Loot box is gambling or not ?

General Discussion
buying something for random stuffs is gambling.
so if you don't buy it, then it's not gambling
02/17/2018 03:43 AMPosted by xeNNNNN
02/17/2018 03:40 AMPosted by Kilokami
i dont see it as gambling. at least in the sense that they try to show it as.
it is rng based, but rng does not equal gambling.
if there is a system that lets you trade lootboxes or items gained from lootboxes for real world currency or items, then lootboxes would be gambling.
when there is not any real world exchange you are just buying rng boxes that contain loot based on rng. if this is considered gambling, then any game that uses any form of rng to distribute loot should fall under gambling as well.

people should be held accountable for their actions of purchasing lootboxes, knowing that it is rng and stop having their hands held for when they babyrage when they didnt get what they wanted.


The problem with that is addiction is not something easily brushed aside or treated. Even a perfectly logical person can be consumed by addiction and its not easy to break or stop. Companies should be held to account as well as they are knowingly feeding these addictions which have ruined peoples lives. They are the proverbial drug dealers of the industry.

The consumer must be protected as well.

there are ways to protect the consumers that cant control themselves without mislabeling something and removing an entire form of transaction.

they can keep lootboxes and put in a limit of purchasable lootboxes per day or week. most people wont hit that limit but it will stop those who cant control themselves to a degree.
this wont stop them completely, but the fault should not be placed 100% on companies.
02/17/2018 03:32 AMPosted by Kamran
02/17/2018 03:30 AMPosted by GreenVGC
And every event I spend $300 on loot boxes and get everything on the first day.

well you can get everything by 100$ i couldn't play the game during holloween event and bought around 80 lootboxes and got everything.


But I like them dupes for them coins lol
02/17/2018 03:26 AMPosted by ShadowDarter
02/17/2018 03:11 AMPosted by RichC
These aren't EA lootboxes. They don't effect gameplay or game mechanics in any way. Imagine having to loot a Reinhardt shield with 1000 more HP, or a Tracer blink upgrade that gave you 4 blinks instead of 3. That would be absolutely stupid. The way Blizzard is doing their lootboxes is more than fine.

So long as it stays this way, I have no problems.


RichC not often we disagree on anything to be honest, This time though we are in a disagreement my friend. yes every reward can be gained over time thus offering the player the illusion of everything being fair and balanced.

But there is a catch that honestly is a dingo's breakfast. all of the content AKA the rewards are first year time limited as well as seasonal limited. that means that you need to either get lucky with loot boxes you earn during each event to get what you want before the event ends or pony up from your wallet to get want. Also note that previous event loot box items will be locked out once this years event is over.

This is not healthy, and honestly very predatory in nature at least to me.

You might be right. I guess I was speaking more for myself. I rarely want more than 1 skin from each event (usually a tank skin). But I can understand the frustration for those that want a lot of the new skin content.

I'll be happy if I loot the Zarya or Winston Skin (I will probably buy the Winston one with my coins). I always try to have 3-4K coins come event time so I know I will at least be able to get 1 skin I want (I usually only want 1).
In EU the supreme court decided that it is gambling. Whether i like it or not that is the law. Personally i think it is gambling, due to the limited time only nature of it. If all content was always available for everyone to farm then it would not be gambling.
Since it is on a time limit that means it preys on people's inability to wait and "makes" certain people buy it for money.
Furthermore they (the people that buy lootboxes) use something with real value aka money and they do not get a specific item but rather a "chance" at getting something, which to me is considered gambling.
But, i want to say that OW has the most "fair" kind of gambling. There are many companies out there that use pure "gambling psychology techniques" to milk their customers out of money, selling items that are overpowered, making those games p2w.
No because with gambling theres a chance you'll get something thats actually valuable
02/17/2018 03:58 AMPosted by RichC
02/17/2018 03:26 AMPosted by ShadowDarter
...

RichC not often we disagree on anything to be honest, This time though we are in a disagreement my friend. yes every reward can be gained over time thus offering the player the illusion of everything being fair and balanced.

But there is a catch that honestly is a dingo's breakfast. all of the content AKA the rewards are first year time limited as well as seasonal limited. that means that you need to either get lucky with loot boxes you earn during each event to get what you want before the event ends or pony up from your wallet to get want. Also note that previous event loot box items will be locked out once this years event is over.

This is not healthy, and honestly very predatory in nature at least to me.

You might be right. I guess I was speaking more for myself. I rarely want more than 1 skin from each event (usually a tank skin). But I can understand the frustration for those that want a lot of the new skin content.

I'll be happy if I loot the Zarya or Winston Skin (I will probably buy the Winston one with my coins). I always try to have 3-4K coins come event time so I know I will at least be able to get 1 skin I want (I usually only want 1).


No problems this is why we main both Tank and Defensive heroes, we see the same issues with different points of view but we want the same thing in the end. There will always be conflicts of view but our targets and those we want to protect are the same.
I think it is a gamble, yes. You buy lootboxes, not knowing their content- the items can either be to your liking or not. If you open a certain amount of lootboxes and not get a result that makes you feel as if you got your money's worth out of it- then you feel as if you 'lost' at 'the gamble' you took buying them. If you do get whatever it is you were hoping for, you have essentially 'won'. I don't see anything particularly wrong with the system by the way- I think people are very well aware that buying lootboxes isn't going to assure you to get high end stuff, so I think it's in part up to people to act responsible when it comes to things like this or real life gambling at a casino for example.
By legal definition, no (not yet at least).

From a psychological point though? Definitely. It uses the same "just one more try" mechanic that's present in slot machines and the like. Furthermore videogame companies sometimes hire psychologists to help implement these addicting, chance-based systems.

I kid you not.
it's common in game nowadays why bother? it's actually one of the reason of the fun from the game.
Opening something random for goods, it's fun you know. That's why it's called gambling.
It is probably good to at least warn people about it. It is okay if you are a so called whale and it is on your own money and all; but you know that there are some people who dip in more than they are capable. Feels kinda wrong.

Though it is arguable if calling it as a ‘gamble’ would even stop these type of people.
02/17/2018 03:26 AMPosted by ShadowDarter
02/17/2018 03:11 AMPosted by RichC
These aren't EA lootboxes. They don't effect gameplay or game mechanics in any way. Imagine having to loot a Reinhardt shield with 1000 more HP, or a Tracer blink upgrade that gave you 4 blinks instead of 3. That would be absolutely stupid. The way Blizzard is doing their lootboxes is more than fine.

So long as it stays this way, I have no problems.


RichC not often we disagree on anything to be honest, This time though we are in a disagreement my friend. yes every reward can be gained over time thus offering the player the illusion of everything being fair and balanced.

But there is a catch that honestly is a dingo's breakfast. all of the content AKA the rewards are first year time limited as well as seasonal limited. that means that you need to either get lucky with loot boxes you earn during each event to get what you want before the event ends or pony up from your wallet to get want. Also note that previous event loot box items will be locked out once this years event is over.

This is not healthy, and honestly very predatory in nature at least to me.
You're wrong about first year time limited. The ONLY things that are time limited aren't even part of the RNG factor.

Don't get something from an event the first year, can save up your currency and get it the following year at 1/3rd of the original price.

Also, these lootboxes have never been gambling as gambling you're not able to mitigate the risks. You can mitigate the risks quite a bit with this system we got where I feel like I'm able to get my top 3 items each event without spending a dime. This system is very player friendly if you're disciplined.
It's gambling in the sense that lucky dips or tombolas are at school fairs. It's not high stakes stuff.
02/17/2018 03:55 AMPosted by Kilokami
02/17/2018 03:43 AMPosted by xeNNNNN
...

The problem with that is addiction is not something easily brushed aside or treated. Even a perfectly logical person can be consumed by addiction and its not easy to break or stop. Companies should be held to account as well as they are knowingly feeding these addictions which have ruined peoples lives. They are the proverbial drug dealers of the industry.

The consumer must be protected as well.

there are ways to protect the consumers that cant control themselves without mislabeling something and removing an entire form of transaction.

they can keep lootboxes and put in a limit of purchasable lootboxes per day or week. most people wont hit that limit but it will stop those who cant control themselves to a degree.
this wont stop them completely, but the fault should not be placed 100% on companies.
Companies tend to get stuck with the short end of things because it's easier to blame the company than the consumer. Seriously, lawyers see things not as, "who was responsible" but rather, they see it as, "who can pay". And most politicians are lawyers.
02/17/2018 02:52 AMPosted by Alabuster
In one event, Many players ....
-..... purchase many event loot boxes from shop
-.....spend their time to play for Level up for getting 1 loot box

But they don't get the skin that they want because It's depend on their luck
The golds when get from duplicated item is too little

Why Blizzard don't sell Gold (Coin in game) in shop and has loot box as giveaway
Like Chinese Server....


In Germany this is to be decided officially in march. We'll see what happens.
02/17/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Zefiris
02/17/2018 03:26 AMPosted by ShadowDarter
...

RichC not often we disagree on anything to be honest, This time though we are in a disagreement my friend. yes every reward can be gained over time thus offering the player the illusion of everything being fair and balanced.

But there is a catch that honestly is a dingo's breakfast. all of the content AKA the rewards are first year time limited as well as seasonal limited. that means that you need to either get lucky with loot boxes you earn during each event to get what you want before the event ends or pony up from your wallet to get want. Also note that previous event loot box items will be locked out once this years event is over.

This is not healthy, and honestly very predatory in nature at least to me.
You're wrong about first year time limited. The ONLY things that are time limited aren't even part of the RNG factor.

Don't get something from an event the first year, can save up your currency and get it the following year at 1/3rd of the original price.

Also, these lootboxes have never been gambling as gambling you're not able to mitigate the risks. You can mitigate the risks quite a bit with this system we got where I feel like I'm able to get my top 3 items each event without spending a dime. This system is very player friendly if you're disciplined.


If you are disciplined but if you are not then it is predatory as hell. Most Gambling systems throughout history are based on taking the money from those who do not have discipline. This is a predatory practice. The only issues at this time is that Loot boxes have never really come under the public eye. until now. Will laws change from nation to nation, and states within those nations pretty much count it as a "HELL YEAH."
Last I knew that unless the ESRB does not act to update its ratings to include loot boxes as gambling the FTC is going to crackdown on it.

In Japan, Belgium, and Australia however loot boxes are classified as gambling and regulated. Further a large chunk of the US is investigating them and even congress is starting to move. Washington State and Hawaii both have bills going forward to regulate them under gambling laws.

So unless Blizzard does something the game is going to have an AO rating.

Mechanically and psychologically loot boxes regardless of what they give are gambling, and with the World Health Organization making Gaming Disorder a thing the addictive nature of loot boxes as well as their monetary cost make them an easy gateway into compulsive gambling disorders and gambling addiction. Which is what is compelling law makers to take action.

Battlefront 2 EA merely dragged the issue up and helped expose it.
its not gambling because what you get on lootboxes is not game changing, purely cosmetics
02/17/2018 05:02 AMPosted by SAdTIREd
its not gambling because what you get on lootboxes is not game changing, purely cosmetics


Wrong. What you mean is: It's not pay-to-win.

Gambling:
1. play games of chance for money; bet.
2. take risky action in the hope of a desired result.
Anything that involves an uncertain outcome in return for rewards is gambling. Whether those rewards are physical or virtual should not matter.

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