Your gold medals don't mean anything

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02/14/2018 11:03 AMPosted by Kry
If you won the round, is something still wrong? If you just got rolled the entire time, medals has nothing to do with it.


Nope. There's a certain amount of elims you can do even without a tank. The tank is there to give you space and provide more opportunities. It does not change the base elims a DPS can do even without a tank, DPS only comps do not have 0 kills.

02/14/2018 11:03 AMPosted by Kry
The reason why medals don't matter, is because its just far to easy to farm for medals.


Again, it's not farming when your main tank who already has very few elims, is the one getting gold.

You actually believe it's the tanks fault that he gets gold at 3 kills 3 minutes into the game? Seriously???
02/14/2018 11:29 AMPosted by Hajile
Again, it's not farming when your main tank who already has very few elims, is the one getting gold.

You actually believe it's the tanks fault that he gets gold at 3 kills 3 minutes into the game? Seriously???


Losing is never one person's fault, it always a combination of things. But a tank not playing correctly will definitely affect the rest of his team's stats.

The tank could have golds because hes feeding, and his team had no space to do anything.
The dps could be not capitalizing on the space the tank was creating.
Either way gold elims doesn't tell you which of these is happening.

If you're asking me if I would personally blame a tank for having gold elims at 3 in a losing game? No, because I try to avoid blaming teammates in general, there's always something I could have done better. I say this as someone who primarily has played tanks in comp this season. It's extremely common for me to have 3 or even 4 golds, because tanks have more health and can occupy situations dps characters can't. Tanks completely control the pace of the game, and are the real carry in Overwatch.

Edit:
Nope. There's a certain amount of elims you can do even without a tank. The tank is there to give you space and provide more opportunities. It does not change the base elims a DPS can do even without a tank, DPS only comps do not have 0 kills.


Maybe in lower ranks that's true, but have fun trying to do anything when a GM D.va and Winston have a tesla cannon shoved so far up your.... well you get the idea.
When I have 5 gold medals as Roadhog, I can infer something. It may not be "I am awesome" though, which is what most people imply.

Most of the time it means "my team sucks".
It would really be nice to show our teammates who's doing what, that way it can help better the team to see whether or not there's an issue rather than going on hearsay.

Yesterday I was playing as Roadhog and had gold in healing with a Moira, Lucio, and a Zenyatta on my team. Of course I get berated by my team for even mentioning it, which was very concerning me. I get that Roadhog can heal himself for 300 health with his "Take a Breather" ability, but a Moira can easily out heal that by her healing orb alone.

Some might say "Yeah right, I don't believe you", because my teammates can't see other players' medals. They can only assume based on theirs. Some might flat out lie (like usual), or others will just plain out get upset that someone's doing better and bragging. By no means was I bragging about getting gold in healing as a tank, I was actually concerned seeing how three support players who can really rack up the numbers were getting outhealed by a lonesome tank. And I don't even play as Roadhog that much!!! X-D I was merely showing these supporters that they're not really healing. Maybe they could start healing and we could win, but instead, I'm greeted to toxicity and griefing.

However, I can see the issue in having it be shown to teammates. I can see people trying to compete with their teammates on trying to out do them, and somehow play worse all because they want that gold medal. It would be a nice feature to see other players, but it can also be a bad one at the same time. Medals to me don't mean that much, I just care about scooting people off the point or riding the payload to victory. Others however, really care to want others to know "I have gold in this, this, and this." That doesn't provide helpful stuff to my teammates. It just leaves bitterness and anger which then causes most to just forget about the round and accept the loss.
Yeah, but when I get gold elims, heals, objective time, and damage as Moira, clear the point, win, and get Potg, that's a clear sign of something going on.
One gold medal isn't much, but a hero getting medals meant for others in qauntity is a shear sign of high skill or poor teammates. Luck and happenstance can only take you so far.
So if a guy on McCree has gold damage and elims while we have a Bastion on Junkertown Attack, it doesn't mean anything?
02/14/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Zeleros
So if a guy on McCree has gold damage and elims while we have a Bastion on Junkertown Attack, it doesn't mean anything?


No, that doesn't tell my anything about what happened in the game. Was the Bastion breaking shields and the McCree cleaned up? Was the Bastion getting pressured an drawing focus fire and the McCree was able to do what he wanted for free? Was the Bastion just really bad and couldn't hit shots? Was the McCree just really good and dominated the other team? Did your Orisa mess up her shield consistently getting the Bastion killed? Did you even have a shield for the Bastion? Medals tell me none of that.

My main point is this: There are several occasions that playing for medals is actually a detriment to your team (and not just side cases, but things that consistently happen on ladder). It is completely possible to have a good game with 0 medals.

I wouldn't ask my McCree, who completely shut out a Tracer to switch, just because he finished the round with 11 elims, even if I'm on D.va with gold elims at 28.
this is why we need a scoreboard like every other game has.
right now, people just insult each other with no actual knowledge. if we had that, the claims would be justified. whats wrong with the truth?
02/14/2018 08:15 AMPosted by Cloud
02/14/2018 08:13 AMPosted by Kry
...

They really can't, the only thing they indicate is if someone is stupid enough to bring them up.


Let's say we're 5 minutes into the game and I have gold dmg as Widow while we have a Soldier/Genji/Junkrat in our team. What does that say?
It means the Genji is not performing well and he should maybe switch to something else where he has more time to do dmg. There are many other examples but I think you get my point.


Wrong. You just proved that point that Medals are ridiculous. What if you had 8000 damage and a gold medal, and Genji has 7999. Now you're flaming him for sucking, causing everyone else to start bickering, losing focus, and throwing the game. You are literally what's wrong with the game, and proved why medals are dumb.
02/14/2018 08:15 AMPosted by Cloud
02/14/2018 08:13 AMPosted by Kry
...

They really can't, the only thing they indicate is if someone is stupid enough to bring them up.


Let's say we're 5 minutes into the game and I have gold dmg as Widow while we have a Soldier/Genji/Junkrat in our team. What does that say?
It means the Genji is not performing well and he should maybe switch to something else where he has more time to do dmg. There are many other examples but I think you get my point.

That means you aren’t securing kills as a sniper most likely. You’re just feeding the supports ult. You’re a sniper why do you have gold damage?
Sorry, but if 2 other Dps on my team are blaming me for losing, or accusing me of throwing just for playing an offmeta character while I have 3-4 golds, then I'm PRETTY sure that is a good indicator that I'm doing a hell of a lot more than them. The stats don't lie. Golds aren't everything, but when you have 3-4, you KNOW you're carrying well over your own weight, that's just an irrefutable fact.
If Reaper has gold healing, something's wrong.
02/14/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Cloud
They are not accurate but can be an indicator on what's up. They mean something.
You can see if you should switch things up or not.

I don't think you read the "People need to stop referring to medals when flaming teammates or making excuses for not switching" part of the post... It's clear they meant medals mean jack squat in terms of who's doing what in the grand scheme of things (it's more like a vague guide, like using your body's temperature to determine what kind of illness you might have or not).

Or in short, a Moira with gold elims/silver dmg shouldn't screech "omg dps step it up I'm doing everything omgggg you guys suxxxx!!!"

Er... To be fair, nobody should be flaming anybody. Toxicity should not be tolerated or endorsed in any form.
02/14/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Kry
No, that doesn't tell my anything about what happened in the game. Was the Bastion breaking shields and the McCree cleaned up? Was the Bastion getting pressured an drawing focus fire and the McCree was able to do what he wanted for free? Was the Bastion just really bad and couldn't hit shots? Was the McCree just really good and dominated the other team? Did your Orisa mess up her shield consistently getting the Bastion killed? Did you even have a shield for the Bastion? Medals tell me none of that.


While true, the position of what was posed to you comes from the perspective of someone that is in the match. So, you would already have the answers for at least most of these questions if you were paying attention. As such, you can't simply discount it on the basis that medals alone don't tell you to answer it.
02/14/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Kry
My main point is this: There are several occasions that playing for medals is actually a detriment to your team (and not just side cases, but things that consistently happen on ladder). It is completely possible to have a good game with 0 medals.
I'm having a hard time picturing how someone plays for medals. If they dive in repeatedly and feed, they won't be doing big damage or getting kills, 'cause the opposing team will eat their lunch. The only realistic scenario I can think of off the top of my head where someone is "playing for medals" would be in those weird instances where you have something like a Moira that refuses to use her healing orb, 'cause she wants damage and elims. Other than that, you just have these random bads that want to try and go rambo 1v6 against the opposing team... and your team is a horribly bad position if none of the other 5 people can outperform that 1 person.

I will gladly support the notion that people can have dramatic impacts and great games without getting a medal though. I've seen it done, and I've done it. It often seems like the higher up the ladder you go, it's much less about the statistical values associated with stats, and more about the timing of those stats. (Example: Having 18 elims in a round that are spread out and don't enable your team to push are likely less valuable than the 4 elims that someone puts up with an ult that allows you to take a point.)
While true, the position of what was posed to you comes from the perspective of someone that is in the match. So, you would already have the answers for at least most of these questions if you were paying attention. As such, you can't simply discount it on the basis that medals alone don't tell you to answer it.


"Our dps were bad and didn't do anything, we lost."
"Our dps didn't have medals, were bad, and didn't do anything, we lost."
Those are both pretty much the same statement, but the medals part adds 0 meaning or significance.

Yes, you have to be in or watch a match to see what was actually happening in the match, because medals show very little to what was going on and can actually be misleading.

If you have to provide tons of extra context and reasoning to support the idea of medals telling a story, are they really able to tell a story?
02/14/2018 12:54 PMPosted by Kry
If you have to provide tons of extra context and reasoning to support the idea of medals telling a story, are they really able to tell a story?
Medals provide the evidence to support your personal experience inside of a match where a scoreboard doesn't exist. It is the closest thing to objective information you can actually have as a member of the team.

So, while I don't disagree that medals are simultaneously limited in scope and continually misused, that does not rob them of having any purpose at all.
02/14/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Sheevah
02/14/2018 12:54 PMPosted by Kry
If you have to provide tons of extra context and reasoning to support the idea of medals telling a story, are they really able to tell a story?
Medals provide the evidence to support your personal experience inside of a match where a scoreboard doesn't exist. It is the closest thing to objective information you can actually have as a member of the team.

So, while I don't disagree that medals are simultaneously limited in scope and continually misused, that does not rob them of having any purpose at all.


I see what you're saying but this is basically my line of thought:
Winning in Overwatch comes down to winning team fights -> A game where any one person on your team can cause you to lose a team fight -> Your team isn't going to get high stats without winning team fights -> Your stats are directly connected to how well your team is performing and whether you are able to win team fights -> Medals are a very limited display of stats -> If you don't have medals and have bad stats, it isn't fully in your hands -> Medals have very little meaning.

Edit:
Just to clarify, losing team fights can cause players to have low stats, so why do people want to focus on players having low stats. Isn't it more beneficial to focus on WHY you lost the team fight, instead of just the results of losing team fights. It could be the dps's fault, it could be the tank's fault, it could be the support's fault. Medals don't tell you the story.
I wish this game just showed a scoreboard because the gold medals don't teach players !@#$! Look golds 5 but getting 5 kills shouldn't be the golden standard now should it?

Sure it can show that the DPS still sucks. However, being able to see the players K/D/A would be better! Not only would we see their kills on average but their deaths as well and with this information we can find out who is more suited for what role but HEY! Let's not do that because triggered special snowflakes wouldn't like that now would they?

Guess people don't like hearing that they are "bad" again a KDA could also help people strive to improve and emulate a pros record like "good" S.76's normally get 3.0 KD or something.
I see what you're saying but this is basically my line of thought:
Winning in Overwatch comes down to winning team fights -> A game where any one person on your team can cause you to lose a team fight -> Your team isn't going to get high stats without winning team fights -> Your stats are directly connected to how well your team is performing and whether you are able to win team fights -> Medals are a very limited display of stats -> If you don't have medals and have bad stats, it isn't fully in your hands -> Medals have very little meaning.

Edit:
Just to clarify, losing team fights can cause players to have low stats, so why do people want to focus on players having low stats. Isn't it more beneficial to focus on WHY you lost the team fight, instead the just the results of losing team fights. It could be the dps's fault, it could be the tank's fault, it could be the support's fault. Medals don't tell you the story.


FWIW: I completely agree with what you're presenting.

The issue comes into play with playing with random people that do not have that outlook on it. I'm too lazy to check, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're probably a higher ranked person than I am. I've been pretty much everywhere from 1500 to 2800, and people that I have played with cannot/do not consistently or properly identify and/or communicate the actual causes for losing team fights. Heck, half of the fights that go on couldn't even be described as team fights, as that implies your team is actually pushing as a unit.

So, when you are left to deal with the chaos of general play that most of the player base experiences, you are effectively left in a scenario where you have to depend on medals (which is admittedly a terrible metric) to piece together a story of what small portions of your pushes/defenses are actually having any impact at all, because the basic strategies of comparing comps, maps, team pushes, ult economy, etc. are a lost cause with the average team.

So, in the absence of those more important and meaningful topics to tackle, in steps the only objective feedback players have - medals. Medals, while a horrible metric, do carry meaning, even if it isn't the meaning that the people talking about having them usually argue for/against. When applied in the context of a match, they can readily identify glaring weaknesses in your team in some scenarios (Rein having gold damage in a scenario where you can't make it through a choke typically means your team's Rein is going way too aggro or the DPS aren't doing their jobs if you have competent healers, as an example). If you put yourself or me inside that match, we likely wouldn't need to be told Rein has gold damage to identify that problem, but the problem doesn't exist in the minds of some people until they hear that part... and you need your teammates to understand that you're having those problems in the lower ranks, 'cause unless you have the mechanical skills to carry it yourself, you're either going to give communicating and adapting with your team a shot, or just buckle up, eat the loss, and prepare for the next game.

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