Moira isn’t the reason for Ana’s underperformance

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Highly Rated
Just wanted to point this out because it’s really important to stress that blaming other healers for Ana’s poor state right now isn’t the right way to approach the problem.

Using Moira as a scapegoat, and all the healers for that matter, to explain why Ana is in a bad state right now is going to result in some unwanted consequences if this keeps up. Nerfing the other supports to make Ana on par with them isn’t the solution.

I, as much as the next person, wholeheartedly agree that Ana needs help, but not at the cost of nerfing other supports.
Theres this great post from an Ana main that highlights this when it came to Mercy before that I recommend people to read.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760997607?page=1

It applied to Mercy and its now applying to Moira
It's true though, Moira is all around better than Ana. This doesn't mean that Moira needs a nerf, but the opposite, Ana needs a buff.
The dps nerf supports campaign will never end till supports are virtually powerless and useless
02/18/2018 12:38 PMPosted by dad
It's true though, Moira is all around better than Ana. This doesn't mean that Moira needs a nerf, but the opposite, Ana needs a buff.


Which is exactly what I said. Moira being better makes her a more reliable pick. Key word: reliable. The same thing applied to, and still applies, to Mercy. You currently have no reason to pick Ana over Mercy or Moira, even Lucio and Zen for that matter. The utility she brings right now is just not on par with the other supports.

But that says nothing about the other 4 healers, but rather that Ana’s kit is lacking. Nerfing 4 healers to make Ana better is an abysmal thought, and it would be much easier to just buff Ana by herself.
If Ana had some form of sustain, a mobility option to reach high ground, or a more reliable sleep dart then she wouldn't be having all the issues she has.
Yes it's not Moira, it's Winston and DVa. The people on this forum helped create this situation by getting Hog nerfed after giving Winston survivability buffs
Ana has the lowest WR on PS4/XB because she takes aim to heal.
You know who also has the lowest WRs on XB/PS4?
WM and Hanzo
02/18/2018 12:31 PMPosted by VMajoris
Using Moira as a scapegoat, and all the healers for that matter, to explain why Ana is in a bad state right now is going to result in some unwanted consequences if this keeps up.


I'm not very sure the consequences will be "unwanted" at that point. There's a strong anti-Moira movement, that will posture for any cause as long as it might get Moira nerfed.
02/18/2018 01:14 PMPosted by Tarshaid
02/18/2018 12:31 PMPosted by VMajoris
Using Moira as a scapegoat, and all the healers for that matter, to explain why Ana is in a bad state right now is going to result in some unwanted consequences if this keeps up.


I'm not very sure the consequences will be "unwanted" at that point. There's a strong anti-Moira movement, that will posture for any cause as long as it might get Moira nerfed.


The general consensus of Moira is that she is a very balanced, extremely fun hero to play. She’s been the best post-release hero by a large margin, and is loved by many support (and non-support) players. The vocal minority of the forums does not represent the general overview of Moira.

The people asking for nerfs get downvoted into oblivion, and have absolutely zero logical reasoning to explain why she needs to be nerfed. The only basis on why Moira could possibly get nerfed is because Blizzard feels like she needs one, and at that point, it would become very clear they don’t care what we think. It’s just a few select Genji mains that can handle the idea of being countered, and others that like to jump on the bandwagon that scream for nerfs on whatever is the flavor of the month.

So no, they would be very unwanted.
02/18/2018 12:38 PMPosted by Crestren
Theres this great post from an Ana main that highlights this when it came to Mercy before that I recommend people to read.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760997607?page=1

It applied to Mercy and its now applying to Moira


*Blushes furiously*

How sweet of you! I want to recommend anything written by EpsilonKey14 on the subject, so many good posts about Ana (that I can't find right now, curses!).
The thing is, people aren't asking for Blizzard to nerf all of the other supports. They're asking for the characters that infringe upon Ana's utility to be brought in line with the rest of the cast. Right now the characters that prevent Ana from being better are the characters that fill her role better than she does, which is what Mercy did and now what Moira does, and the characters that actively counter her but not the other supports, which is what D.Va and Winston have done ever since they've both been buffed.

I honestly don't think any buffs to Ana would ever stop those 3 characters from making her obsolete unless the buffs were so extreme that she herself became OP. That's why I think that this issue should be approached from multiple angles.
02/18/2018 01:39 PMPosted by Rob
The thing is, people aren't asking for Blizzard to nerf all of the other supports. They're asking for the characters that infringe upon Ana's utility to be brought in line with the rest of the cast. Right now the characters that prevent Ana from being better are the characters that fill her role better than she does, which is what Mercy did and now what Moira does, and the characters that actively counter her but not the other supports, which is what D.Va and Winston have done ever since they've both been buffed.

I honestly don't think any buffs to Ana would ever stop those 3 characters from making her obsolete unless the buffs were so extreme that she herself became OP. That's why I think that this issue should be approached from multiple angles.


To start of, Ana and Mercy don't fill the same role at all besides being considered main healers. You pick Mercy for stability and, before the rework, because she had a great defensive ult while you pick Ana for burst heal and utility.

Moira can burst heal (although not as well as Ana) but she does not provide utility. She's like an opposite of Zen, much healing with a bit of damage, when Zen provides a lot of damage and a little heals (and an amazing defensive ult to boot).

Moira does better because she has what Ana lacks - mobility and self sustain. Not to mention an ult that can be gained pretty fast and can be used both offensively and defensively. Give some of that to Ana and you will see just how powerful she can be.
I think the issue with supports is that they just aren't powerful enough at the same time. And when one of them does become powerful (Ana in Triple Tank, Mercy Valkyrie buffs, Lucio's 100% speed boost, and now Moira) it makes them stand out from the rest of the bunch and makes them dominate. Unless Overwatch adds ten more supports, what needs to happen is the playing field has to be leveled as best as possible. Ana is bad. So buff her. Give her lower cool downs, a faster reload speed, a bigger clip, some self sustain, some mobility. There are endless possibilities.
02/18/2018 01:54 PMPosted by QuizzyBunny
02/18/2018 01:39 PMPosted by Rob
The thing is, people aren't asking for Blizzard to nerf all of the other supports. They're asking for the characters that infringe upon Ana's utility to be brought in line with the rest of the cast. Right now the characters that prevent Ana from being better are the characters that fill her role better than she does, which is what Mercy did and now what Moira does, and the characters that actively counter her but not the other supports, which is what D.Va and Winston have done ever since they've both been buffed.

I honestly don't think any buffs to Ana would ever stop those 3 characters from making her obsolete unless the buffs were so extreme that she herself became OP. That's why I think that this issue should be approached from multiple angles.


To start of, Ana and Mercy don't fill the same role at all besides being considered main healers. You pick Mercy for stability and, before the rework, because she had a great defensive ult while you pick Ana for burst heal and utility.

Moira can burst heal (although not as well as Ana) but she does not provide utility. She's like an opposite of Zen, much healing with a bit of damage, when Zen provides a lot of damage and a little heals (and an amazing defensive ult to boot).

Moira does better because she has what Ana lacks - mobility and self sustain. Not to mention an ult that can be gained pretty fast and can be used both offensively and defensively. Give some of that to Ana and you will see just how powerful she can be.


Moira, Mercy and Ana all fill the same role in that they are main healers. They obviously have nuances in their kits, but their primary function is to do high single target healing. You clearly knew what I meant.

And I've seen how good Ana can be. She's basically had everything that you're asking for and she was the must-pick healer at that time. I don't think that we should use what is best, or what is worst as a standard for how the game should be balanced, which is why I suggested that Blizzard look at this from multiple angles. I think that's perfectly reasonable. Slight nerfs to the characters that give Ana a hard time, slight nerfs to the character that is the more valuable pick than Ana in 90% of situations, and slight buffs to Ana so the gap becomes even smaller. I don't think giving Ana a ton of buffs and propelling her to the top is the way to go. We already saw what happened when they did that to Mercy.
02/18/2018 02:10 PMPosted by Rob
02/18/2018 01:54 PMPosted by QuizzyBunny
...

To start of, Ana and Mercy don't fill the same role at all besides being considered main healers. You pick Mercy for stability and, before the rework, because she had a great defensive ult while you pick Ana for burst heal and utility.

Moira can burst heal (although not as well as Ana) but she does not provide utility. She's like an opposite of Zen, much healing with a bit of damage, when Zen provides a lot of damage and a little heals (and an amazing defensive ult to boot).

Moira does better because she has what Ana lacks - mobility and self sustain. Not to mention an ult that can be gained pretty fast and can be used both offensively and defensively. Give some of that to Ana and you will see just how powerful she can be.


Moira, Mercy and Ana all fill the same role in that they are main healers. They obviously have nuances in their kits, but their primary function is to do high single target healing. You clearly knew what I meant.

And I've seen how good Ana can be. She's basically had everything that you're asking for and she was the must-pick healer at that time. I don't think that we should use what is best, or what is worst as a standard for how the game should be balanced, which is why I suggested that Blizzard look at this from multiple angles. I think that's perfectly reasonable. Slight nerfs to the characters that give Ana a hard time, slight nerfs to the character that is the more valuable pick than Ana in 90% of situations, and slight buffs to Ana so the gap becomes even smaller. I don't think giving Ana a ton of buffs and propelling her to the top is the way to go. We already saw what happened when they did that to Mercy.


All I can say to you is if Moira existed during Triple Tank, there would be absolutely no reason to pick Ana over her - and in that case, Moira would have been the one butchered with nerfs, not Ana. So the point is, Ana was only good because she was able to keep up three tanks. But if Moira existed, she would be able to do the same, but 10 times better, AND get more value out of it.
It doesn't matter if there are better supports or not, that has never been Ana's problem - Ana has a negative win rate across all tiers, this has happened ever since she got the nerf bat handed to her, and hasn't changed since then. It wasn't nonmeta Mercy with the 5 man rez that changed that, nor was it meta Mercy with her new Valkyrie and Rez, nor is Moira as the new meta now.

Ana needs to get looked at, she is currently in a really poor state, but the devs seem afraid to buff her, since they probably don't want to bring back the triple tank meta comp from the old days. But nothing excuses her negative win rate and bad pick rate, she's really in need of a small buff and some QoL changes. It wouldn't make sense for them to nerf balanced characters (like increasing shield cool down on characters) just to make Ana more viable, that would be unbalancing the rest of the heroes cast.
Ana is underperforming because winston and D.va are overpowered.
02/18/2018 01:39 PMPosted by Rob
The thing is, people aren't asking for Blizzard to nerf all of the other supports. They're asking for the characters that infringe upon Ana's utility to be brought in line with the rest of the cast. Right now the characters that prevent Ana from being better are the characters that fill her role better than she does, which is what Mercy did and now what Moira does, and the characters that actively counter her but not the other supports, which is what D.Va and Winston have done ever since they've both been buffed.

I honestly don't think any buffs to Ana would ever stop those 3 characters from making her obsolete unless the buffs were so extreme that she herself became OP. That's why I think that this issue should be approached from multiple angles.


Thank you for speaking sense. People just want so much power creep because they don't see what it did in the case of Winston and DVa. An Ana who can deal with WInston and DVa as they currently are would be extremely OP considering what her kit. The annoying thing is people can't look beyond just blindly buffing a support instead of considering the two tanks that are making her and must other tanks meaningless.

This will predictably get dislikes but this palce has a hard on for buffing supports. When Mercy was OP there was no absence of "Just buff other healers to her level" and now the hero to buff to is suddenly Moira? Doesn't that mean the previous suggestions would have made the healers OP? Not around here it doesn't
Oh, first it was Mercy, now its Moira, who is next? Zen or Lucio?...

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