Moira now has the highest pickrate over every SR

General Discussion
02/14/2018 05:52 PMPosted by xeNNNNN
02/14/2018 04:39 PMPosted by Uperior
Moira is balanced

Mercy's winrate and pickrate are leveling out

Ana needs a buff

Lucio needs looking at

The Sombra buffs are huge nerfs to Ana and Lucio

So of course people are going to play Moira. She's the only "main" healer who hasn't been nerfed too much, or made unfun


Doesnt that ultimately prove thats they're actually correct though?

Though it is indirect it puts her in the exact same place as mercy was only for different reasons and not directly because she was reworked or buffed either.


Mercy was the most used only for the bottom 2/3rds of the playerbase, and the top 1/3rd used Ana. Because Mass Rez wasn't that great it just wasn't fun. But in general it's better to prevent a death than undo one. Now that both have been made unfun to play, Moira is the go-to for both.
I never understand this argument. There are 5 healers and 6 tanks, so you should see one of them at the top of the list due to how few of them there are. Being at the top of the pick list does not necessarily indicate that they are broken or overpowered, as it is just simple math.

Mercy was at the top of the list and was a problem due to how incredibly ubiquitous she was as a "must pick" due to Resurrect. Moira is exceedingly fun to play and is effective as a main healer, so I am not surprised to see her at the top of the heap.

D.Va being the most picked tank is also not a surprise for much the same reason, both because there are so few tanks and that she is incredibly fun to play now while also being the most versatile of the tank line-up.

DPS make up the rest of the 26 heroes, excepting the 2 or so defensive specialists who are not really full DPS. If you see one of them at the top, then that is an actual problem to discuss, because it indicates that they are actually overpowered.
02/14/2018 04:45 PMPosted by Shiv0r
02/14/2018 04:37 PMPosted by Falsetto
They should just remove the damage orb and I think Moira will be in a much more balanced state.


"Balanced state", more like free kill for genji and tracer.

You generally want to heal orb in a duel anyway. Genji and Tracer pretty much can't outDPS the orb+drain. Both of them have easy escapes, but they'll just be in the same situation if they try again.

Try to damage orb them instead and you pretty much guaranteed your death. Unless you KNOW you can finish them off they'll just dodge the orb (or reflect it) and kill you.
Look, most of the support heroes are in a very bad place right now and Moira and Zen are the two only reliable ones. Don't blame Moira for the fact that other supports are trash (Lucio/Mercy/Sym especially)
02/14/2018 04:46 PMPosted by Tuofir
Difference between Moira and Mercy being on top is that Mercy's sudden rise was due to changes directly to her, while Moira has risen based on changes to other characters.

Mercy was OP and needed to be toned down in some way
Moira is balanced, but the other characters with similar roles are lacking

Nerfing Moira won't make the other support better, it will make the entire category weaker. After Moira, it will be Zen.

That's why the "buff all the other supports" argument didn't work in Mercy's case, but it's what's needed for Moira.

Raising Ana's damage to 75 and giving a small buff to nano boost would be a good start, as would a very small change with Lucio's ult

As for Mercy... you got me.


Mercy was OP. That much is true. However Moira, whether we like it or not(I don't) is going to get nerfed. Unfortunate but true nontheless.
At least you're actually using concrete evidence, even if I disagree that Moira needs a nerf (i'm assuming that's what you're inferring). The key to this debate imo is Zenyatta. Everyone agrees he's balanced, and in theory as an off healer his pick rate should be lower than that of Mercy, Moira and Ana. For the purpose of this comparison Lucio isn't required, as he's slightly UP (only slightly though, he's just outclassed by Zen in most situations and the 2 all round changes to ultimates and midair movement hurt him). Here are the weekly PC pick rates of those 4 in each tier:

Bronze
Mercy = 9.25%
Moira = 8.84%
Zen = 4.35%
Ana = 3.27%

Silver
Moira = 9.88%
Mercy = 9.00%
Zen = 4.81%
Ana = 4.14%

Gold
Moira = 10.39%
Mercy = 8.06%
Zen = 5.24%
Ana = 5.11%

Plat
Moira = 10.70%
Mercy = 6.78%
Ana = 5.79%
Zen = 5.70%

Diamond
Moira = 10.54%
Zen = 6.65%
Mercy = 6.09%
Ana = 5.76%

Master
Moira = 11.41%
Zen = 7.56%
Mercy = 4.86%
Ana = 4.84%

GM
Moira = 10.93%
Zen = 7.92%
Mercy = 3.09%
Ana = 3.06%

Findings:
- Mercy is still strong at the low tiers where aim is poor, but quickly tails away when you get up high, Verdict = Balanced in low, UP in pro
- Ana only moves above Zen once, and is always the lowest main healer, Verdict = UP in general
- Moira consistently stays above Zen, and her pick rate is a little bit lower than that of Mercy pre-2.0, post Ana nerf, Verdict = Balanced
02/14/2018 04:39 PMPosted by Uperior
Moira is balanced

Mercy's winrate and pickrate are leveling out

Ana needs a buff

Lucio needs looking at

The Sombra buffs are huge nerfs to Ana and Lucio

So of course people are going to play Moira. She's the only "main" healer who hasn't been nerfed too much, or made unfun

[/quote]

Well I took a look at Omnic Meta: http://www.omnicmeta.com/2018/02/overwatch-hero-meta-report-pc-feb-8-2017.html

Unfortunately Mercy's pickrate is not evening out. The Omnic Meta folks even noted that her winrate has become one of the worst in the game alongside Ana.

But yeah, Mercy is by and large being replaced by Moira and its causing a small surge in the number of D.Va picks since Dm counters the orbs.
Genji has the highest pickrate of DPS and Dva has the highest tank pickrate
There’s always going to be one healer that has a higher pickrate then all the others. It’s the nature of the game. Once it was Zen, then Lucio, then Ana, then Mercy, now Moira. With near every game requiring a main healer, and there only being three in the game, of course one of the three will have a high pick rate at any given time.
If we go by pickrate, we also need to nerf D.Va, Winston, Tracer, Genji and Zenyatta.

If we go by balance and logic, we just fix Genji’s deflect hit box and leave the rest as they are.
HAHAHA ITS A HEALER, THEY WILL HAVE HIGH PICK RATES...
Give back Lucio about 5m of range on his songs.
02/15/2018 06:51 AMPosted by ChristyC621
There’s always going to be one healer that has a higher pickrate then all the others. It’s the nature of the game. Once it was Zen, then Lucio, then Ana, then Mercy, now Moira. With near every game requiring a main healer, and there only being three in the game, of course one of the three will have a high pick rate at any given time.


And we all know, what happens when one healer is picked too much...
When meta without healers will appear, with Sombra taking support role?
02/15/2018 07:11 AMPosted by Cleopatra
02/15/2018 06:51 AMPosted by ChristyC621
There’s always going to be one healer that has a higher pickrate then all the others. It’s the nature of the game. Once it was Zen, then Lucio, then Ana, then Mercy, now Moira. With near every game requiring a main healer, and there only being three in the game, of course one of the three will have a high pick rate at any given time.


And we all know, what happens when one healer is picked too much...


Point is, doesn’t matter if Moira gets nerfed, then there will be a new healer pick rate for people to complain about. It’s just an endless circle, because there will always be a best healer, even if they all get nerfed lol.

Though it seems important to note that Moira’s pick rate is nothing like Mercy’s, so I don’t think, when she is inevitably nerfed, it’ll be as harsh as Mercy’s nerfs.
It just brings a question - why even bother to play healer? Why not stick with heroes that not get messed up on the regular?

Or this cycle will continue, until 76 and Sombra become best healers?
02/15/2018 06:29 AMPosted by Bendubz11
At least you're actually using concrete evidence, even if I disagree that Moira needs a nerf (i'm assuming that's what you're inferring). The key to this debate imo is Zenyatta. Everyone agrees he's balanced, and in theory as an off healer his pick rate should be lower than that of Mercy, Moira and Ana. For the purpose of this comparison Lucio isn't required, as he's slightly UP (only slightly though, he's just outclassed by Zen in most situations and the 2 all round changes to ultimates and midair movement hurt him). Here are the weekly PC pick rates of those 4 in each tier:

Bronze
Mercy = 9.25%
Moira = 8.84%
Zen = 4.35%
Ana = 3.27%

Silver
Moira = 9.88%
Mercy = 9.00%
Zen = 4.81%
Ana = 4.14%

Gold
Moira = 10.39%
Mercy = 8.06%
Zen = 5.24%
Ana = 5.11%

Plat
Moira = 10.70%
Mercy = 6.78%
Ana = 5.79%
Zen = 5.70%

Diamond
Moira = 10.54%
Zen = 6.65%
Mercy = 6.09%
Ana = 5.76%

Master
Moira = 11.41%
Zen = 7.56%
Mercy = 4.86%
Ana = 4.84%

GM
Moira = 10.93%
Zen = 7.92%
Mercy = 3.09%
Ana = 3.06%

Findings:
- Mercy is still strong at the low tiers where aim is poor, but quickly tails away when you get up high, Verdict = Balanced in low, UP in pro
- Ana only moves above Zen once, and is always the lowest main healer, Verdict = UP in general
- Moira consistently stays above Zen, and her pick rate is a little bit lower than that of Mercy pre-2.0, post Ana nerf, Verdict = Balanced
You really need to consider cross class balance. Moira essentially removes the need for dps in the game, that can't be called balance.
BECAUSE GOD FORBID A SUPPORT HERO IS THE MOST PLAYED BECAUSE THATS SOOOOOOOOO BAD
02/14/2018 05:04 PMPosted by Edsoulman
02/14/2018 04:45 PMPosted by Shiv0r
"Balanced state", more like free kill for genji and tracer.


If any supports are a “free kill” then your counter-flankers aren’t doing their jobs. Speak to McCree and Roadhog. Even Winston.

Mcree: only "counter flanker" ability is flashbang, which any good Genji/Tracer can bait out or dodge.

Roadhog: no longer has his one-shot combo. He can outlast a flanker in a fight, but not before they've killed his support.

Winston: hilariously easy to kite for any decent Genji/Tracer, and is supposed to be diving the enemy with his own Genji/Tracer anyways.

We've had to scream at the top of our lungs for over half a year to get actual counters to the flanker duo. It's not enough to just be "okay" at dueling them, you need heroes who are able to shut them down as soon as they show up. Anything less means you're not going to save your support.
02/15/2018 07:30 AMPosted by SlayerAdam
02/15/2018 06:29 AMPosted by Bendubz11
At least you're actually using concrete evidence, even if I disagree that Moira needs a nerf (i'm assuming that's what you're inferring). The key to this debate imo is Zenyatta. Everyone agrees he's balanced, and in theory as an off healer his pick rate should be lower than that of Mercy, Moira and Ana. For the purpose of this comparison Lucio isn't required, as he's slightly UP (only slightly though, he's just outclassed by Zen in most situations and the 2 all round changes to ultimates and midair movement hurt him). Here are the weekly PC pick rates of those 4 in each tier:

Bronze
Mercy = 9.25%
Moira = 8.84%
Zen = 4.35%
Ana = 3.27%

Silver
Moira = 9.88%
Mercy = 9.00%
Zen = 4.81%
Ana = 4.14%

Gold
Moira = 10.39%
Mercy = 8.06%
Zen = 5.24%
Ana = 5.11%

Plat
Moira = 10.70%
Mercy = 6.78%
Ana = 5.79%
Zen = 5.70%

Diamond
Moira = 10.54%
Zen = 6.65%
Mercy = 6.09%
Ana = 5.76%

Master
Moira = 11.41%
Zen = 7.56%
Mercy = 4.86%
Ana = 4.84%

GM
Moira = 10.93%
Zen = 7.92%
Mercy = 3.09%
Ana = 3.06%

Findings:
- Mercy is still strong at the low tiers where aim is poor, but quickly tails away when you get up high, Verdict = Balanced in low, UP in pro
- Ana only moves above Zen once, and is always the lowest main healer, Verdict = UP in general
- Moira consistently stays above Zen, and her pick rate is a little bit lower than that of Mercy pre-2.0, post Ana nerf, Verdict = Balanced
You really need to consider cross class balance. Moira essentially removes the need for dps in the game, that can't be called balance.
If they're focusing on DPS over healing, considering she only offers 50DPS, then either they're playing her wrong or they're having to fill in for garbage DPS. When I watch GM Moira mains play, they tend to do 3hp healing for every 1hp damage. As you can tell I'm nowhere near as good, but for my level I'm great at Moira and I tend to up that to 4hp healing per 1hp damage. If you want to be a successful Moira player, based admittedly on anecdotal evidence rather than concrete, focusing on healing is the way to go.
When Mercy was "Top Pick" Tracer and Genji were sent in as premium assassins to effectively shut her down along with half dozen other counters. When a defense seem impenetrable, Tracer and Genji were the MVP to find cracks. There was glory to be had.

Instead of letting counters just play out. Hard nerfs were applied to force a downfall on Mercy. Which in turn also diminish some of the appreciate and status of Tracer/Genji/flankers and rise of Miora.

So instead of dealing with a defenseless Mercy who can't really fight back but just heal/rez. Now flankers have to deal more often with healers who have more bite with instant regret...that's what happens when people exaggerated Mercy's success and cherry pick comp data to get her nerf. People who cried wolf, played themself. Other non-Mercy support have bigger fangs and claws to bite back.

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