(Hopefully) valid arguments as to why Moira is good

General Discussion
Do not quote the entire OP

I previously posted in another thread where the OP talked about people who unironically thinks that Moira is OP and said that the supporting arguments were dumb. I agree that a lot of arguments when it comes to nerf threads are pretty dumb, but there are also good ones that people just avoid or downvote without giving a counter argument.

The one I posted got 17 dislikes and 3 responses, one of which was "Moira is balanced and doesn't need nerfs" which really didn't touch on any of the points that I made.

I'll start with some background on myself. This is my first FPS and really the first PC game that I really played, using a keyboard and mouse "the right way" was something that was completely new to me so I basically started as a Lucio one-trick. Even though the hero I actually wanted to be good at was Tracer because of her unique skill set, I always liked fast paced gameplay and Tracer ticked all the right boxes.

I realized that playing just 1 hero wasn't good enough because there wasn't anything I could do if someone else picked Lucio, so I expanded to other support heroes. I expanded to Zenyatta and later to Ana when she came out. Ana actually becoming my favourite support hero.

Later I realized that just playing support was also a problem because I'd end up in teams that had more than 2 support players and I also found that a lot of people playing tanks weren't very good at it. So expanded into the tank category, I picked Reinhardt and he became my main for a while, I expanded my tank pool to Winston and now I also play Orisa. I focus on main tanks, but I also try to expand into the off tanks.

Lastly, I finally got to playing Tracer who's currently my most played overall with nearly 200 hours clocked in on her, and I'm still trying to get better at her because I'm not satisfied with where I am with her. I'm working getting better at aiming still so I can expand to skill shot/aim intensive heroes.

I'm going from being a player who went from being mainly based on positioning, game sense, awareness etc. and have been trying to become better and better at aiming.

The point I'm trying to make is that when I look at a hero in terms of balance, I don't look at the pros and cons from the limited PoV of a DPS main, a support main or a tank main. I look at them as the PoV of someone who plays all categories and understands how buffs/nerfs have indirect effects on other heroes and their viability.


She's only too good because of the following reasons that are all tied to 1 main reason which is this: She's too easy to play.

1) Her primary healing does 80 per second and can basically heal 5 team mates as long as they are in a cone infront of her. Her healing outshines any other main healer, Mercy is a bit easier to play however she can only heal/boost 1 person at a time. Ana heals 75 per second and she can only heal 1 person at a time and requires a lot of mechanical skill.

2) Because of how easily she gets value from healing and doing damage, especially being able to heal multipile people at the same time her ult charges ridiculously fast.

3) Her ressource is incredibly easy to manage. A lot of people use her resource as a defense for her healing output and etc. however this really isn't a big deal at all considering how easy it is for her to do damage and if people focus more on using the healing orb instead of the damage orb, they should very rarely run out of healing.

4) Her damage is very underrated, it's not OP, but it's very good. People only look at the 50 DPS and think it's bad or low, but they forget that it has a range of 21m, heals herself for 30 HP per second and requires the least amount of mechanical skill for hereos that are aim reliant - even saying that Moira's biotic grasp is aim reliant is a bit of a joke. Her damage is basically free

Previously, Mercy was the top pick because she was so easy to play and get value from and the value she brought to the table was simply just uncontested, the only time you wouldn't want Mercy was in a quad tank comp. Moira is now in a similar state where she just outshines every other main healer due to the value she brings and how easy it is to get it.

Her healing and ult charge needs to be tuned down.


As a follow up to what I think needs to happen with Moira is that her skill floor needs to be increased. The DEVs were on the right path when they made her healing based on a resource however, that resource is way too easy to manage and isn't really a big factor. What they could do is lower her base resource and make it so balancing that and finding the damage in between healing to continue being able to heal becomes more important.
The difference maker between Moira players should be how well they manage their resources and people who are bad at this and waste orbs on damage should be punished by ending up with no resources left to keep their team alive but currently, it's very easy to still just waste resources and come out on top.

A second thing that needs to happen is decrease the rate at which she builds ult charge, she builds this absurdly fast and while it's not one of the biggest impact ults, it's still an ult and it's good. The other reason why this also needs a nerf is because this actually negates the whole resource management of her, she can empty out all of her healing, and throw out damage orbs and when she has neither, just ult and have it again for the next fight.

This is just personal preference but as someone who likes to have my aim challenged so I can improve on it, I'd like to have her right click require more aim but not necessary for her balance.

I expect a lot of downvotes for this thread as there is a very clear mob mentality on this forum, but I'd appreciate if no one downvotes without following up with a counter argument. I'll try to respond to each counter argument unless it's something that I have already responded to.
This is a well written post, yet the majority of points made are false.
02/16/2018 12:38 AMPosted by Avian
As a follow up to what I think needs to happen with Moira is that her skill floor needs to be lowered.
For what and why?
02/16/2018 12:54 AMPosted by FeelsGoodMan
This is a well written post, yet the majority of points made are false.

Care to elaborate?

02/16/2018 12:59 AMPosted by Fullmetal
02/16/2018 12:38 AMPosted by Avian
As a follow up to what I think needs to happen with Moira is that her skill floor needs to be lowered.
For what and why?

For other main healers to stay relevant and an alternative pick. Moira is currently in the same position as pre nerf Mercy was while not being as good but still the top pick for similar reasons that makes other main healers as close to obsolete as they can get.

Already seeing downvotes with no actual counter arguments so far.
02/16/2018 12:59 AMPosted by Avian
For other main healers to stay relevant and an alternative pick. Moira is currently in the same position as pre nerf Mercy was while not being as good but still the top pick for similar reasons that makes other main healers as close to obsolete as they can get.

Sorry, i'm not good in understanding, but you want to make Moira more easy to play (skill floor lowered), how it can possible affects om other supports.
1) Her primary healing is very short range, meaning she cannot reliably apply it to flankers, to Pharah/snipers, or to anyone playing on high ground if she's not already up there. If her team is spread out, focused healing becomes difficult compared to Mercy, Zenyatta. or Ana. Her short range and draining resource pool means she has to be thoughtful with her healing, and can't spam it.

2) I'm fairly neutral on the speed of Moira's ult charge--if it got a little more expensive I guess I wouldn't mind--but her ultimate is weaker than Zen's or Lucio's in terms of impact in the teamfight, although it's better than Valkyrie. It accomplishes such a different thing than nanoboost that it's a little hard to compare them. Her ult is interruptable, and her mobility is completely disabled while she's using it.

3) Her resource is not too difficult to manage for general healing, but it becomes a big problem if her team is getting bombarded by a lot of high DPS at once, *particularly* if the enemy is playing behind shields and/or out of her range. In nasty slug-out teamfights she can be worn down and run out of juice.

4) Her damage is not garbage, but it is nowhere near insurmountable. It can be survived by a lot of the cast and outdamaged by literally everyone, especially when her orb is on cooldown. Her aim is forgiving, but it is still required, and a Moira who can't aim will get gunned down by a DPS who can. It's true Moira can get all kinds of trash damage for free, especially with her orb, but she has a hard cap on how much focused damage she can do, especially considering her limited range and her weakness against armor and shields. She can mop up squishies if they've already been softened up for her, but she is unlikely to get a lot of non-assist kills unless people are trying to 1v1 her on her turf in her ideal circumstances.
Eh, when Moira is using her ult is very exposed, she can't use her fade to get away anymore, and she can't use her healing orb for tasty burst-heals.
02/16/2018 01:07 AMPosted by Fullmetal
02/16/2018 12:59 AMPosted by Avian
For other main healers to stay relevant and an alternative pick. Moira is currently in the same position as pre nerf Mercy was while not being as good but still the top pick for similar reasons that makes other main healers as close to obsolete as they can get.

Sorry, i'm not good in understanding, but you want to make Moira more easy to play (skill floor lowered), how it can possible affects om other supports.

My bad, It's meant to say high skill floor, I keep mixing up the two.
02/16/2018 01:10 AMPosted by Avian
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Sorry, i'm not good in understanding, but you want to make Moira more easy to play (skill floor lowered), how it can possible affects om other supports.

My bad, It's meant to say high skill floor, I keep mixing up the two.

But it's still not affects to other. All supports are bound by their kits, where you just cannot grow up really well. You can have a good aim as Ana and still easily countred by full hp allies and shields, because you can't change you postioning fast. As lucio when your wallride you can't buff other because of close range of aura.
In other words - what's the point to git gud if your impact only increasing by 5%. I can spend all time on Tracer and be always be good support, because there no difference between best and good support player. Better skill - better reward.
02/16/2018 01:08 AMPosted by Kootiepatra
1) Her primary healing is very short range, meaning she cannot reliably apply it to flankers, to Pharah/snipers, or to anyone playing on high ground if she's not already up there. If her team is spread out, focused healing becomes difficult compared to Mercy, Zenyatta. or Ana. Her short range and draining resource pool means she has to be thoughtful with her healing, and can't spam it.

2) I'm fairly neutral on the speed of Moira's ult charge--if it got a little more expensive I guess I wouldn't mind--but her ultimate is weaker than Zen's or Lucio's in terms of impact in the teamfight, although it's better than Valkyrie. It accomplishes such a different thing than nanoboost that it's a little hard to compare them. Her ult is interruptable, and her mobility is completely disabled while she's using it.

3) Her resource is not too difficult to manage for general healing, but it becomes a big problem if her team is getting bombarded by a lot of high DPS at once, *particularly* if the enemy is playing behind shields and/or out of her range. In nasty slug-out teamfights she can be worn down and run out of juice.

4) Her damage is not garbage, but it is nowhere near insurmountable. It can be survived by a lot of the cast and outdamaged by literally everyone, especially when her orb is on cooldown. Her aim is forgiving, but it is still required, and a Moira who can't aim will get gunned down by a DPS who can. It's true Moira can get all kinds of trash damage for free, especially with her orb, but she has a hard cap on how much focused damage she can do, especially considering her limited range and her weakness against armor and shields. She can mop up squishies if they've already been softened up for her, but she is unlikely to get a lot of non-assist kills unless people are trying to 1v1 her on her turf in her ideal circumstances.

1) False, her healing range for her primary is 15m which is the same as Mercy. Additionally she has an orb that heals for 300 damage that can be thrown in the direction it needs to go and will travel fast until it starts healing something. It's true that healing Dive is harder as you won't be optimizing her resource as you would in a deathball, but given her mobility ability and all around usefullness she's still better than the alternative main healers. Mercy could be used but she has to follow people around and her escape is based on the positioning of her team mates.

2) Being able to farm an ultimate for every fight is very powerful and like I said, while it's not as strong as Zen's or Lucio's ult in terms of burst impact, it basically negates her weakness which is running out of healing, it also heals and damages at the same time.

3) While it's true that if there's just a ridiculous amount of damaging coming in, her resource will be drained but at the same time, there's no other healer (without ult) that does the job better than Moira when it comes to raw healing. 80 healing per second on everything infront of her in that cone + a healing orb that does 300 healing until it disappears is insane. Ultimately this argument doesn't really matter because without a supportive ult from Zenyatta or Lucio that fight would most likely be lost eitherway.

4) It's only really at the highest ranks that dueling a Moira at her maximum range which is 21m isn't a big problem and even so that's still very demanding of the DPS fighting her. I'd consider aiming with Moira a bare minimum, even at her max range, you should more or less be as close to pin point accurate as can be because of how forgiving it is. It's true that you are going to have to wait the entire 4 seconds (without orb) to kill them, but at the same time you are sustaining yourself and the other person is very likely to miss. Futhermore, there isn't really a reason to start going DPS Moira like that?

02/16/2018 01:09 AMPosted by Nessykins
Eh, when Moira is using her ult is very exposed, she can't use her fade to get away anymore, and she can't use her healing orb for tasty burst-heals.

Throw the orb before you ult? She also moves very fast + the maximum range of her ult is 30m. If you die it's 100% your fault.
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My bad, It's meant to say high skill floor, I keep mixing up the two.

But it's still not affects to other. All supports are bound by their kits, where you just cannot grow up really well. You can have a good aim as Ana and still easily countred by full hp allies and shields, because you can't change you postioning fast. As lucio when your wallride you can't buff other because of close range of aura.
In other words - what's the point to git gud if your impact only increasing by 5%. I can spend all time on Tracer and be always be good support, because there no difference between best and good support player. Better skill - better reward.

When you raise the skill floor of a hero, you generally make the barrier to entry for value harder to reach, that alone will have an impact on other heroes in the same category. Harder to play = harder to get value, if Moira needs to pay more attention to her healing resource and has to spend more time building it up and people who are incapable of doing this will be "punished" for itthen that means that other heroes that are harder to play can compete with her in terms of value.
You forgot to mention that Moira cannot heal from a range so she is only good with tanks almost useless with many dps heroes

I hardly get healed by Moira when I play mccree or pharah
I play Moira quite a lot when I want to play support and she is easier than ana or Zen or even Lucio by a long shot.
Maybe it's because I play this game since launch and I have good game sense but God damn managing healing and damage to do more healing is easy. Especially when your team doesn't feed or take unhealable damage ( bastion + discord on Winston ).

Even if you stop healing with your primary, it will still heal for 6 seconds if I remember correctly. Good Moira players barely get to the 3/4 of the bar ever because they just spray their team like they spray salt on their toxic teammates.

And frankly, if you have good positioning the range of Moira doesn't matter. I've seen pharas get healed by Moira orb, I myself as tracer too and even when im low I dash back to my team and get sprayed for a second before getting back into it. Usually you even run zen to cover Moira long range healing flaws. So yeah .
I'm even curious is discord or damage boost increase her regeneration since she does more DMG. kind of like reaper maybe ?
02/16/2018 01:38 AMPosted by SilentStorm
You forgot to mention that Moira cannot heal from a range so she is only good with tanks almost useless with many dps heroes

I hardly get healed by Moira when I play mccree or pharah

That's why you have a 2nd healer like Zen or Lucio. Like said before, Moira's maximum healing range on primary healing is 15m, same as Mercy and she also has the orb to heal people at range if necessary.
02/16/2018 01:41 AMPosted by Avian
02/16/2018 01:38 AMPosted by SilentStorm
You forgot to mention that Moira cannot heal from a range so she is only good with tanks almost useless with many dps heroes

I hardly get healed by Moira when I play mccree or pharah

That's why you have a 2nd healer like Zen or Lucio. Like said before, Moira's maximum healing range on primary healing is 15m, same as Mercy and she also has the orb to heal people at range if necessary.


Then it's a weakness

What happens when zen dies? I die, 2nd dps dies and we lose the fight

Moira cannot do damage and heal at the same time she needs to choose

So she suffers from not constantly healing
When you raise the skill floor of a hero, you generally make the barrier to entry for value harder to reach, that alone will have an impact on other heroes in the same category. Harder to play = harder to get value, if Moira needs to pay more attention to her healing resource and has to spend more time building it up then that means that other heroes that are harder to play can compete with her in terms of value.
Yep that's why not so much genji and tracer players. The problem with mercy meta because other supports have some unique exertions, they nerfed her, and other supports become better? Having an "easy" hero it's good, while we can have a git gud hero which can gives same impact.
EDIT: But again, you right too, if moira will be more skilled hero with same value it will be fair.
02/16/2018 01:45 AMPosted by SilentStorm
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That's why you have a 2nd healer like Zen or Lucio. Like said before, Moira's maximum healing range on primary healing is 15m, same as Mercy and she also has the orb to heal people at range if necessary.


Then it's a weakness

What happens when zen dies? I die, 2nd dps dies and we lose the fight

Moira cannot do damage and heal at the same time she needs to choose

So she suffers from not constantly healing

A weakness that's not exclusive to her?

Mercy has to choose between healing, damage boosting, contributing with damage herself and Rezing.

Ana has to choose between healing or damaging, btw her healing or damage can be blocked from reaching its intended target by friendlies, enemies and barriers, the latter is something that people don't want fixed about Moira btw.

The only two that can do healing and damage at the same time are the off healers Zen and Lucio.

02/16/2018 01:47 AMPosted by Fullmetal
When you raise the skill floor of a hero, you generally make the barrier to entry for value harder to reach, that alone will have an impact on other heroes in the same category. Harder to play = harder to get value, if Moira needs to pay more attention to her healing resource and has to spend more time building it up then that means that other heroes that are harder to play can compete with her in terms of value.
Yep that's why not so much genji and tracer players. The problem with mercy meta because other supports have some unique exertions, they nerfed her, and other supports become better? Having an "easy" hero it's good, while we can have a git gud hero which can gives same impact.

The nerf I suggested doesn't make her harder to play in terms of mechanics, it's simply focusing more on resource management which should have been her thing in the first place. Healing doesn't become harder and neither does doing damage, but being able to heal is what's going to be harder and something that would set apart people who are good at Moira from people who aren't.
02/16/2018 01:45 AMPosted by SilentStorm
02/16/2018 01:41 AMPosted by Avian
...
That's why you have a 2nd healer like Zen or Lucio. Like said before, Moira's maximum healing range on primary healing is 15m, same as Mercy and she also has the orb to heal people at range if necessary.


Then it's a weakness

What happens when zen dies? I die, 2nd dps dies and we lose the fight

Moira cannot do damage and heal at the same time she needs to choose

So she suffers from not constantly healing


When you are good at Moira, you have constant healing because you manage your healing bar and the cd on your orb. Especially leaving the passive healing heal your teammates instead of pressing M1 like mercy for years. It's relatively easy to get used to and since you can do it on your entire team rather than only one target :c
1) False, her healing range for her primary is 15m which is the same as Mercy. Additionally she has an orb that heals for 300 damage that can be thrown in the direction it needs to go and will travel fast until it starts healing something. It's true that healing Dive is harder as you won't be optimizing her resource as you would in a deathball, but given her mobility ability and all around usefullness she's still better than the alternative main healers. Mercy could be used but she has to follow people around and her escape is based on the positioning of her team mates.


Mercy's healing is also short range. The reason she doesn't suffer for it is because she can fly to the people she needs to heal. Ana can heal across the map. Zen can heal at 40 meters. Moira's healing orb is not very fast, and your teammates could be dead or moved out of the way by the time it gets to them. She doesn't become useless in a more spread-out playstyle, but she is not a healing juggernaut unless your team is more or less in a deathball.

2) Being able to farm an ultimate for every fight is very powerful and like I said, while it's not as strong as Zen's or Lucio's ult in terms of burst impact, it basically negates her weakness which is running out of healing, it also heals and damages at the same time.
The damage on Moira's ult is 70DPS, which can be outhealed or at least largely kept up with by enemy supports. The healing is very good, but it can still be burst through with things like Widow headshots, High Noon, Self-destruct, etc. It's also channeled in a beam, so again, if Moira's team is spread out, she can't catch them all at once. Please note that I also conceded that her ult could become more expensive without wreaking havoc on the character.

3) While it's true that if there's just a ridiculous amount of damaging coming in, her resource will be drained but at the same time, there's not other healer (without ult) that does the job better than Moira when it comes to raw healing. 80 healing per second on everything infront of her in that cone + a healing orb that does 300 healing until it disappears is insane. Ultimately this argument doesn't really matter because without a supportive ult from Zenyatta or Lucio that fight would most likely be lost eitherway.
The orb only puts out the full 300 healing if it is launched straight into the grouped-up team, or bounced around in a tight corridor, and the the orb only does 75HPS (which can be outdamaged). Most Moira orbs, healing and damage alike, will not spend their full potential on their intended targets.

4) It's only really at the highest ranks that dueling a Moira at her maximum range which is 21m isn't a big problem and even so that's still very demanding of the DPS fighting her.
At 21m, Moira will be required to track pretty darn well (her beam is a constant width, so farther away = smaller target), and beyond that she is fully vulnerable to any decent mid or long-ranged hero, e.g. Soldier, McCree, Pharah, any sniper, Bastion, Orisa, Junkrat with a good arc. Stay 22m away or use cover, and she's going to have a bad time.

I'd consider aiming with Moira a bare minimum, even at her max range, you should more or less be as close to pin point accurate as can be because of how forgiving it is.
A beam can either be forgiving or pin point accurate. I'm not sure how you think it should be able to be both.

Many long-ranged abilities in this game aren't required to be pin point accurate at that range (Pharah, Soldier [esp Helix], Bastion and Orisa with spread, even Mercy and pilot D.Va with generous projectiles). Really it's only Widowmaker and McCree that have to be exactly on the money at that distance, and it's because they can really mess you up with a single shot. Again: Moira has the lowest DPS in the game.

It's true that you are going to have to wait the entire 4 seconds (without orb) to kill them, but at the same time you are sustaining yourself and the other person is very likely to miss. Futhermore, there isn't really a reason to start going DPS Moira like that?
No, there isn't a reason to go DPS Moira. Even leaving aside the fact that it means you aren't healing your team, there are a host of things that can go wrong for you very quickly. And if "My opponent had aim" is one of the things that can go wrong, it means that flanker Moira is a risky and foolish play. As Moira, you aren't going to be able to keep people at exactly 21m away, especially once you burn Fade. You aren't likely to catch people 100% on their own where their team won't round on you. And frankly, if you can just drift around the battlefield and pick off squishies all game with no consequence, then the enemy team is playing very, very poorly indeed.

02/16/2018 01:22 AMPosted by Avian
She also moves very fast + the maximum range of her ult is 30m. If you die it's 100% your fault.
Not when you can get slept, hooked, flashbanged, concussed, headshot by a Widowmaker, scattered by Hanzo, counter-ulted with High Noon, Tac Visor, or Rip Tire. Her ult, on its own, is less scary for the enemy than most DPS ults, and less able to save her team than a couple of the other support ults.

Her ult is not garbage, but it is not a press Q to win button. Her damage isn't garbage, but it is not a hold RMB to win button. Fade is a super good ability, but it is the only true freebie Moira has, and she is not the only hero to have something like it.

Moira ought to be respected for the healing and damage she can do, but she is far from the scariest thing on the battlefield at any given time.
Response to Kootiepatra

Mercy's healing is also short range. The reason she doesn't suffer for it is because she can fly to the people she needs to heal. Ana can heal across the map. Zen can heal at 40 meters. Moira's healing orb is not very fast, and your teammates could be dead or moved out of the way by the time it gets to them. She doesn't become useless in a more spread-out playstyle, but she is not a healing juggernaut unless your team is more or less in a deathball.

Mercy can fly to her team mate, but does she actually want to if it's a Winston that dives the enemy team?
Ana can heal from range but all of her utility because less reliable at range, furthermore her damage and healing can be bodyblocked from reaching its intended target as well as barriers blocking it.
Zen can heal at range but he's also an off healer and does 40 HP per second.

Moira isn't ideal for Dive but she's still likely to be the best main healer in that team comp even in pro play. When running Dive, they will likely either go Zen & Lucio or Moira with one of the off healers.

The damage on Moira's ult is 70DPS, which can be outhealed or at least largely kept up with by enemy supports. The healing is very good, but it can still be burst through with things like Widow headshots, High Noon, Self-destruct, etc. It's also channeled in a beam, so again, if Moira's team is spread out, she can't catch them all at once. Please note that I also conceded that her ult could become more expensive without wreaking havoc on the character.

Yes, it's not perfect but the only support ult that can protect people from the things you just mentioned is a perfectly timed Sound Barrier. Doesn't matter that Zen does 300 healing per second during his ult if Widow is hitting people in the dome or McCree somehow manages to pull off a Deadeye, or D.va tosses her mech at you. It's still an ult that you can farm up for every fight, Junkrat is the only other ult that consistently is as fast and possibly Tracer at OWL level.

The orb only puts out the full 300 healing if it is launched straight into the grouped-up team, or bounced around in a tight corridor, and the the orb only does 75HPS (which can be outdamaged). Most Moira orbs, healing and damage alike, will not spend their full potential on their intended targets.

It might not heal for its full pontential but it's still 75 per sec, even if it only stay on a team mate for 1 second that 75 HP can make the difference of whether they die or kill the enemy they are fighting. Getting a decent angle for it to bounce back really isn't that hard either and it's max range for tethering is 5m. The person getting healed can simply play around it.

No, there isn't a reason to go DPS Moira. Even leaving aside the fact that it means you aren't healing your team, there are a host of things that can go wrong for you very quickly. And if "My opponent had aim" is one of the things that can go wrong, it means that flanker Moira is a risky and foolish play. As Moira, you aren't going to be able to keep people at exactly 21m away, especially once you burn Fade. You aren't likely to catch people 100% on their own where their team won't round on you. And frankly, if you can just drift around the battlefield and pick off squishies all game with no consequence, then the enemy team is playing very, very poorly indeed.

The problem is that it is possible to be a DPS Moira and either get away with it or lose with multipile gold medals and the thing about that is that people who play her don't understand where they went wrong because they were rewarded with golds.
It is actually very likely to keep people away close to what's her Max range, using mobility for something like 76 and McCree would be a waste as they can't shoot you while doing that and it's basically free damage for Moira. Genji and Tracer have to burn some of their utility to get close as well, if they do get right up on you they can and will kill you if you don't have Fade but that's the same for any support really.

Not when you can get slept, hooked, flashbanged, concussed, headshot by a Widowmaker, scattered by Hanzo, counter-ulted with High Noon, Tac Visor, or Rip Tire. Her ult, on its own, is less scary for the enemy than most DPS ults, and less able to save her team than a couple of the other support ults.

Her ult is not garbage, but it is not a press Q to win button. Her damage isn't garbage, but it is not a hold RMB to win button. Fade is a super good ability, but it is the only true freebie Moira has, and she is not the only hero to have something like it.

Moira ought to be respected for the healing and damage she can do, but she is far from the scariest thing on the battlefield at any given time.

The only heroes that survive any of those things you just mentioned is Zen and Lucio (again with a well timed sound barrier). Which again are the off healers that you would pair with a main healer. None of the other main healers are going to survive any of the things you mentioned and frankly Moira is capable of staying outside of the range of some of them unless they go on a very long flank trip.

Fade isn't the only ability like it but she's the only support to have one while also having an ability that can heal her back up to full while also having being able to heal through doing damage.

Moira has no reason to die really, she should always be the last person to die on her team.

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