Why do people keep saying Winston soft counters Genji?

General Discussion
He's not a soft counter, he's a counter in every sense.

  • Genji does not have the damage to burst down a Winston before Winston can kill him.
  • Genji can't deflect Winston's damage.
  • Winston's autoaim gun makes Genji's cyber-agility pretty much useless.
  • Even if he dashes to escape, Winston can leap further and higher than Genji can travel with SS. It's also on a shorter cooldown.
  • Winston's ultimate is so good at CC a good one can completely negate Dragonblade by himself because of how fast he can get around the map.


People don't seem to understand: Genji isn't run in a dive because he's good against Winston, it's because he synergizes almost perfectly with him.

The aim of dive isn't to protect Genji but even if it were, discord orb along with Tracer, D.va and Zenyatta's incredibly high damage make it impossible for Winston to dive a protected Genji.

In isolation, Winston wins literally every time. If you lose against a Genji as Winston, you should probably never play the character again.
Well there's this thing called map geometry. Winston is a counter on paper, that's it.
I guess because he doesn't directly disable deflect and stuff, and people really hate that ability for some reason.
Because you have idiots who pick Winston when Genji is a problem and think Winston's mere presence will make them win instead of trying to play him the right way.
Watch the pro games. I have frequently seen a Genji chunk a Winston then get away taking very little damage.
Winston cant keep up with genji even with his jump. For one he cant direct it like genji can, genji can also wallclimb and has higher movement speed. He is a soft counter because genji can operate like normal even with a winston. Not to mention if it resets etc.
Winston counter if genji's swift strike is on cooldown
The 1v1 matchup doesn't decide whether a hero is a counter or not. Mercy loses a 1v1 to basically any DPS hero, but that doesn't mean that she's countered by them. She serves a different role in the actual fight.

Likewise. Genji's role isn't to kill Winston. He's supposed to harass Squishies and finish off low-health targets. If Genji Right-Click>Dash combos Winston's healer, it doesn't matter how much he can zap the Ninja since his Zenyatta's dead now.

If Winston is standing next to his supports at all times, then yes, it becomes a little difficult for Genji to get a pick without dying. But then Winston can't dive the enemy team either since he's stuck peeling for his Supports.

Genji is only countered by Winston in a 1v1. It's not about the damage output, it's about who can do their job as a hero.
genji mobility is a lot bigger then winston and a keep distance
02/14/2018 01:02 AMPosted by Promethian
Watch the pro games. I have frequently seen a Genji chunk a Winston then get away taking very little damage.


Is competitive even close to pro gaming in terms of communication? I'm not a genji main and I find him boring to play, but usually he asks for heal or backup and the most are not even aware where he is after his dash out.

Chasing Genji in pro scene, lets your backlines vulnerable to enemy Widow, DVa, Tracer or Pharah. Do not forget that Winston holds the only team shield available in a dive composition.
02/14/2018 01:08 AMPosted by Poro
genji mobility is a lot bigger then winston and a keep distance


No Genji can't keep his distance from a Winston that has good cooldown management. No hero can.

The whole premise of dive is that you literally can't choose your distance of engagement against Winston.
02/14/2018 12:58 AMPosted by LilD
Well there's this thing called map geometry. Winston is a counter on paper, that's it.


What does this even mean? That the most mobile tank in the game is restricted by map geometry?

How did this even get upvotes lol it's such a vague statement
02/14/2018 01:08 AMPosted by Poro
genji mobility is a lot bigger then winston and a keep distance


But that's how he counters him, he creates a space were genji naturally doesn't want to go in he doesn't have to kill him all do he can easily do that, it's funny how people who call him a "soft counter" haven't really tried playing Winston
Winston has more counters and a bigger hitbox.

Sure he can be a counter to Genji, but not a reliable one. And a smart Genji works around Winston.
Disclaimer: This is just my experience at Platinum so idk exactly how it is everywhere else, but...

He's definitely one of Genji's biggest counters if not the biggest (I main Genji, but use Winston as my counter to enemy Genjis all the time), but it depends on how both characters are playing against each other.

Its possible to mostly ignore an enemy Winston's dives as Genji by dashing and wallclimbing away from him, but you have to be aware of where he is at all times because many times he is able to close the gap before you can get away or get support. This can negate a lot of your impact as Genji though if you aren't able to dive the enemy backline as often because their Winston is playing smart.

As a Winston you really just need to be persistent and keep chasing or targeting the enemy Genji. If they aren't retreating back to their team or getting much support from their team then you can pretty much dive him to your hearts content and get the upper hand a large majority of the time.

There's obviously a lot of different variables and situations, but to summarize:
a good Winston often has an easy time bullying an average to below average Genji. Good Genjis should be able to usually keep their distance from Winston or help burst him down with their team with right-clicks and stuff.
Mobility my friend.
If you stick around to 1v1 a Winston at close range - then... well... good luck.

Meanwhile hardcounters are like
Pharah counter Reaper because there is no way Reaper could reach Pharah.

Winston counter Symm because Symm cannot outdamage Winston and Symm cannot escape Winston either.
People call Winston a soft-counter because he doesnt hard-counter Genji.

Lets look at a good example of a hard counter. Pharah hard-counters Junkrat because theres nothing Junkrat can do against Pharah, with a team or no. Hes out-ranged and outgunned, Pharah will win that fight nearly every time. Widow hard-counters Pharah because the range and DPS is in Widows favor. Even skills on both sides, Widow wins. A big part of this is hero role, Pharah and Widow are both designed to kill, thats their role. Other examples of hard-counters (heros who completely shut down another) include Sombra to Doomfist, Soldier to Junkrat, Reaper to Roadhog, Zarya to D.Va

A soft-counter is just good against someone, not designed to dominate them. Winston soft-counters Genji because his auto-targeting gun and decent mobility give him a better chance against the jumping robot, but better chance != counter. Complicating things is the fact that Genji has all-around better mobility than Winston, and that Winston IS NOT meant to be solely chasing around Genji being a tank. Similar examples of a soft-counter (i.e a hero who has the advantage on paper, but less so in practice) are McCree to Tracer, Mei to Genji, Tracer to tanks, Moira to flankers, Doomfist to Tracer. With all those pairs, the one doing the countering has a theoretical advantage, but in practice the fight is anything but a sure thing
Gee, Genji can't deflect Winston? Welcome to every other character in the game.
Winston isn't considered a hard-counter, because while he generally does win a duel against Genji his playstyle doesn't really lend itself to defending his backline against Genji.

Winston typically has to play aggressive to get value. He gets far more value from trading healers than he does from preventing his own healers from dying, and works far better as a synergy with Genji than a counter to him.

Moira's a much better example of a solid Genji counter. Her beam can punish him with his high mobility + deflect, and the amount of healing she can pump out on both herself and her co-healer means that Genji has to combo near perfectly to get kills with a Moira properly defending her backline (at least until he farms a Dragonblade).
02/14/2018 01:06 AMPosted by da1337Noooob


Likewise. Genji's role isn't to kill Winston. He's supposed to harass Squishies and finish off low-health targets. If Genji Right-Click>Dash combos Winston's healer, it doesn't matter how much he can zap the Ninja since his Zenyatta's dead now.

If Winston is standing next to his supports at all times, then yes, it becomes a little difficult for Genji to get a pick without dying. But then Winston can't dive the enemy team either since he's stuck peeling for his Supports.

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And then you give your Genji a harmony orb or Ana shoots him every few seconds, hope theres no health packs close by or Mercy taps him every few seconds, (if she really cant dive with him safely but on most maps and matchups she can, at the very least she will be able to get in range for the beam to connect and stay connected for a bit to keep him topped off), and he actually doesnt care about Winstons dmg and now your winston and your supports spent all this time trying to deal with a genji while your team is dying to the rest of their team.

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