D'Va Ability to Dive Supports

General Discussion
Please note, this is coming from someone who ends up playing a lot of support when filling in, or tank lately when I get frustrated with support (mainly Rein). I could have put squishies here instead of supports, but my main problem is that in a 6v6 game like overwatch, taking out a main support usually turns the tide of battle.

I do think D'va is flawed in terms of her design, but not necessarily overpowered in a single character sense. She can be punished a lot if she gets too aggressive, but my main problem with her character design right now is how she can guarentee a kill on almost any healer. She's supposed to be a sorta glass cannon sorta of tank, but my issue is that a glass cannon should be punished hard if they get way too aggressive, and shouldn't get a kill out of it. And with the combination of using her missiles, dive, and defense matrix all at the same time, that doesn't seem to be case. When she dives the following supports:

Zen: Zen is screwed. Yeah, he gets the orb on her, but with the D Matrix she can guarentee him dead with his lack of mobility.
Mercy: She's too slow even with her guardian angel, and how much control you have as D'va with your dive. The only times that she can't react/gets out of range is if you GA at the very distance of her GA range.
Lucio: Speed boost only slightly helps, because D'VA can keep up with it. You've got to be in the right place in order to avoid this.
Moira: Moira is the most suited with her ability to fade, as it can be held long enough to avoid the damage, and she can self heal. Even if she gets hit a bunch, she'll probably survive....but if her fade is down she's absolutely 100% screwed.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel that the main problem I have is the ability to use Defense Matrix while diving AND bombing with rockets. If you couldn't do one of the three of these things, she'd be in a lot better place. Alternatively, that her defense matrix drains a bit faster if using dash/rockets, making the period in which you need to protect yourself as D'Va smaller and more skill based.

I'm open to ideas, but I think that's the primary reason why D'Va's win rate is so high compared to other heroes that are regularly used. I don't want to nerf D'Va in the ground, and if there's something I'm missing with taking her out, I'm all ears. But I feel like she is overpowered in that sense.
I play alot of D.Va and I wish she had more survivability and less damage tbh, I miss her old play-style with the defense matrix, it's my opinion though, preparing for the down votes. :P
02/19/2018 05:45 AMPosted by tg3thrsoul
I play alot of D.Va and I wish she had more survivability and less damage tbh, I miss her old play-style with the defense matrix, it's my opinion though, preparing for the down votes. :P


I'd be thrilled if they cut D.Va's damage by 33% and gave her 450 armor/150 hp.
Tbh I still want D.va changes reverted
02/19/2018 05:48 AMPosted by Campari
02/19/2018 05:45 AMPosted by tg3thrsoul
I play alot of D.Va and I wish she had more survivability and less damage tbh, I miss her old play-style with the defense matrix, it's my opinion though, preparing for the down votes. :P


I'd be thrilled if they cut D.Va's damage by 33% and gave her 450 armor/150 hp.


Omg yes I would love her to have more armor and less damage I miss the Dva with high armor but it felt unfair cos her damage was too high..
They need to remove phasing. It's really dumb that I can press all buttons and fly right through tanks, DPS and supports, turn around and win the fight by that point. DVa should be stopped dead in her tracks on second contact with bumped target.

That's an easy fix for a glaring problem.
Bleh.
D.Va's outplayable by most healers and teamwork.
You should worry more about Winston deleting supports in an instant.
If one teammate comes to help against D.Va, she's doomed, Winston isn't. He'll keep erasing you + potentially your teammate and jump away, he may even scare your other teammates.
02/19/2018 05:52 AMPosted by TheAkutsu
Bleh.
D.Va's outplayable by most healers and teamwork.
You should worry more about Winston deleting supports in an instant.
If one teammate comes to help against D.Va, she's doomed, Winston isn't. He'll keep erasing you + potentially your teammate and jump away, he may even scare your other teammates.


Sorta. I mean the problem I see is positioning there. Again, if you get behind the d'va then maybe: but her ability to absorb damage via defense matrix and still be firing means she can absorb the hits and keep doing damage. Once she's out of her skills, she's pretty much doomed, but I find in 9/10 cases, she's done enough at that point to really kill you.

Winston at least I can lure in terms of his jump, or hit him with a sleep dart. He doesn't have enough burst damage to kill me out right, or I can at least call for someone to help. The problem I see with D'va is that yeah, I call out for help, but by that time, it's most likely too late, even if the tank/DPS immediately reacts.
02/19/2018 06:59 AMPosted by Dragnix
02/19/2018 05:52 AMPosted by TheAkutsu
Bleh.
D.Va's outplayable by most healers and teamwork.
You should worry more about Winston deleting supports in an instant.
If one teammate comes to help against D.Va, she's doomed, Winston isn't. He'll keep erasing you + potentially your teammate and jump away, he may even scare your other teammates.


Sorta. I mean the problem I see is positioning there. Again, if you get behind the d'va then maybe: but her ability to absorb damage via defense matrix and still be firing means she can absorb the hits and keep doing damage. Once she's out of her skills, she's pretty much doomed, but I find in 9/10 cases, she's done enough at that point to really kill you.

Winston at least I can lure in terms of his jump, or hit him with a sleep dart. He doesn't have enough burst damage to kill me out right, or I can at least call for someone to help. The problem I see with D'va is that yeah, I call out for help, but by that time, it's most likely too late, even if the tank/DPS immediately reacts.


It lasts 2 seconds, if no one is shooting at the giant metal ball of pink death as it targets your support its your teamwork that needs work not D.Va.

Try, and here me out this may sound crazy, shooting at the matrix. And like okay stay with me here is where it gets really insane! not just you but like at least one other of your team mates!
Hey OP, your d.va remarks are true of any character attacking a support. Most supports, 1 v 1, lose to basically any tank. A skilled dps'er will also take down the support. The key to playing support is to stay with your tanks and request aid when needed. As a d.va main, i make it my mission to keep my supports alive, otherwise they are easy pickings.
02/19/2018 07:01 AMPosted by Fainora
02/19/2018 06:59 AMPosted by Dragnix
...

Sorta. I mean the problem I see is positioning there. Again, if you get behind the d'va then maybe: but her ability to absorb damage via defense matrix and still be firing means she can absorb the hits and keep doing damage. Once she's out of her skills, she's pretty much doomed, but I find in 9/10 cases, she's done enough at that point to really kill you.

Winston at least I can lure in terms of his jump, or hit him with a sleep dart. He doesn't have enough burst damage to kill me out right, or I can at least call for someone to help. The problem I see with D'va is that yeah, I call out for help, but by that time, it's most likely too late, even if the tank/DPS immediately reacts.


It lasts 2 seconds, if no one is shooting at the giant metal ball of pink death as it targets your support its your teamwork that needs work not D.Va.

Try, and here me out this may sound crazy, shooting at the matrix. And like okay stay with me here is where it gets really insane! not just you but like at least one other of your team mates!


It's 2 seconds: which is longer then the length of micromissiles full barrage (1.6) and the same length approxiimately as her dash (2 seconds). So shooting at her is great and all....but she can be invincible during that entire time.

Now, will she be completely screwed when she comes out of the dive? Yes, she's a sitting duck in that case. Yeah, she is, with people focused on the dva. But she's probably already done the damage she needs to finish you off, without having to take the damage thanks to Defense Matrix and diving.

Shooting at it is
02/19/2018 06:59 AMPosted by Dragnix
02/19/2018 05:52 AMPosted by TheAkutsu
Bleh.
D.Va's outplayable by most healers and teamwork.
You should worry more about Winston deleting supports in an instant.
If one teammate comes to help against D.Va, she's doomed, Winston isn't. He'll keep erasing you + potentially your teammate and jump away, he may even scare your other teammates.


Sorta. I mean the problem I see is positioning there. Again, if you get behind the d'va then maybe: but her ability to absorb damage via defense matrix and still be firing means she can absorb the hits and keep doing damage. Once she's out of her skills, she's pretty much doomed, but I find in 9/10 cases, she's done enough at that point to really kill you.

Winston at least I can lure in terms of his jump, or hit him with a sleep dart. He doesn't have enough burst damage to kill me out right, or I can at least call for someone to help. The problem I see with D'va is that yeah, I call out for help, but by that time, it's most likely too late, even if the tank/DPS immediately reacts.


See it this way: if dva uses her dive and rockets on support, she's screwed after that. She gets the support kill, then her teammates can bring her down. So it's a tank/support trade. Battle can still go either way
02/19/2018 07:05 AMPosted by DBDchefdog
Hey OP, your d.va remarks are true of any character attacking a support. Most supports, 1 v 1, lose to basically any tank. A skilled dps'er will also take down the support. The key to playing support is to stay with your tanks and request aid when needed. As a d.va main, i make it my mission to keep my supports alive, otherwise they are easy pickings.


I completely disagree. Most tanks don't have the Burst damage that D'Va has:

Winston has to keep up with me to keep the damage on. A boop from lucio or an ana dart keeps them off me.

Zarya needs energy to stay on top of me.

Roadhog can pull and hit, but I can fix that with my positioning. D'va I can't, because she can dive through my positioning.

Reinhardt is the best option in most cases due to his hammer and ability to manipulate them.
02/19/2018 07:08 AMPosted by DBDchefdog
02/19/2018 06:59 AMPosted by Dragnix
...

Sorta. I mean the problem I see is positioning there. Again, if you get behind the d'va then maybe: but her ability to absorb damage via defense matrix and still be firing means she can absorb the hits and keep doing damage. Once she's out of her skills, she's pretty much doomed, but I find in 9/10 cases, she's done enough at that point to really kill you.

Winston at least I can lure in terms of his jump, or hit him with a sleep dart. He doesn't have enough burst damage to kill me out right, or I can at least call for someone to help. The problem I see with D'va is that yeah, I call out for help, but by that time, it's most likely too late, even if the tank/DPS immediately reacts.


See it this way: if dva uses her dive and rockets on support, she's screwed after that. She gets the support kill, then her teammates can bring her down. So it's a tank/support trade. Battle can still go either way


That's the whole point though of the post. The percentage in which D'va can guarentee a support/tank trade is pretty damn high, and in 6v6 like this, a tank for a support seems like a great trade for a team in almost every case, especially if its the main healer.

I question if that's a good thing for the balance of the game without there being a bit more skill needed on the D'vas part to guarentee it.
I genuinely find it A LOT easier to kill a support by diving them as Winston, as opposed to diving them as D.Va. And I'm infinitely better at D.Va. Like the Mid Diamond Winston vs. GM D.Va kinda better.

I jump into groups of enemies that I wouldn't even think about jumping into as D.Va, get a kill, and get back out. As D.Va I would've just died.

Winston is so much better at it imo.

But with both, you can avoid it the same way. Actual good positioning and having a team that doesn't ignore them.
02/19/2018 07:07 AMPosted by Dragnix
It's 2 seconds: which is longer then the length of micromissiles full barrage (1.6) and the same length approxiimately as her dash (2 seconds). So shooting at her is great and all....but she can be invincible during that entire time.

Now, will she be completely screwed when she comes out of the dive? Yes, she's a sitting duck in that case. Yeah, she is, with people focused on the dva. But she's probably already done the damage she needs to finish you off, without having to take the damage thanks to Defense Matrix and diving.

Shooting at it is


1) The missiles have a short cast time before they kick in, so DM has to be activated after missiles for it to cover missiles.
2) DM only works in a focused frontal cone. This means that unless the DPS is stacked on top of the healer being dived D.Va is vulnerable to the DPS.
3) If you can dodge Pharah rockets you can dodge missiles, which makes it easy for the person being focused to mitigate the damage, as if D.Va is DMing then she cannot use her fusion cannons.
4) If D.Va is using her fusion cannons then even if a DPS is stacked with the healer then the DPS can pop D.Va via her critbox.

A lot of things have to go right for D.Va to pull off an effective dive, and she has to burst assassinate the target to stand a chance. Hence why its easier for winston generally to do the job.
D.Va can’t just go in solo and dive a support with decent positioning, kill them, and come out alive. If a support is consistently dying to D.Va and D.Va alone then they are probably super out of position and she saw that and took the opportunity to punish them for that. That, or the support’s team has extreme tunnel vision and just does not care about its supports.
A lot of crazy kids in here missing easy DVa.

If DVa is solo killing your supports, your team is bad. Her entire front is made out of crit box
02/19/2018 07:34 AMPosted by CamKitty
A lot of crazy kids in here missing easy DVa.

If DVa is solo killing your supports, your team is bad. Her entire front is made out of crit box


*points to the post where I'm talking about using defense matrix in a one v one trade*
02/19/2018 07:40 AMPosted by Dragnix
02/19/2018 07:34 AMPosted by CamKitty
A lot of crazy kids in here missing easy DVa.

If DVa is solo killing your supports, your team is bad. Her entire front is made out of crit box


*points to the post where I'm talking about using defense matrix in a one v one trade*


Doesn't change that she should have died on the way in

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