Moira cannot be nerfed before Tracer is.

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Mobile dps have always been given slaps on the wrists as far as nerfs are concerned. If Moira gets nerfed and Tracer doesn't, I will quit Overwatch for good.
02/16/2018 05:49 PMPosted by Astrion
the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.


Haha nice analogy.
If she does get nerfed, I'd like it to be something like the recent Junkrat nerf. It's a "nerf" enough to satisfy everyone who's complaining, but still doesn't reduce his effectiveness.
yeah, all heroes need a reliable counter especially if they are strong.

Lets take roadhog for example. Roadhog is a very strong hero, because of this he has many counters which you must play to avoid getting steamrolled by him. He has his hard counters, Ana and sombra, and his soft counters, McCree, and another roadhog (they can cancel his healing) If a hero is really powerful, they need counters, this doesnt apply to tracer and genji. Tracer and genji only posses soft counters, which dont always work, thus they are called a soft counter. Moira is the closest we have to a hard genji counter, now we just need a hard tracer counter
02/16/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Crusher55
02/16/2018 06:00 PMPosted by Wraithdagger
I'm on the support side of the Support vs. DPS civil war, but Tracer is not overpowered; she just needs a reliable counter.
I'm on the tank side, aka the side that's being entertained by the "war". Please, continue. We haven't run out of popcorn yet.


I'm on the neutral side of the war, aka the side that's saying "Stop screaming at each other and try compromising".

Also, the tank side of the war has seen no military activity yet, though I'm sure someone will cite Tank nerfs to prove why DPS are horrible and launch an offensive soon.
Ok. Find me one SR where Tracer has a higher pickrate than Moira.

I’ll be waiting.

So many salty crybabies who are willing to give up on the game if Moira gets nerfed. Pathetic. Is this how you act when things don’t go your way? You go ahead and have a cry and throw all your toys out the pram? That’s pretty sad.
02/16/2018 05:59 PMPosted by ChillPill
Support has been dominating meta from the start how is this dpswatch


DPS is literally the biggest of the three roles.
The Majority of Players mains DPS and in QP its a common sight to have 4+ DPS on a team.
Supports have so far received the majority of substancial nerfs with barely any lasting decent buffs.
Ana's nerf killed the tank meta, which caused dive to rise and make her pretty much useless
Mercy got a rework a lot of Mercy players didn't even ask for that broke her, causing the devs to nerf her into the actually most boring character to play in Overwatch right now
Lucio's rework bascially made him more DPSy
Zen could pretty much fill a dps role as well
Moira was designed to be a dps/support hybrid and gets a ton of flak now since unlike Zen for example she isn't easy to dive on.

Hell, have you seen the OWL? How often did they go first person on a support?
Counters to Tracer's pulse bomb or significantly reduce it's effectiveness.

Zarya Bubble (Anyone), D.VA Defense Matrix (Anyone), Wraith Form, Fade, Transcendence (Zen only), Sound Barrier if timed extremely well (anyone in range), Primal Rage, Bastion's Tank Configuration, Roadhog's self heal, Orisa fortify, Sombra's translocate, Tracer's recall, Mei's ice block, Torb's ult, Doomfist's ult. Am I missing any?

Pretty sure Zarya can do her thing even after Tracer's stuck a target. No preemptive actions needed.

Things that can one shot Tracer.

Everything that can one shot 200 hp heroes. (D.VA bomb, scatter arrow, ect.)

Everything that can one shot only Tracer (Or.... Pilot D.va.. I guess). Mei's head shot, damage boosted Widowmaker/Hanzo body shots, damage boosted McCree headshots (no flashbang required!), damage boosted direct Junkrat grenades or mines, damage boosted direct Pharah rockets (make sure to dive down on her from above for maximum effectiveness and reduce projectile travel time!), Damage boosted Soldier: 76's direct helix rockets. Torb's alt fire (must land all pellets so get in close), Damage Boosted Torb primary headshots. Half charged Doomfist Rocket punch (Must have wall impact as well). Reaper landing 11 (one more than half the total amount) pellets as headshots or 16 pellets as body damage and 3 as headshots (that's right he still doesn't need to land all his pellets!), Roadhog landing all his pellets as body damage, or half as headshots. Damage boosted dragon blade. Remember no amount or mobility or Recalls will save you from getting one-shotted!

I'm sure there's tons more via combining damage boosting, discord and nano boost in various ways. Such as Reinhardt's melee (needs all three), or Fire Strike (just damage boost and discord.)

Nail in the coffin is a successful Sombra hack can take away her defenses to avoid all of this. If the buffs go through for Sombra it's GG Tracer.

Biggest thing I can say is Overwatch is a team game. Not 1v1 death match in a vacuum Fox only, no items, final destination. Tracer's mobility DOES NOT make her immune to damage at all or even abilities as I have been hooked and flash banged mid blink countless times. People like to argue that she can just blink and avoid damage acting like it somehow makes her immune to everything and that's all they need to argue. That's way too simplistic. That's not how it works in real game play, trust me.

Incidentally both Zarya and DV.A can stop Tracer from one clipping anyone.

She can't recall or blink out of flash bang/hook as an escape, she can only avoid it.

Neither her average 2.6 competitive kdr, 3.61% pick rate or 49.10% win rate suggests that she needs either counters or nerfs.

Hope this helps.
02/16/2018 07:25 PMPosted by Hayaishi
02/16/2018 05:49 PMPosted by Astrion
the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.


Haha nice analogy.


My history nerd side is giggling.
02/16/2018 06:00 PMPosted by Wraithdagger
I'm on the support side of the Support vs. DPS civil war, but Tracer is not overpowered; she just needs a reliable counter.

Sadly with her kit that's impossible unless someone had a lot based around high dmg ate a blasts akin to junkrat..

Her ability rewind her health and all make her hard to coujnter if u don't out right kill her.

Also I just hope if moira is nerfed...ppl just stop playing supports period.

Make the dps mains and blizz devs realize how they are needed and put more effort into balancing em.
Tracer main in QP here, reaching almost 100 hours on her and even though she is one of my favorite heroes in the game and Canon I cannot deny how strong her presence is in high tier games and OWL. One of the main reasons why I stopped watching OWL is because I know that they are going to use pratically the same comp no matter the situation and tbh, seeing tracers in every match is kind of obnoxious.
I would get very frustrated if the devs never acknowledged and tried to balance her impact and if they do nerf Moira, then it would be the last straw. I would hate them for pushing their nerfs live even though a big part of the community disagree and I would hate them even more for making me dislike the one hero that really got me in the game
It's just the woefully incorrect community perception of "skill".

Moira is to this day considered a "no skill aim lock hero" by many, while Tracer is the pinnacle of mechanical prowess. One is a support, other is a dps. The dps crowd will always be bigger and louder than the supports, and they are the toes that Moira steps on the most. None of those people care that supports get demolished by dps heroes in a game of mostly rock paper scissors, because they are the ones pulling the trigger, rather than the ones catching a bullet.

Moira has somewhat upset that pecking order by not being too easy to dive without thought (she is still very vulnerable to being dove, it just requires you to capitalize on her fade cooldown), and having a reasonable chance at fighting back via self sustain and reliable damage. Of course there was going to be an outcry by "skilled" flanker players when they have their first encounter with a support that isn't a sitting duck. Mercy's domination was achieved via the oppression of other supports, Moira's viability is via the suppression of dps players.

So yeah. I wouldn't be surprised to see Moira tuned down due to popular demand, which will absolutely sign Reinhardt's death warrant. Tracer is too big of a community icon to receive any scrutiny.
They aren't nerfing tracer directly. but they're buffing her counters. Sombra, Mei, and Torb are all being tested (we don't know whats in store for torb yet)
with buffs. Tracer's power as a hero is high, but her viability in the meta around her is surely decreasing. With dive becoming less and less powerful, support heroes will become stronger simply due to the meta around them
tbqh i think tracer is ok, cus low health.
hell, mei can one shot her.

btw, soldier is also well rounded. could use with different firing modes,but thats just my opinion.
If i had to say any character was op. I'd say Pharah
I dont really think genji is op except his !@#$ing jumping is annoying, which is where I go winston/symm and just spray him down.
Pharah, if ur good, has no decent/real counters.
You'll have to pick characters that have auto aim, soldier ulting/torb's turret
to do decent damage against her, if pharah has a pocket mercy which she will if they start losing. and if the pharah is gud, she'll focus down her counters while her team pushes so she can gain dominance over the situation which will greatly benefit her team.
02/16/2018 07:18 PMPosted by Vendamar
this event would be undeniable proof that the developers favor the fast-paced DPSwatch over a perfect system


This is not in question, it's been like that since the start, Tracer in particular is their favorite, even with all the posts about her being OP, then the pros say she needs a nerf, then the fact that her pickrate in the OWL is 70 !@#$ing percent with the second dps being less than 30%, and yet, they say nothing, do nothing, shes never mentioned or addressed in any way even thought is crystal clear that she is a problematic hero. Part of the problem is that she is popular, her mains will defend her at any cost and they are many, and like we all now popularity is a powerful weapon so it's going to be hard to get them to do something about her.
Mercy was very popular and they crapped all over her.
If you can't respect Blizzard's decisions to bring down overtuned heroes then stop whining and quit.
02/16/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Edsoulman
Ok. Find me one SR where Tracer has a higher pickrate than Moira.

I’ll be waiting.

So many salty crybabies who are willing to give up on the game if Moira gets nerfed. Pathetic. Is this how you act when things don’t go your way? You go ahead and have a cry and throw all your toys out the pram? That’s pretty sad.
I think its justified. Support is getting hit with the nerf hammer left and right. Moira needs to keep the way she is, so support isn't dead.
02/16/2018 05:49 PMPosted by Astrion
The resulting backdraft would end Overwatch.

If Moira is nerfed before there is any official mention of Tracer, or heroes like Genji or others, getting fixed, the outcry from healer mains everywhere would be gargantuan. The Healers vs DPS war is already escalating to dangerous levels, and is becoming unhealthy for the game. There's already a lot of tension between healers and DPS players, and having the only really good healer we have left nerfed before there's even an official statement on Tracer's strength will be the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.

The playerbase will be disparaged. Support players will revolt in whatever way they could, claim that this event would be undeniable proof that the developers favor the fast-paced DPSwatch over a perfect system. Whether or not people think they are correct, people who primarily play supports (who are still reeling from the issues with Mercy) will consider this the nail in the coffin for the state of balance in this game.

We all know this is going to be (relatively close) to what happens if Moira, the current best support, is brought to her knees before Tracer is. It will unravel the community, and will result in a lot of players deciding to leave rather than deal with this headache. It will bleed Overwatch out.


Neither needs any nerfs or buffs or changes at all.
I haven't played Moira that much, but I think she is fine as is. She kills me quite often when on the enemy team, but I don't care. I'v even killed her a lot too.
02/16/2018 05:49 PMPosted by Astrion
The resulting backdraft would end Overwatch.

If Moira is nerfed before there is any official mention of Tracer, or heroes like Genji or others, getting fixed, the outcry from healer mains everywhere would be gargantuan. The Healers vs DPS war is already escalating to dangerous levels, and is becoming unhealthy for the game. There's already a lot of tension between healers and DPS players, and having the only really good healer we have left nerfed before there's even an official statement on Tracer's strength will be the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.

The playerbase will be disparaged. Support players will revolt in whatever way they could, claim that this event would be undeniable proof that the developers favor the fast-paced DPSwatch over a perfect system. Whether or not people think they are correct, people who primarily play supports (who are still reeling from the issues with Mercy) will consider this the nail in the coffin for the state of balance in this game.

We all know this is going to be (relatively close) to what happens if Moira, the current best support, is brought to her knees before Tracer is. It will unravel the community, and will result in a lot of players deciding to leave rather than deal with this headache. It will bleed Overwatch out.


Yea...No offense dude, but I don't think sub-master level players like us should be talking about nerfing or buffing characters. Our game sense just isn't good enough to really judge whether a character should be altered because 9/10 times we are simply too trash to deal with that specific character. And from what I've heard the game is currently the most balanced it has ever been. So, calm yo azz down.

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