sense that her primary locks on and she has an orb that does too and can dish out damage and healing much better the lucio
02/15/2018 12:13 AMPosted by TheFiend
02/15/2018 12:09 AMPosted by DirtyWeeb
According to overbuff, Moira has the highest pick rate in all ranks except bronze and silver(which she still maintains 2nd and 3rd) so I guess we've moved from mercy meta to Moira meta


Well since you require a healer, there's always going to be a meta featuring at least one healer. Seriously there's only 5 healers to choose from and Ana sucks at dive, so it's really more like 4.


I agree. When looking at pick rates it should be taken into account that usually there is a need for roughly two healers and two tanks but the selection for those roles is a third of the size of the DPS roster.
She does less damage than both Zenyatta and Symmetra. Putting her in 3rd place, out of a total 6 support places for most total damage. That's true even on the GM level. She's exactly the middle of the pack.

In terms of the entire game's roster

She has the 4th worse damage in the entire game.

It goes

1. Mercy
2. Ana
3. Lucio
4. Moira
5. Mei

At the GM level replace Mei with Winston.

How is that too much damage?

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum