Is anyone else concerned about Moira's pickrate/Winrate ?

General Discussion
02/20/2018 12:19 AMPosted by EMc73

1) I don't know why you would personally, but people do. She is currently the third most picked hero in the game, so she is clearly a viable hero that competes with Moira's spot.

2) Ana is a harder hero to assess, but she currently has a higher pickrate than Lucio, and Lucio is balanced. She is again clearly a main healer that is frequently ran.

3) Lucio is considered a main healer when considering metas. That's why Lucio+Zen is viable. He also heals more than Ana, and only 10% less than Moira. If powercreep is getting to Lucio, other heroes need nerfs. Lucio is the balance benchmark of the healers


1) No one is saying Mercy is useless or unviable, its just rather a lot of people would rather play Moira then Mercy after the nerfs. Her healing is fine, no doubt about it, but the way her rez works now and her ult as well is just unrewarding. Rez is handed to you on a plater every 30s and you become a skybox that unless a S76 or Mccree ults, you just click left or right buttons on your mouse while watching your team. Not as engaging as before and plainly boring to play.

Again, thats why people would rather play other heroes than Mercy as a support. I rarely play Ana, but ever since the change, I dropped Mercy entirely unless we have a Pharah, and play other more rewarding heroes.

2) No one is arguing she aint a main healer but clearly she has more weaknesses than Moira. She cant heal through barriers (Moira can, her primary fire is a bug and is getting fixed, but he orb still does), has more mobility, has stronger healing.

3) Maybe Lucio heals more than Ana is because the way he works? He just needs to be within AoE of his allies to heal, if they're grouped up, he heals more. Ana however is different, she can only solo heal with the occasional grenade.

His healing output to one person cant compete with the main healers as it is moderate, but when it comes to AoE, thats where he excels. His healing is fine, if at best if gets any touches at all it might just be his ult casting.

Lucio is not the benchmark for balance, that goes to Zenyatta.

Every healing in the support is fine, its just other factors that contribute why that people pick Moira over others.
Winrates and pickrates work very differently in a role where there is only three main healers and two of them are not doing well. Especially when you consider that there are way more viable tank and dps options.
02/20/2018 12:22 AMPosted by EMc73
02/20/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Hera
Mercy has nosedived down to 2.4% in GM and is still quite low across all ranks


Being the third most picked hero overall is quite low to you?

Lol, what do you want for your one trick? To be top or else something is wrong?


A hero, mind you one of 3 main healers in the entire game is at 2.4% pickrate...at my rank if you don’t have a Moira it’s just an uphill battle. Plus these were all the wrong balance changes, change the res to a static 30 second cool down but leave instant res in Valkyrie, the movement buffs and the 20 second time. I thought the only real problem was mercy’s ability to make consecutive resurrects...so they nerfed her res and basically all her other abilities but like guardian angel and her healing beam? Everything that made her impactful is basically gone, using an ability gets you killed when it’s not even an ultimate (I wonder why they make her vulnerable like Pharah and Mcree, it should be her ultimate!!) and just breaks the game when it’s a useful ability...I encourage you to play Mercy and see how little impact she has, basically it’s just press mouse one and try not to die and that’s about it.
02/20/2018 12:32 AMPosted by Crestren
1) No one is saying Mercy is useless or unviable, its just rather a lot of people would rather play Moira then Mercy after the nerfs. Her healing is fine, no doubt about it, but the way her rez works now and her ult as well is just unrewarding. Rez is handed to you on a plater every 30s and you become a skybox that unless a S76 or Mccree ults, you just click left or right buttons on your mouse while watching your team. Not as engaging as before and plainly boring to play.

Again, thats why people would rather play other heroes than Mercy as a support. I rarely play Ana, but ever since the change, I dropped Mercy entirely unless we have a Pharah, and play other more rewarding heroes.

2) No one is arguing she aint a main healer but clearly she has more weaknesses than Moira. She cant heal through barriers (Moira can, her primary fire is a bug and is getting fixed, but he orb still does), has more mobility, has stronger healing.

3) Maybe Lucio heals more than Ana is because the way he works? He just needs to be within AoE of his allies to heal, if they're grouped up, he heals more. Ana however is different, she can only solo heal with the occasional grenade.

His healing output to one person cant compete with the main healers as it is moderate, but when it comes to AoE, thats where he excels. His healing is fine, if at best if gets any touches at all it might just be his ult casting.

Lucio is not the benchmark for balance, that goes to Zenyatta.

Every healing in the support is fine, its just other factors that contribute why that people pick Moira over others.


1) A lot of people would. I'm not disputing that. However, a lot of people still play Mercy. Mercy is definitely still a competitor, her pickrate is still huge.

2) Absolutely she has more weaknesses. I think Ana is honestly a pretty niche hero. She still competes for the same spot though, and her pickrate is still large.

3) Being a strong single target healer and being a main healer are different things. There have been many many times in the past where Lucio has had to fill the role as the main healer in the meta. Indeed, the Lucio-Zen meta is the meta Moira is largely replacing. Jeff has even said in the past that Zen is the only healer that isn't designed to work as a solo healer. Basically, Zen is the only non-main healer.

I would say that Zen is perhaps more balanced, but he's not a good benchmark due to the whole off-healer situation. Lucio is benchmark due to how unlikely he is to ever be nerfed or buffed, and due to how well he works in every meta.
Sometimes I wonder why people are 'concerned' over pickrates while still locking heroes they have nothing to do with the 'concerns' they are talking about. Like, why do you even care?

Is there anyone telling you 'pick moira or you throw?'
02/19/2018 11:35 PMPosted by Starlight
She's a healer who can do tons of healing with great mobility in a mobilty meta.


All the major short-ranged healers have tons of mobility. Moira is arguably the worse at it.
02/20/2018 01:05 AMPosted by Hera
A hero, mind you one of 3 main healers in the entire game is at 2.4% pickrate...at my rank if you don’t have a Moira it’s just an uphill battle. Plus these were all the wrong balance changes, change the res to a static 30 second cool down but leave instant res in Valkyrie, the movement buffs and the 20 second time. I thought the only real problem was mercy’s ability to make consecutive resurrects...so they nerfed her res and basically all her other abilities but like guardian angel and her healing beam? Everything that made her impactful is basically gone, using an ability gets you killed when it’s not even an ultimate (I wonder why they make her vulnerable like Pharah and Mcree, it should be her ultimate!!) and just breaks the game when it’s a useful ability...I encourage you to play Mercy and see how little impact she has, basically it’s just press mouse one and try not to die and that’s about it.


I've played plenty of Mercy. Indeed I have 50+ hours of GM/t500 playtime on her, in addition to 50+ hours of quickplay time.

I don't think that Mercy being slightly below average in a skill bracket you don't play in is a particularly big issue. Particularly when Moira fills a similar role, but with a much higher skillcap.

In your rank, Mercy's pickrate and winrate are still above Lucio's, and Lucio is a highly balanced main healer so.... yeah. She's doing just fine where you're playing.
02/20/2018 01:31 AMPosted by EMc73
02/20/2018 01:05 AMPosted by Hera
A hero, mind you one of 3 main healers in the entire game is at 2.4% pickrate...at my rank if you don’t have a Moira it’s just an uphill battle. Plus these were all the wrong balance changes, change the res to a static 30 second cool down but leave instant res in Valkyrie, the movement buffs and the 20 second time. I thought the only real problem was mercy’s ability to make consecutive resurrects...so they nerfed her res and basically all her other abilities but like guardian angel and her healing beam? Everything that made her impactful is basically gone, using an ability gets you killed when it’s not even an ultimate (I wonder why they make her vulnerable like Pharah and Mcree, it should be her ultimate!!) and just breaks the game when it’s a useful ability...I encourage you to play Mercy and see how little impact she has, basically it’s just press mouse one and try not to die and that’s about it.


I've played plenty of Mercy. Indeed I have 50+ hours of GM/t500 playtime on her, in addition to 50+ hours of quickplay time.

I don't think that Mercy being slightly below average in a skill bracket you don't play in is a particularly big issue. Particularly when Moira fills a similar role, but with a much higher skillcap.

In your rank, Mercy's pickrate and winrate are still above Lucio's, and Lucio is a highly balanced main healer so.... yeah. She's doing just fine where you're playing.


I don’t understand your obsession with believing that everything in the support category is completely okay, one healer is basically ruling the whole thing while Zen is out by himself. I also don’t understand how you can think Lucio can be a main healer, sure he can do a lot of healing, but when it really matters, when you’re being attacked by someone, can Lucio really help? It’s even delusional to think that you could run Lucio and Zen and it be enough healing. Right now it’s difficult to even run Mercy & Zen with Mercy’s very low utility besides her healing beam at the moment. I don’t know what game you’re playing but it’s not the same as mine.

And also, why are you so obsessed with my rank and stats? I didn’t once check yours because I’m just making an argument based on what you’ve said on the forums and not attacking you because of what characters you play or what rank you are. You really need to chill...

Edit: and to say that Mercy has a lower skill cap than Moira is pretty laughable. They are really at the same, especially now when Moira can do everything Mercy can with much little effort and then more aswell as with her auto-lock dps capabilities and death balls.
02/20/2018 12:22 AMPosted by EMc73
02/20/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Hera
Mercy has nosedived down to 2.4% in GM and is still quite low across all ranks


Being the third most picked hero overall is quite low to you?

Lol, what do you want for your one trick? To be top or else something is wrong?


In GM (which is what matters) Mercy's pick rate is 3.06%, in the bottom half.
02/20/2018 01:48 AMPosted by Hera
I don’t understand your obsession with believing that everything in the support category is completely okay, one healer is basically ruling the whole thing while Zen is out by himself. I also don’t understand how you can think Lucio can be a main healer, sure he can do a lot of healing, but when it really matters, when you’re being attacked by someone, can Lucio really help? It’s even delusional to think that you could run Lucio and Zen and it be enough healing. Right now it’s difficult to even run Mercy & Zen with Mercy’s very low utility besides her healing beam at the moment. I don’t know what game you’re playing but it’s not the same as mine.

And also, why are you so obsessed with my rank and stats? I didn’t once check yours because I’m just making an argument based on what you’ve said on the forums and not attacking you because of what characters you play or what rank you are. You really need to chill...


Lucio and Zen has literally been the meta for like, the majority of competitive seasons. It was only really season 1 (where it was double Lucio), season 3 and a bit of 4 (where it was Ana's triple tank) and last season (where it was Mercy), where people weren't running Lucio and Zen frequently.

They work very well together, and the healing is enough. Try playing them next time there isn't a "must-pick" healer.

And, because it's relevant. It's hard to justify buffing a statistically FAR above average hero, and I don't think it's right to say "look at the one rank where she is a bit below average" if you don't even play there.
02/20/2018 01:55 AMPosted by GrumpyDaddy
In GM (which is what matters) Mercy's pick rate is 3.06%, in the bottom half.


Why is GM what matters? She's a low skillcap healer. There's no rule that demands her to be above average in the hands of the best players.

Not to mention half of all heroes will always be in the bottom half.
02/20/2018 01:57 AMPosted by EMc73
02/20/2018 01:48 AMPosted by Hera
I don’t understand your obsession with believing that everything in the support category is completely okay, one healer is basically ruling the whole thing while Zen is out by himself. I also don’t understand how you can think Lucio can be a main healer, sure he can do a lot of healing, but when it really matters, when you’re being attacked by someone, can Lucio really help? It’s even delusional to think that you could run Lucio and Zen and it be enough healing. Right now it’s difficult to even run Mercy & Zen with Mercy’s very low utility besides her healing beam at the moment. I don’t know what game you’re playing but it’s not the same as mine.

And also, why are you so obsessed with my rank and stats? I didn’t once check yours because I’m just making an argument based on what you’ve said on the forums and not attacking you because of what characters you play or what rank you are. You really need to chill...


Lucio and Zen has literally been the meta for like, the majority of competitive seasons. It was only really season 1 (where it was double Lucio), season 3 and a bit of 4 (where it was Ana's triple tank) and last season (where it was Mercy), where people weren't running Lucio and Zen frequently.

They work very well together, and the healing is enough. Try playing them next time there isn't a "must-pick" healer.

And, because it's relevant. It's hard to justify buffing a statistically FAR above average hero, and I don't think it's right to say "look at the one rank where she is a bit below average" if you don't even play there.


Do you know that Lucio’s gotten nerfs to his aura...? Did you miss that or..? The plummet from nearly 100% (like 16%) over one major nerf, not a re-work, she still has the exact same kit as before really says something, am I the only one? And also I don’t know earlier metas too well apart from what I’ve heard, there’s no need to act smart and be rude about it.
02/20/2018 02:04 AMPosted by Hera
Do you know that Lucio’s gotten nerfs to his aura...? Did you miss that or..? The plummet from nearly 100% (like 16%) over one major nerf, not a re-work, she still has the exact same kit as before really says something, am I the only one? And also I don’t know earlier metas too well apart from what I’ve heard, there’s no need to act smart and be rude about it.


Lucio's radius nerf came hand in hand with greatly increased mobility, a highly buffed gun, and a healing per second buff. His position in the meta and his perceived overall strength did not change, and he remains a perfectly balanced main healer.
In GM (which is what matters) Mercy's pick rate is 3.06%, in the bottom half.


but for all leagues she is top 3 hero. GM is not right league to balance game around, especially when we are speaking about the easiest hero in the game.
02/20/2018 02:08 AMPosted by EMc73
02/20/2018 02:04 AMPosted by Hera
Do you know that Lucio’s gotten nerfs to his aura...? Did you miss that or..? The plummet from nearly 100% (like 16%) over one major nerf, not a re-work, she still has the exact same kit as before really says something, am I the only one? And also I don’t know earlier metas too well apart from what I’ve heard, there’s no need to act smart and be rude about it.


Lucio's radius nerf came hand in hand with greatly increased mobility, a highly buffed gun, and a healing per second buff. His position in the meta and his perceived overall strength did not change, and he remains a perfectly balanced main healer.


If your way of thinking is how the devs think then I really have no hope for this game. It’s like talking to a brick wall.
02/19/2018 11:35 PMPosted by Starlight
She's a healer who can do tons of healing with great mobility in a mobilty meta.

And the devs won't balance other healers so she is basically best one atm (debatable as I still main mercy well)

Pick rate of a healer when only 5 on game isn't shocking...and 2 are extremely situational.
02/19/2018 11:34 PMPosted by Pulsefire
Not a "Nerf this" thread, but I do think it might be worth pointing out.
Also, not a "DPS Main complaining about Moira" thread - this has nothing to do with her K/D ratio.
And to be clear, I'm talking about THIS week only according to Overbuff.
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes#

Moira is the highest picked character across silver to GM, and her Winrate goes up the higher up the ranks you go.
Seriously, she's got a 55% Winrate in GM, despite over 10% pickrate.
In Masters, she's got a Winrate a bit lower then Diamond - 53.32 compared to 53.66 - but she's also got a significantly higher pickrate, at 11.55 to 10.75 in Diamond.

So not only is her pickrate nearing what Mercy's was during her hayday (when she was a constant pick on both sides) - her higher then 50% winrate also means that if your team does NOT have a Moira, you're odds of winning drop dramatically.

We'll see if the bugfix to her healing through shields changes this, but if this trend continues, she might be due for a Nerf.

So let me explain:
This game has 6 tanks and 5 healers while haveing 15 dps. You always have 2 healer in your team. Thats why tanks and Supports always have the highest pickrate.

So If you look at the top 5 pickrates, there are 3 supports,1 tank, 1 dps.

If you look at top 10 pickrates, there are 3 supports, 5 tanks, 2 dps.

Tanks and Supports are overpowered?

Winrate she is still lower than Zenyatta.
But winrate still means sh!t.
If you look at top 5 winrates in gm this week:
1. Mei
2. Trobjörn
3. Zenyatta
4. Symmetra
5. Orisa

What does this tell you?
These hero needs a nerf?
No these are mostly the weakest and most situational heroes.

Winrate in gm means sh!t because as a gm player you dont play always with or against gms.

Pickrate and winrate just means most viable. This is map dependend and other hero dependend. Moira wouldnt have that pickrate if tripple dps would be the way to go.
02/20/2018 01:30 AMPosted by Yin
02/19/2018 11:35 PMPosted by Starlight
She's a healer who can do tons of healing with great mobility in a mobilty meta.


All the major short-ranged healers have tons of mobility. Moira is arguably the worse at it.


Ana and Zen don't have Moiras fade or anything like it, Lucio has the mobility not alot of heals like her. Mercy is just pretty much useless now and will be for a long time. Moira's fade is on a low cooldown so she can move around more than the others. They eliminated a main healer (Mercy) so Moira is played and Ana won't be played because she has no escape ability if dove. You eliminate the top dog someone else will take over.
She's the only healer really worth playing these days, as the others (I think except Zen) have been ruined in some way or another by nerfs. That's why her pick rate is up. Look at Mercy recently for example, a rework that many I believe didn't want and now her ultimate is dull and pretty much dead in the water (aka a spectator ability).
D.Va is getting a new skin based on the zodiac, Libra. Her ult line will become "balance this!"

Mercy, of course, is getting a Cancer skin alongside Symmetra, Torbjörn and a new extra hero.

Should make the game more playable by properly identifying the place of some heroes in the meta.

Did I forget Bastion? Haha, happens.

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