support sr still broken?

Competitive Discussion
So today ai was playing with a friend. He played mostly dp and D.va while I played support and Tank. Generally, my stats were better than his. Like my elims and damage would be equal or even superior to his, and obviously my healing was better yet he gained twice as much SR than I did. Admitted he also lost twice as much but still, what's happening there? Are supports still getting screwed in the sr system?
Got nothing to do with being a support. Lots of different factors can impact it, playing support is not one of them.
You're kidding right? Do you honestly think your personal stats reflect the performance of an entire group?

Btw the system evaluates you are more than just elims, damage, and healing, you're ignoring a multitude of factors.
02/18/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Amerasian
You're kidding right? Do you honestly think your personal stats reflect the performance of an entire group?

Btw the system evaluates you are more than just elims, damage, and healing, you're ignoring a multitude of factors.

Yes but... what? This is a genuine question. Using my transcendence/coalescence mid teamfight to turn the tide? Heal my hog who is ulting so he can keep his teamwipe going with his whole hog?
Soundbarrier nullifying a rip tire? Emp the whole cheese leading in a teamwipe?

I literally did all those things. We played rhe same match. We both contributed to the win and suffered the loss. Why does he win AND lose twice as much?
My real issue is with the lack of transparency, I really don't understand...
02/18/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Amerasian
Do you honestly think your personal stats reflect the performance of an entire group?


I mean if they're the only healer in their group....also isn't that the whole point of the performance based SR? You gain more SR if you PERFORM better than someone else on your team?
02/18/2018 05:04 PMPosted by Rohkah
02/18/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Amerasian
You're kidding right? Do you honestly think your personal stats reflect the performance of an entire group?

Btw the system evaluates you are more than just elims, damage, and healing, you're ignoring a multitude of factors.

Yes but... what? This is a genuine question. Using my transcendence/coalescence mid teamfight to turn the tide? Heal my hog who is ulting so he can keep his teamwipe going with his whole hog?
Soundbarrier nullifying a rip tire? Emp the whole cheese leading in a teamwipe?

I literally did all those things. We played rhe same match. We both contributed to the win and suffered the loss. Why does he win AND lose twice as much?
My real issue is with the lack of transparency, I really don't understand...


There is public information about it, but I'm gonna quote myself from another post on what I think of said public information about how the PBSR system works:

02/17/2018 12:07 AMPosted by Paul
02/16/2018 10:02 PMPosted by Hun
...

Why is it that people are so ignorant and prefer to not look up public information? DPS does not get more SR for a win, it's PBSR so it depends on the hero you pick and whether you perform above average at your current rank with said hero.

The public information is vague at best, and convoluted at worst in terms of explanation on how it works.
02/18/2018 05:17 PMPosted by Chicken
02/18/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Amerasian
Do you honestly think your personal stats reflect the performance of an entire group?


I mean if they're the only healer in their group....also isn't that the whole point of the performance based SR? You gain more SR if you PERFORM better than someone else on your team?


That's not how performance based SR works....

Performance based SR works by looking at you, and comparing you to the average person playing that hero at that rank. It has nothing to do with your team.
02/18/2018 05:04 PMPosted by Rohkah
02/18/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Amerasian
You're kidding right? Do you honestly think your personal stats reflect the performance of an entire group?

Btw the system evaluates you are more than just elims, damage, and healing, you're ignoring a multitude of factors.

Yes but... what? This is a genuine question. Using my transcendence/coalescence mid teamfight to turn the tide? Heal my hog who is ulting so he can keep his teamwipe going with his whole hog?
Soundbarrier nullifying a rip tire? Emp the whole cheese leading in a teamwipe?

I literally did all those things. We played rhe same match. We both contributed to the win and suffered the loss. Why does he win AND lose twice as much?
My real issue is with the lack of transparency, I really don't understand...


So what? every healer does those things.
Pbsr is hot garbage. I hope it goes for all tiers season 9.
Here are some questions:

1. What is your SR and what is their SR?

2. How often do you play and how often do they play?

If your friend has a lower SR then you then they are going to automatically get more SR because the average team SR is likely going to be an average of your SR values. You are playing in an SR range lower then you so it will handicap your SR gains. Your friend however will be playing above their SR so the system will reward them more. If this is the case your SR will eventually converge and you will start to gain close to the same amounts.

The second point could also be relevant. If you play lots of games the system is more confident in your placement so even though you may have an amazing game or play, you would need to have those games and plays consistently before the system loses confidence. If your friend has not played for a while the system has less confidence in their placement and is more apt to move the SR faster towards their MMR.

There are just so many factors and contingencies in the matchmaker and SR system to work around the fact that we as humans have veriable performance. We could have an amazing game and think it's because we are amazing but in reality it's because we were either just on a good day or we caught the enemy on a bad day. We have the bias of thinking that means we should be climbing faster but the system is designed with checks and balances to remove the bias and ensure we are performing consistantly at that rate before it decides to move us. It also make sure that we can't take advantage of the system by stacking with a lower SR friend to get SR while playing lower skilled opponents. It accounts for that by making you lose more SR so that the behaviour of doing it for free SR is discouraged.
02/18/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Paul
02/18/2018 05:04 PMPosted by Rohkah
...
Yes but... what? This is a genuine question. Using my transcendence/coalescence mid teamfight to turn the tide? Heal my hog who is ulting so he can keep his teamwipe going with his whole hog?
Soundbarrier nullifying a rip tire? Emp the whole cheese leading in a teamwipe?

I literally did all those things. We played rhe same match. We both contributed to the win and suffered the loss. Why does he win AND lose twice as much?
My real issue is with the lack of transparency, I really don't understand...


There is public information about it, but I'm gonna quote myself from another post on what I think of said public information about how the PBSR system works:

02/17/2018 12:07 AMPosted by Paul
...
The public information is vague at best, and convoluted at worst in terms of explanation on how it works.
the oroblem with that: as you said oublic information is vague and bugged lately. I would use overbuff but it says BS lately. I have apparently 90+% accuracy on 5 heroes I never play, an average elim rate of 50 kills with some etc. I don't know why it does that.

However, I still do flex. I forgot this always ruins your SR gains. My friend usually stays on his hero.

02/18/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Amerasian
02/18/2018 05:04 PMPosted by Rohkah
...
Yes but... what? This is a genuine question. Using my transcendence/coalescence mid teamfight to turn the tide? Heal my hog who is ulting so he can keep his teamwipe going with his whole hog?
Soundbarrier nullifying a rip tire? Emp the whole cheese leading in a teamwipe?

I literally did all those things. We played rhe same match. We both contributed to the win and suffered the loss. Why does he win AND lose twice as much?
My real issue is with the lack of transparency, I really don't understand...


So what? every healer does those things.


So every healer in gold does on console does those things after getting comms telling him some of the teammates are low, or reaper is about to come down with ult etc? Damn i would LOVE to have your games in comp on console!

02/18/2018 06:18 PMPosted by Pokadotdurr
Here are some questions:

1. What is your SR and what is their SR?

2. How often do you play and how often do they play?


I have been playing on my new account ( forced to it because of Sony PS4) since season 6. My friend started this season and he just did his placements.

This season I did barely more matches: 15, he had 10.
We had a difference of 5 SR when we started. We won 4 games and lost one. He got in the very least 30SR per win and went up to 48. Same amount for his losses. I averaged between 22 and 28 per win and loss.

But yeah, I guess it must be because he's newer to the game so the game tries to get him faster towards his SR/MMR
it was broken in season 1 when they got called out. they said ok we fix it, then season 2 they got called out again and said oh it didn't go, we got it now. season three same thing oh we really fixed it now, then later on when orisa came out i think there was issues. and guess what its still crappy compared to playing one good dps if you want sr.
02/18/2018 11:42 PMPosted by Nerva666
it was broken in season 1 when they got called out. they said ok we fix it, then season 2 they got called out again and said oh it didn't go, we got it now. season three same thing oh we really fixed it now, then later on when orisa came out i think there was issues. and guess what its still crappy compared to playing one good dps if you want sr.


I mean, I've always played support and tank in comp (yes I include sombra as a support and even soldier to some degree as I would often end up with gold to silvr heal, even when we did have healers in the team) and I nevere really noticed anything as I always used to play solo But seeing how in 5 matches with a friend I saw him pass over my own SR as we started basically on the same spot (he was at 2094, I was at 2099) and seeing him constantly gain between 38-48 SR While I would gain between 20-25. Again, we lost one match where I lost 24, but he lost 48... like how does the game actually decide? I have been looking around but I can't find real reliable info on what the exact reason is.

The only thing I can come up with, and this is literally the only difference I could notice between my friend and I: I flexed a lot more. Depending on the map and the part of it we were playing I switched. An Example: I played Moira on Oasis Garden(?): the one with with the balcony/bridge on top of the point. It was a pretty tight match but we got the win. the second round was on the one with the jump pad. For that one I preferred to go with Zenyatta, even though I was doing well with Moira. And I would do this almost every map we played, while my friend would usually stay on his hero he picked at the start, mostly Soldier and D.Va. He would only switch if he felt like he was doing terrible (die three times in a row for example without picking anyone and struggling to even get Ult charge)

So, We all know that even if flexing is promoted and encouraged, the system does not follow that logic as it will compare you to other players who usually keep one tricking to get the best possible results and SR stats. But for it to be THIS major? Is this really it?

Again, I am just very disappointed that back in november, during Blizzcon, Jeff promised they would look into comp and be serious about it and that they would make it a priority to give us more transparency so that we could understand why we gain and lose the amount of SR we do (even if at some points it's unjustifiable. I've seen guys pull off incredible matches and gain 5 SR or even lose SR for a victory). Still nothing and we're now 4 months in. Maybe the next hero will change the meta because he will fix the SR system?

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