Is anyone else concerned about Moira's pickrate/Winrate ?

General Discussion
She is easy to play, little to no aim, deals serious damages, life tap and can fade away.
No wonder why she is picked that much.
shes the strongest healer seen as blizzard nerfed all the rest of the supports, so no it doesn't surprise me nor does it concern me
02/19/2018 11:42 PMPosted by Bex
02/19/2018 11:34 PMPosted by Pulsefire
We'll see if the bugfix to her healing through shields changes this
What? Its not a bug its consistent with how barriers work. This video explains it perfectly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOdKaJIby64
Damn, nice to know the forums hate facts.
As other said, the problem is not Moira but limited choice between support heroes and constant nerfs those heroes saw in the past.

Supports don't have the luxury of dps where you have great variety and hero for about any situation and composition. For supports you have only Moira/Mercy/Ana for main healer and Lucio/Zen for off-healer. That is all. Ofc one of them going to have high numbers.

If there were way more support heroes we would see similar numbers as dps.

As someone who was forced to play support (because everyone else instalocks dps and refuses to switch) i actually enjoy Moira because she is first character that has actual resource management and can deal with flankers. She is just fun to play compared to mind-numbling left click of Mercy (personal preference, not trying to bash on Mercy players).
No. Stop asking for healer nerfs. Why does Moira need to be nerfed? Even if she's picked over other healers why does that mean she deserves to be nerfed? OK so by your logic Genji and Tracer should've been nerfed ages ago since they've literally never fallen out of meta once and have constantly been picked over other dps EVEN ON DEFEND. (and yes ppl still played them plenty during Tank Meta)
02/19/2018 11:56 PMPosted by EMc73
1) Mercy isnt dead. She's doing just fine statistically, even if you find her boring.


I don't think people are arguing too much about how Mercy is doing. But, the fun factor is really the big issue. Why play Mercy if you can have fun on Moira and be just as effective or better.

02/19/2018 11:56 PMPosted by EMc73
2) Ana is a genuine competitor. Her pickrate isn't low. People are playing her.


Ana doesn't work very well in or against dive. If your good with her she can definetly be used but, its far easier to learn Moira, Zen or Lucio.

02/19/2018 11:56 PMPosted by EMc73
3) Lucio is also a main healer and competes with Moira. He is also perfectly balanced.


Lucio isn't a main healer. He is very much so an off support. It just so happens that his utility is sometimes more favourable than running a main support. I don't know why you brought up balance here?

02/19/2018 11:56 PMPosted by EMc73
4) Zen is also perfectly balanced, and given that the team is already running a main healer he can compete with Moira for her spot.


Zen doesn't really compete with Moira and Moira doesn't really compete for Zen. They are currently both getting played. I've seen a few arguments that Zen is a sleeper OP hero. I don't think its true but, I also don't think he is perfectly balanced.

As for the OP. I don't have many concerns over Moiras pick rate. Its not that surprising, Mercy whilst maybe balanced is just not fun to play. Moira is basically Mercy 3.0 in a sense. People have moved on to a more interesting hero overall that fills the same role.
This is not because Moira is OP, rather that Mercy and Ana are underwhelming. Ana is harder than Moira, but given similar skill levels, it's much easier to provide value with Moira over Ana. Mercy still performs better than Ana as well, even after her nerfs. The Mercy rework did not render her unviable, rather just that she isn't very fun to play anymore.

Ana does not reach a positive rate until GM, and for her to be so hard to access and to still have the lowest win rate of all supports in the only rank she has a positive win rate is definitely a problem.

With people not wanting to play Mercy because she isn't as fun and having a trashy ult and midfight, and Ana being so hard to use, only GM to pro level players can make use of her (and even then, Ana still under performs compared to other supports in even GM to pro), that usually leaves one choice for a main healer in most circumstances. Maybe I'd be concerned if there were 5 or more main healers and Moira was still dominating, but considering there's only 3.... Let's look into Mercy and Ana instead, okay?
Every other support is getting nerfed constantly and you're SURPRISED that Moira has the best pickrate and winrate as a new support.

Do you want ALL the supports to suck? There's 5 of them. Mercy and Ana suck. Lucio is getting hit by backhanded nerfs and both he and Lucio are the most effected when Sombra becomes meta. And yet, Moira is the problem.

I'm tired of this.
02/20/2018 05:59 AMPosted by Miscanadian
Every other support is getting nerfed constantly and you're SURPRISED that Moira has the best pickrate and winrate as a new support.

Do you want ALL the supports to suck? There's 5 of them. Mercy and Ana suck. Lucio is getting hit by backhanded nerfs and both he and Lucio are the most effected when Sombra becomes meta. And yet, Moira is the problem.

I'm tired of this.


You want the truth - I kinda want Ana to be the best main healer in the game in regards to performance.
She takes the most skill, so I'd like her to have the highest impact when mastered.

The overall balance of the game should probably revolve around giving characters with higher skill floors a higher overall capabilities as well.

But as it stands, Moira and her Orb + Regular heal provides you with about the same HPS then Ana + Nade does - and she can do this to multiple characters at once...
02/20/2018 06:14 AMPosted by Pulsefire
02/20/2018 05:59 AMPosted by Miscanadian
Every other support is getting nerfed constantly and you're SURPRISED that Moira has the best pickrate and winrate as a new support.

Do you want ALL the supports to suck? There's 5 of them. Mercy and Ana suck. Lucio is getting hit by backhanded nerfs and both he and Lucio are the most effected when Sombra becomes meta. And yet, Moira is the problem.

I'm tired of this.


You want the truth - I kinda want Ana to be the best main healer in the game in regards to performance.
She takes the most skill, so I'd like her to have the highest impact when mastered.

The overall balance of the game should probably revolve around giving characters with higher skill floors a higher overall capabilities as well.

But as it stands, Moira and her Orb + Regular heal provides you with about the same HPS then Ana + Nade does - and she can do this to multiple characters at once...


But Ana is the worst support at the moment and bringing Moira down to her level only hurts support players.
02/20/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Buttercult
02/19/2018 11:46 PMPosted by Seph
not because she was buffed or anything but because other healers were nerfed


Where is this idea that all the supports keep getting nerfed coming from? Mercy got massively buffed, then nerfed a bunch of times. Nobody else has been nerfed.
Well a while ago Lucio was reworked and then he keeps getting indirectly nerfed, Ana got a harsh nerf from triple tank meta and her only compensation was 70 damage which doesn't help her current situation at all, Mercy got gutted like Ana did when she was in the spotlight, Sym has always been low tier, that only leaves Moira and Zen as the most impactful support picks.
you can pretty much guarantee blizzard will nerf moira so those surface stats will change, while doing nothing for the mind-numbing snooze fest that the 'meta' is.

(The meta being no more sophisticated than a timed game of checkers)
Not really. She's turning into a main support with the pickrate of Genji's and Tracer's. Nothing wrong with that.
02/19/2018 11:34 PMPosted by Pulsefire
Not a "Nerf this" thread, but I do think it might be worth pointing out.
Also, not a "DPS Main complaining about Moira" thread - this has nothing to do with her K/D ratio.
And to be clear, I'm talking about THIS week only according to Overbuff.
https://www.overbuff.com/heroes#

Moira is the highest picked character across silver to GM, and her Winrate goes up the higher up the ranks you go.
Seriously, she's got a 55% Winrate in GM, despite over 10% pickrate.
In Masters, she's got a Winrate a bit lower then Diamond - 53.32 compared to 53.66 - but she's also got a significantly higher pickrate, at 11.55 to 10.75 in Diamond.

So not only is her pickrate nearing what Mercy's was during her hayday (when she was a constant pick on both sides) - her higher then 50% winrate also means that if your team does NOT have a Moira, you're odds of winning drop dramatically.

We'll see if the bugfix to her healing through shields changes this, but if this trend continues, she might be due for a Nerf.


Not worried at all. It think part of it has to do with people trying her out and part of it has to do with Mercy not being a "must pick". Moira is definitely NOT a "must pick" you can still win just as effectively with Mercy or even Ana.
Blizzard should nerf moira not just reducing something but adding skill requirements , if they just remove aimbot from orb and hand it doesn't change her dps but pick rate and winrate will be changed significantly
Her GM winwrate is 8th, and two heroes with higher pickrates than her also have higher winrates. Not to say other supports shouldn't be buffed, just that 55% winrate in GM is pretty average (all of the heroes except Hanzo have 51% or higher winrates)
Not really. Others have indicated that poor showing on other supports is a reason for higher pickrates but I have an alternate proposal:

Genji/Tracer get picked a lot, everywhere. Going a day without seeing one is unheard of. They also make support life hell. A moment of inattention can lead to a oneclip or animation cancel death for most supports.

BUT those guys don't like Moira. Hate her from the sounds of it. So if you play Moira you deal with less Tracer/Genji. As in, you get vultured less by classes you, by design, really can't do much against without supreme effort as most supports.

I think Moiras pickrate is up as a reaction to (and maybe revenge against) the omnipresent nature of Tracer/Genji.
02/19/2018 11:35 PMPosted by Starlight
She's a healer who can do tons of healing with great mobility in a mobilty meta.


The problem is she literally has everything going for her.

As you said she has a ton of healing.
Her mobility is nothing to scoff at.
Plus she can consistently hold her own against the very people designed around killing supports.

No hero should be as completely rounded as she is. Something needs to be toned down.

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