"Every loss is your fault"

Competitive Discussion
I hate this whole "the only thing common among your losses is you" argument. Now I know not every loss isn't my fault I definitely lose sometimes because I played poorly, but I don't think it's fair to say that every loss is my fault because I could have played better when there are 5 other people on my team who also lost.

You don't tell Lebron that he didn't play well enough to carry his team when he scores 60 points, and you don't tell Birdring that if he had killed more people than his team would not have lost.

Nothing makes me more mad than when I make a comment about how I'm on a losing streak in chat and I immediately get pounced on for being the problem because I'm "the only constant in all of my losses" it really just does not make sense. Sometimes I'll lose and there is simply nothing more that I can do.

Overwatch is a team game and to say a string of losses is solely on one person is completely ridiculous.
although it is frustrating to lose because it is apparent that the members of your team could have played better, the only thing you can change is yourself. focusing on what you can do better is the only real way to improve and to truly climb in skill. no matter if you are in bronze or t500 you can always improve and do better
Yep, that is complete [Edited by Blizzard]. One constant in tens of variables will never outweigh (well unless are smurfing much lower ELO). Let me ask those people by presenting this example:

You are a healer. You team is you + 5dps mains. Enemy team is 2-2-2 mains. How this can ever be your fault for losing this game?

Or you are on opposite side: you are healer in 2-2-2 mains team, enemy is tank+5dps mains. You could go afk in that game and it would still be a win.

Or smth goes wrong and someone on your team decides to intentionally throw "[Edited by Blizzard] it, torbjorn ready to throw" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1o0tvaPqyg)

Sure, your own performance and co-op skills matter a lot, but there are plenty of situations in this variable cocktail where you have nothing to say on outcome of the game.

Forum Mod Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to language. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/code-of-conduct/
"Every loss is your fault" isn't what is said.

"You are the only constant in your games" is the phrase. Its not the same thing.

People focus too much on individual games and not enough on the overall. So what if you lose a game to a thrower.

Your performance should lessen the blow of a loss as well as give greater gains for a win........if its not you aren't as good as you think.

When anyone starts going into explanations of specific situations "well the Reinhardt charges in and the mercy...blah....blah.....blah....just stop. STOP. all the games are the same. Every single one. They all have people doing dumb crap........every single one.....

Your rank is your own doing no one else but you. If you are a gold hanzo its because you play like 30,000 other gold hanzos. You want to be better than a gold hanzo then work on it and get better. Its only your own decisions limiting you.
It can be either or. Maybe it's you, perhaps someone on your team or possibly the enemy side just played better pure and simple. It's important to know when you didn't do well though or when mistakes were made.

Today on Oasis I was Tracer in a 1-1 Match. On the last point, we had 30% while the enemy team had 97%. We had just finally taken control of the point after being shutdown the entire round. For whatever reason, I thought it'd be smart to flank the Healers and pick one off as they were walking into the point from their side. That didn't happen. The tanks turned around and crushed me. It then was a 5v6 for my team, they lacked damage, were overrun and all died. We lost. Safe to say that it was my fault we lost. It wasn't entirely my fault that we were performing poorly all match, because I did have gold damage/kills/objective kill. That was an error in team synergy that created a close game such as it was. I was doing what I was supposed to and was playing well mechanically, but it didn't matter in the end because I caused the loss due to my bad decision during a close game when that particular moment mattered and that's what I am talking about. Moments matter in Overwatch and sometimes things are irreversibly decided.

If you can realistically asses what you delivered to the team and what you could've done differently, you'll go a long way.
02/16/2018 12:13 AMPosted by Herpaderp
the only thing you can change is yourself

This ^

That's the point. You can't educate everyone you come across on how to play. You can only work on yourself.
The thing with myself, is that I know when I am having a bad game, I am very honest with myself in this regard. Overall, I am a pretty consistent player - but I can tell when I am not helping the team as much as I can, even when we win.

Sometimes it's about trying to do less is more, sounds backwards, but I have games sometimes where I am not on it and not thinking about what and why I am doing things, so I take a step back, assess what's going on and be more methodical about how I am going about things.

I don't agree with the every loss is your fault argument though, because some games are purely unwinnable. I mean unwinnable in the sense that the best player in the world could be in my game instead of me, and the team would still lose.

It's the throwers that really disappoint me though, because I just can't understand why anyone would go into a competitive mode of a game, and ruin it for everybody else... if that is someone's idea of fun, or someone's idea of funny, or they get enjoyment out of ruining other peoples experiences, then I'm not angry with them, I truly feel sorry for them more than anything.
Every loss will not always be your fault. However, every loss there will always be something you could've done better. And that is effectively the point trying to be made. You can't control what kind of teammates you have and what they do or don't do. You can only control what you do and what you can do going forward to get better.
02/16/2018 12:13 AMPosted by Herpaderp
although it is frustrating to lose because it is apparent that the members of your team could have played better, the only thing you can change is yourself. focusing on what you can do better is the only real way to improve and to truly climb in skill. no matter if you are in bronze or t500 you can always improve and do better

you didn't necessarily agree of disagree with me. Do you believe that every loss is due to you not playing your bset, or do you agree that sometimes there is nothing you can do to "carry" your bad teammates or people who do not want to cooperate?
02/16/2018 12:13 AMPosted by Herpaderp
although it is frustrating to lose because it is apparent that the members of your team could have played better, the only thing you can change is yourself. focusing on what you can do better is the only real way to improve and to truly climb in skill. no matter if you are in bronze or t500 you can always improve and do better


02/16/2018 01:19 AMPosted by LUCIF3R
It can be either or. Maybe it's you, perhaps someone on your team or possibly the enemy side just played better pure and simple. It's important to know when you didn't do well though or when mistakes were made.

Today on Oasis I was Tracer in a 1-1 Match. On the last point, we had 30% while the enemy team had 97%. We had just finally taken control of the point after being shutdown the entire round. For whatever reason, I thought it'd be smart to flank the Healers and pick one off as they were walking into the point from their side. That didn't happen. The tanks turned around and crushed me. It then was a 5v6 for my team, they lacked damage, were overrun and all died. We lost. Safe to say that it was my fault we lost. It wasn't entirely my fault that we were performing poorly all match, because I did have gold damage/kills/objective kill. That was an error in team synergy that created a close game such as it was. I was doing what I was supposed to and was playing well mechanically, but it didn't matter in the end because I caused the loss due to my bad decision during a close game when that particular moment mattered and that's what I am talking about. Moments matter in Overwatch and sometimes things are irreversibly decided.

If you can realistically asses what you delivered to the team and what you could've done differently, you'll go a long way.


02/16/2018 01:25 AMPosted by Physics
02/16/2018 12:13 AMPosted by Herpaderp
the only thing you can change is yourself

This ^

That's the point. You can't educate everyone you come across on how to play. You can only work on yourself.


02/16/2018 02:32 AMPosted by jacqui
Every loss will not always be your fault. However, every loss there will always be something you could've done better. And that is effectively the point trying to be made. You can't control what kind of teammates you have and what they do or don't do. You can only control what you do and what you can do going forward to get better.


Thank you for having a civil conversation. I really do try to acknowledge in every game what I could have done better and I know that goes a long way. What I come away with from your posts is that there will be games where you can't do anything to prevent a loss due to teammates, but what you can do is improve yourself so when you are in a situation where you can win (such as having teammates who actually want to cooperate), you can use you past knowledge of defeat to prevent yourself from making mistakes and possibly helping your team win
02/16/2018 12:36 AMPosted by Solitara
"Every loss is your fault" isn't what is said.

"You are the only constant in your games" is not the same thing.

People focus too much on individual games and not enough on the overall. So what if you lose a game to a thrower.

Your performance should lessen the blow of a loss as well as give greater gains for a win........if its not you aren't as good as you think.

When anyone starts going into explanations of specific situations "well the Reinhardt charges in and the mercy...blah....blah.....blah....just stop. STOP. all the games are the same. Every single one. They all have people doing dumb crap........every single one.....

Your rank is your own doing no one else but you. If you are a gold hanzo its because you play like 30,000 other gold hanzos. You want to be better than a gold hanzo then work on it and get better. Its only your own decisions limiting you.


I agree when you deserve to move up, the SR you gain from a win will outnumber the SR you lose from a loss, but that is under the assumption that you will win 50% of your games. And wining 50% of you games just is not the case for some people who experience streaks of really bad teammates who either don't want to work as a team or who mechanically did not play well that game.

i'm not saying that I deserve to be in Diamond or Masters, but I know when I deserve to move up a bit and can't due to unlucky streaks.
02/16/2018 01:19 AMPosted by LUCIF3R
It can be either or. Maybe it's you, perhaps someone on your team or possibly the enemy side just played better pure and simple. It's important to know when you didn't do well though or when mistakes were made.

Today on Oasis I was Tracer in a 1-1 Match. On the last point, we had 30% while the enemy team had 97%. We had just finally taken control of the point after being shutdown the entire round. For whatever reason, I thought it'd be smart to flank the Healers and pick one off as they were walking into the point from their side. That didn't happen. The tanks turned around and crushed me. It then was a 5v6 for my team, they lacked damage, were overrun and all died. We lost. Safe to say that it was my fault we lost. It wasn't entirely my fault that we were performing poorly all match, because I did have gold damage/kills/objective kill. That was an error in team synergy that created a close game such as it was. I was doing what I was supposed to and was playing well mechanically, but it didn't matter in the end because I caused the loss due to my bad decision during a close game when that particular moment mattered and that's what I am talking about. Moments matter in Overwatch and sometimes things are irreversibly decided.

If you can realistically asses what you delivered to the team and what you could've done differently, you'll go a long way.


I don't think it was a bad decision to go after the healers. That's what you're supposed to do. It made sense at the time. If I'd been on your team and realized what you were doing I might have tried to support your move. I don't know if that is so much "your fault" as it was a "save" by the enemy tanks. They actually had the game-sense to keep an eye on their healers (which is an extremely rare trait in my experience), and it took the element of surprise away from you. At worst, I could say that you should have realized sooner that you'd been out-flanked, and run for your life, but maybe you did and they caught you anyway. Sometimes, you do the right thing and still lose. Just like life. It's that kind of game.
Not literally every lose is your personal fault but it does not matter. This means that you should treat every loss in a way that you could do better and not blaming your teammates/Internet/smurfs/Mercy/Jeff and whatever else excuses. Sometimes you will get bad games, bad streaks or even bad days - doesn't matter in the long run anyway.

When I feel that I cannot possibly win a certain game I ask myself a question: "Could Effect/Zunba/Seagull/(insert pro on your hero) win this game?". And in most cases the answer is yes, it was winnable but I am not good enough.
02/16/2018 07:54 AMPosted by LJRoss27
I agree when you deserve to move up, the SR you gain from a win will outnumber the SR you lose from a loss, but that is under the assumption that you will win 50% of your games. And wining 50% of you games just is not the case for some people who experience streaks of really bad teammates who either don't want to work as a team or who mechanically did not play well that game.

i'm not saying that I deserve to be in Diamond or Masters, but I know when I deserve to move up a bit and can't due to unlucky streaks

If you play enough games you'll end up where you deserve to be at. If you feel you're better than your current rank but you've played hours chances are that you still belong in that rank despite you not feeling that way. Statistically, it's impossible to play hundreds of hours and not be where you belong to be.
02/16/2018 02:32 AMPosted by jacqui
Every loss will not always be your fault. However, every loss there will always be something you could've done better.

Actually that's not necessarily the case. But that's not important I guess.

To the OP, maybe it helps you if I tell you from my little experiment that I did just recently. I showed the game to my GF and after some extensive coaching, let her do her placement matches. I myself haven't touched Ranked since season 2 and also did my placement matches when I was fully warmed up and chill.
Well the end result is her lvl 43 account got ranked plat (2684 irc) and I got ranked Gold (2200).
Now this doesn't help ppl that don't know me but I was playing mp FPS since the 90's some on the highest level some not, and she knows her way around a mouse and Keyboard but she is more of a WoW player than a FPS player. She played mostly mercy and Soldier Pharah, Reaper, so there was no one tricking either.

For me it was just an experiment to check if anything had changed with the System. If you should give a hoot about OW ranking that is. And no you really shouldn't.

If you play enough games you'll end up where you deserve to be at.

But why should I? Why should I grind horrible matches, or rather a terrible time just to maybe be able to get decent matchups at some point, and that is only IF you are right with what you are saying which is nothing but an assumption really.
There are so many games/hobbies available that don't let me jump through hoops before I can have a good time with them.
For me the best system from my experience was Quake Live's tier system and skill based algorithms. The game detects your actual performance capabilities with things like weapon accuracy (for instance there were certain thresholds that amateurs simply couldn't hold) and then puts you in the tier it thought you belong. This was different for every game mode too, so someone tier 4 in ctf could at the same time be tier 2 duel ect.
If you actually improved, your stats improved, and you could get into the next tier, if it was just a lucky day you got your butt handed to you and the game put you back a tier. (sort of like the MMR does it but it does it to net everyone approx 50/50 wins, a vile unholy thing if you ask me, for the sole reason to keep their customers "happy" and nothing else)

Now there was no shiny number to show your grandma how awesome you are but it made for good games in every tier level and for me that's the only thing I care about. I don't give a hoot if I win or lose as long as the match itself was fun and engaging (and not a stomp or get stomped for e-[Edited by Blizzard] borefest). And smurfing was nigh impossible too because winning or losing the match (oh lawd what insanity) wasn't important for the system, but your 50% LightningGun accuracy told the game you belong at least 3 tiers higher and that was the last match you could play on that level.
Call me old fashioned but I rather have fun while playing.

Forum Mod Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to language. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/code-of-conduct/
02/16/2018 07:57 AMPosted by MetalHead

I don't think it was a bad decision to go after the healers. That's what you're supposed to do. It made sense at the time. If I'd been on your team and realized what you were doing I might have tried to support your move. I don't know if that is so much "your fault" as it was a "save" by the enemy tanks. They actually had the game-sense to keep an eye on their healers (which is an extremely rare trait in my experience), and it took the element of surprise away from you. At worst, I could say that you should have realized sooner that you'd been out-flanked, and run for your life, but maybe you did and they caught you anyway. Sometimes, you do the right thing and still lose. Just like life. It's that kind of game.


Thank you that you exist, good Sir.
Take notes ladies and gentlemen, this is something the kids have never really learned, that not every time you got fragged, you screwed up, sometimes the other guy simply did something effing awesome, if you will.
Not every time your team gets steam rolled at a point your team !@#$ed up, sometimes everything just simply falls in line for the enemy, intentional or not.

Forgetting this breeds toxicity towards your teammates. You did everything you could so it must've been their fault.
This comes from mobas where it's heavily rooted in the game's mechanics to mark every time you get killed as "Feeding". You are such a worthless individual that you completely failed your team.!
Just because you got amazingly outplayed. Simply outplayed, or had bad luck.
For every guy that frags another guy has to get fragged.
02/16/2018 07:57 AMPosted by MetalHead
02/16/2018 01:19 AMPosted by LUCIF3R
It can be either or. Maybe it's you, perhaps someone on your team or possibly the enemy side just played better pure and simple. It's important to know when you didn't do well though or when mistakes were made.

Today on Oasis I was Tracer in a 1-1 Match. On the last point, we had 30% while the enemy team had 97%. We had just finally taken control of the point after being shutdown the entire round. For whatever reason, I thought it'd be smart to flank the Healers and pick one off as they were walking into the point from their side. That didn't happen. The tanks turned around and crushed me. It then was a 5v6 for my team, they lacked damage, were overrun and all died. We lost. Safe to say that it was my fault we lost. It wasn't entirely my fault that we were performing poorly all match, because I did have gold damage/kills/objective kill. That was an error in team synergy that created a close game such as it was. I was doing what I was supposed to and was playing well mechanically, but it didn't matter in the end because I caused the loss due to my bad decision during a close game when that particular moment mattered and that's what I am talking about. Moments matter in Overwatch and sometimes things are irreversibly decided.

If you can realistically asses what you delivered to the team and what you could've done differently, you'll go a long way.


I don't think it was a bad decision to go after the healers. That's what you're supposed to do. It made sense at the time. If I'd been on your team and realized what you were doing I might have tried to support your move. I don't know if that is so much "your fault" as it was a "save" by the enemy tanks. They actually had the game-sense to keep an eye on their healers (which is an extremely rare trait in my experience), and it took the element of surprise away from you. At worst, I could say that you should have realized sooner that you'd been out-flanked, and run for your life, but maybe you did and they caught you anyway. Sometimes, you do the right thing and still lose. Just like life. It's that kind of game.


Those are some rather strong points and an interesting way of looking at things. I agree.
The title is basically a strawman argument. No one in a sane mind will say that every single loss you take is entirely your fault. The 30-40-30 rule exist based on that assumption. Some games are just almost impossible to win, and some games are just almost impossible to lose.

The point is about realizing you can only control your own actions, and make the difference in the games where your own skills will be relevant to tilt the balance of the match in your team's favor. You can't physically take your Reinhardt's keyboard and make him walk where you want. You can make the decision to stick with him, or try to find a way to fight without his shield.

02/16/2018 08:14 AMPosted by tetsu
But why should I? Why should I grind horrible matches, or rather a terrible time just to maybe be able to get decent matchups at some point, and that is only IF you are right with what you are saying which is nothing but an assumption really.


There is basically three mentalities going in every match: The desire to win, the desire to get better, and the desire to have fun. Ideally, you should put them all in the same bag, and try to aim for all three in every match. Realistically, you will probably have to sacrifice one or two in some specific matches. The problem is when you sacrifice one of them in all matches.

People making smurfs to "get good" with a new hero (or heroes) are sacrificing the desire to win. They know they can win the fight if they switch to the hero they are used to play, but they want to get good on that specific hero they are training.

People playing to relax after a hard day are sacrificing the desire to get better. They don't want to stress themselves focusing all their mental effort. They just want to turn on a videogame and play on autopilot for some time.

People that stress themselves out because something that is out of their control is impacting the match in a negative way are sacrificing the fun. Unless you are a streamer or pro-player, Overwatch is not your job. Its your leisure time.

Playing with the specific purpose to climb SR don't really fit any of those. Because the best way to climb SR is not to get good. It's to game the system. And this is where the 30% winrate Mercy mains from pre-Valk fit in. They aren't good Mercy players (ergo the subpar winrate), many of them are not really having fun, and definitely they are not improving as a player. But they gamed the system to think they were performing a lot better than they really were.
if its my fault then its my fault. if its my teams fault its my teams fault
sometimes its no ones fault and the enemy team is simply better. nothing could be done to change that
02/16/2018 12:36 AMPosted by Solitara
"Every loss is your fault" isn't what is said.

"You are the only constant in your games" is the phrase. Its not the same thing.

People focus too much on individual games and not enough on the overall. So what if you lose a game to a thrower.

Your performance should lessen the blow of a loss as well as give greater gains for a win........if its not you aren't as good as you think.

When anyone starts going into explanations of specific situations "well the Reinhardt charges in and the mercy...blah....blah.....blah....just stop. STOP. all the games are the same. Every single one. They all have people doing dumb crap........every single one.....

Your rank is your own doing no one else but you. If you are a gold hanzo its because you play like 30,000 other gold hanzos. You want to be better than a gold hanzo then work on it and get better. Its only your own decisions limiting you.


Preach it, Brother.

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