[Facts]Moira is op vs Moira is not op

General Discussion
Here are some more facts for you OP.

Out of the 3 main healers, Moira sits in the middle in terms of avg healing per game. And remember, Ana is trash tier atm.

Out of the supports, Moira does the 2nd most damage... but thats cos Mercy and Ana do piss all for damage and Lucio's damage is peanuts.

Out of the supports, Moira ranks 2nd for least deaths per game, behind Mercy, the support with a suicide E button. Even her "ability to stay alive" is surpassed by other healers.

Moira does not have discord orb, rez, speed boost or grenade, which are the powerhouse utility tools that define the support when they were meta. The utility of the above abilities cannot be defined by HPS or DPS.

That and despite all your claims that she is OP, her pickrate and winrate across all ranks show otherwise.

All the above are facts.

You asked for them, you get them. Now stop hiding behind your wall of "fake news" and deal with them.
Here are some more facts for you OP.

Out of the 3 main healers, Moira sits in the middle in terms of avg healing per game.

Out of the supports, Moira does the 2nd most damage... but thats cos Mercy and Ana do piss all for damage and Lucio's damage is peanuts.

Moira does not have discord orb, rez, speed boost or grenade, which are the powerhouse utility tools that define the support when they were meta. The utility of the above abilities cannot be defined by HPS or DPS.

That and despite all your claims that she is OP, her pickrate and winrate across all ranks show otherwise.

All the above are facts.

You asked for them, you get them. Now stop hiding behind your wall of "fake news" and deal with them.

Does Nade and Sleep dart have 100% guaranted value ? No
Does Rez happen very often ? No
3/4 of the people doesn't know how to play as/with a Lucio so his utility is weak

Only Zenyatta have 100% guaranted utility.
02/20/2018 05:40 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
Here are some more facts for you OP.

Out of the 3 main healers, Moira sits in the middle in terms of avg healing per game.

Out of the supports, Moira does the 2nd most damage... but thats cos Mercy and Ana do piss all for damage and Lucio's damage is peanuts.

Moira does not have discord orb, rez, speed boost or grenade, which are the powerhouse utility tools that define the support when they were meta. The utility of the above abilities cannot be defined by HPS or DPS.

That and despite all your claims that she is OP, her pickrate and winrate across all ranks show otherwise.

All the above are facts.

You asked for them, you get them. Now stop hiding behind your wall of "fake news" and deal with them.

Does Nade and Sleep dart have 100% guaranted value ? No
Does Rez happen very often ? No
3/4 of the people doesn't know how to play as/with a Lucio so his utility is weak

Only Zenyatta have 100% guaranted utility.


Nade has 99% utility what are you talking about. You have to actually make an effort to miss nade.

Speed boost is instant utility. We dont balance around bad players that dont understand teamwork.

And Rez in 2.0 was as broken as broken could get. They literally had to render the ability virtually unusable to make it not OP.

The only one you would miss a lot with is sleep dart. But everything else is pretty much guarenteed utility.
02/20/2018 05:40 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
Here are some more facts for you OP.

Out of the 3 main healers, Moira sits in the middle in terms of avg healing per game.

Out of the supports, Moira does the 2nd most damage... but thats cos Mercy and Ana do piss all for damage and Lucio's damage is peanuts.

Moira does not have discord orb, rez, speed boost or grenade, which are the powerhouse utility tools that define the support when they were meta. The utility of the above abilities cannot be defined by HPS or DPS.

That and despite all your claims that she is OP, her pickrate and winrate across all ranks show otherwise.

All the above are facts.

You asked for them, you get them. Now stop hiding behind your wall of "fake news" and deal with them.

Does Nade and Sleep dart have 100% guaranted value ? No
Does Rez happen very often ? No
3/4 of the people doesn't know how to play as/with a Lucio so his utility is weak

Only Zenyatta have 100% guaranted utility.


So are you just not gonna acknowledge me shutting you down every post? I mean that's fine, but you're only making yourself look less credible in this debate.
02/20/2018 05:40 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
...
Does Nade and Sleep dart have 100% guaranted value ? No
Does Rez happen very often ? No
3/4 of the people doesn't know how to play as/with a Lucio so his utility is weak

Only Zenyatta have 100% guaranted utility.


Nade has 99% utility what are you talking about. You have to actually make an effort to miss nade.

Speed boost is instant utility. We dont balance around bad players that dont understand teamwork.

And Rez in 2.0 was as broken as broken could get. They literally had to render the ability virtually unusable to make it not OP.

The only one you would miss a lot with is sleep dart. But everything else is pretty much guarenteed utility.


So if we listen to you McCree > Genji because McCree have utility with high noon and flashbang.
Utility doesn't make all.
And you can miss nade when you throw it in the enemy team you can hit only 1-2 heroes

And I talk about actual rez not Opaf september rez
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Nade has 99% utility what are you talking about. You have to actually make an effort to miss nade.

Speed boost is instant utility. We dont balance around bad players that dont understand teamwork.

And Rez in 2.0 was as broken as broken could get. They literally had to render the ability virtually unusable to make it not OP.

The only one you would miss a lot with is sleep dart. But everything else is pretty much guarenteed utility.


So if we listen to you McCree > Genji because McCree have utility with high noon and flashbang.
Utility doesn't make all.
And you can miss nade when you throw it in the enemy team you can hit only 1-2 heroes

And I talk about actual rez not Opaf september rez


Pfft. Ahahahahaha. Oh god my sides.

Dragonblade has more utility than high noon ever will. It is the only DPS ult that is guarenteed to force out a support ult if one is available. Just by pressing Q. Dragonblade also zones way better than high noon. Just pull it and watch everyone run away from you. Bonus: You arent likely to die either.

And flashbang < deflect. Flashbang is a short ranged CC. Deflect is a everyone stop shooting ability.

Not to mention mobility wise Genji utterly dominates Mccree, who roughly has similar mobility as Moira.

Also mass rez?

Mercy was F tier prior to her rework. Comparing to UP heroes proves no point.

And bruh, hitting 1-2 people with Ana's nade is still utility. In fact it is a lot of utility. Hitting an ally with grenade makes them a lot more survivable. Hitting an enemy basically marks them for death like discord orb. Heck, it is basically an AoE discord orb. You cant go wrong with it.
this entire debate really taught me only 2 new things, that flankers fundamentally don't understand how most supports work and seem to just demand a nerf when a support outsmarts them

like play some moira dude, its the easiest way to learn her flaws and be able to become a better flanker, she only seems powerful from the receiving end, and ur just looking for statistics to support your nerfing arguments, not to actually improve the game for everyone
There's more context to hero balance than just adding up the raw numbers of how much damage and heals they can do. It also matters the liklihood of the damage/healing actually being delivered to their intended target, which is determined by aim and positioning.
02/20/2018 06:09 AMPosted by BernieSander
There's more context to hero balance than just adding up the raw numbers of how much damage and heals they can do. It also matters the liklihood of the damage/healing actually being delivered to their intended target, which is determined by aim and positioning.


thank you for your 2 cents, bernie sanders
02/20/2018 06:00 AMPosted by go123452
...

So if we listen to you McCree > Genji because McCree have utility with high noon and flashbang.
Utility doesn't make all.
And you can miss nade when you throw it in the enemy team you can hit only 1-2 heroes

And I talk about actual rez not Opaf september rez


Pfft. Ahahahahaha. Oh god my sides.

Dragonblade has more utility than high noon ever will. It is the only DPS ult that is guarenteed to force out a support ult if one is available. Just by pressing Q.

And flashbang < deflect. Flashbang is a short ranged CC. Deflect is a everyone stop shooting ability.

Not to mention mobility wise Genji utterly dominates Mccree, who roughly has similar mobility as Moira.


Deflect is a 2sec tempo before dash and it does not block everything you can still shoot the Genji
Dragonblqde forces support ults just like Visor,Barrage,Death Blossom,Emp(but you need a very fast Zen)
02/20/2018 06:06 AMPosted by EvilSJW

like play some moira dude, its the easiest way to learn her flaws and be able to become a better flanker, she only seems powerful from the receiving end, and ur just looking for statistics to support your nerfing arguments, not to actually improve the game for everyone


Apparently for some people here, complaining and spouting off nonsense that has been disproven many times, is way easier. Whats the point of putting effort into learning when you can just complain to Papa Jeff and they'll take care all of their problems.

Seriously, some people here are just too spoiled.
02/20/2018 06:16 AMPosted by Crestren
02/20/2018 06:06 AMPosted by EvilSJW

like play some moira dude, its the easiest way to learn her flaws and be able to become a better flanker, she only seems powerful from the receiving end, and ur just looking for statistics to support your nerfing arguments, not to actually improve the game for everyone


Apparently for some people here, complaining and spouting off nonsense that has been disproven many times, is way easier. Whats the point of putting effort into learning when you can just complain to Papa Jeff and they'll take care all of their problems.

Seriously, some people here are just too spoiled.


right? like a pretty good practice to do before jumping on the forums would be to play the hero u hate so much and want nerfed, and see if you dominate every game just as you claim that hero does
02/20/2018 06:15 AMPosted by PsychoPuff
Deflect is a 2sec tempo before dash and it does not block everything you can still shoot the Genji
Dragonblqde forces support ults just like Visor,Barrage,Death Blossom,Emp(but you need a very fast Zen)


this seems to just become a debate for dps now lol, which is where i need to reafirm the point that the objective of a dps player is very different from the objective of a support player, not to mention there is a lot more dps heroes, so there is a lot more statistics to analyze, so the analogy is useless here
The moment OP said that "Ana's ammo is at the same level of disadvantage as Moira's meter is" I discredited this post.

If I were a tank in a team fight I would much prefer waiting 2 seconds (or however long it is) for Ana to reload versus having to wait however long for Moira to go out, damage the enemy team long enough to get her meter at a decent level, and then get back into position to heal me.
Moira's damage is high because she relies on dealing damage in order to heal. The number is skewed because she feeds off tanks who instantly get healed and do more final blows instead.

Her healing has a short range, which makes her better with tank heavy comps than with dive heavy comps. There are still a lot of maps where she will succ because of high ground.

The healing she does depends on the comp she has. You might get 15k-20k with 4 tanks and only get 5k with dive.

My only complaint is the dueling power she has against every 200hp hero. But it's not because of her right click but rather her damage orb. I think the damage orb should be completely reworked because it's too much RNG and since it doesn't deplete on shields the only counter to it is DVa. The rework should be that it can be blocked with shields (just like right now) but it should attack it.
Guys.

OP thinks Genji's kit is weak.

The bias is untenable in this one.

/thread
02/20/2018 06:19 AMPosted by EvilSJW

right? like a pretty good practice to do before jumping on the forums would be to play the hero u hate so much and want nerfed, and see if you dominate every game just as you claim that hero does


These are also the same people that tell other people to "Git Gud" but when they run into a problem, they are apparently entitled to ask for nerfs for them, but when told to "git gud" as well, they freak out and ask why.
god i still love how this post has [FACTS] in the name, like hes fooling anyone.... lmfao

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