The Mercy Re-Work Didn't Work

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The entire point of the re-work was to make her more fun and engaging but in the end she has become less engaging, when she activates her ultimate ability she has to disengage from her team and hold one of two buttons the entire duration of her ultimate to get the most out of her ultimate.

Resurrect is better suited as a ultimate ability than a regular ability, no other character has a regular ability that requires this much coordination from the rest of the team to accomplish. It has no mid fight power. It can only be used at the very start of a engagement or at the very end of the engagement assuming the team was able to hold their ground. Revert the re-work and balance from there, remove the invulnerability from ultimate resurrect and consider adding a short cast time or a smaller resurrect radius. Now that the power of resurrect as a ultimate has been reduced add a new ability that would allow her to be a bit more active and more engaging to play, whether it be a movement ability or an ability that would allow her to heal her teammates while actively using her pistol, a weak aura.
The rework was also meant to make it so mercy wasn't encouraged to hide for rez, now you're almost forced to. There's going to be times where you don't have someone shielding you. This rework was an absolute flop that ruined the game for most players for about 5 months.

The simplest solution is to bring her back to old resurrect and iterate from there. I couldn't give a damn about how you always go forward, sometimes... You have to go backwards to go forwards. Working with new ideas isn't always going to be the smartest approach, and there are currently multiple characters that have suffered horrible reworks that got nerfed or were just bad in the first place, and they have been stuck as is for forever as a result of this.
I still think they could have kept her old mass rez, but reduced what she could rez people back at, leaving them slightly nerfed for a temporary amount of time, but hopefully enough that they can still fight back under the assumption the attacking team ALSO has suffered damages.
02/17/2018 08:32 AMPosted by BenjaminWolf
Revert the re-work and balance from there


This here is the right path, I think. They had gold with Mercy 1.0, why throw it away when it can be salvaged? #RevertMercy
Agreed, they should go back to reverting the re-work and balance from that point. Things like needing LOS for resurrect (on Mercy 1.0) would've helped!

Sigh, I wonder how long it'll be before they also lock this thread... it seems they are just locking threads now and not even asking people to post in the megathread (based on the last few threads I've seen get locked). I guess they realise by now we won't stop posting new threads because we know the megathread is fairly pointless to post in :P. Don't give up though, keep posting.
Jeff is lying to himself about it being a success
how is she less engaging? her kit is objectively the same as it was before the rework? m1 is heal beam, m2 is damage boost, shift is guardian angel (which now has MORE flexibility), and now she actually has an E in the form of rez.

They made her ultimate far more engaging as now it is an enchanced version of her kit that grants her more mobility options and more surviveability.

You're telling me that by giving her a new E ability and an ult that gets value out of awareness and communication instead of a button press is...... less engaging?

I don't understand how people continue to complain about Valkyrie being "boring" when it's literally HER REGULAR KIT ultrafied? did you think her kit was boring before the rework? why did you play her than if so? was the mass rez REALLY so satisfying that you played a "boring heal and hide bot" so you could use it every once in a while?

Valkyrie is an amazing tempo ultimate and very difficult to get maximum value out of. you gotta be good at mercy to make Valkyrie useful in a team fight otherwise you'll chainheal like 2 targets while the enemy team guns you down.

The arguments against the rework make literally 0 sense. I PLAY MERCY. she's my second most played hero.
and I LOVE this rework, she's much more fun now. it was definitely a success
I think it would be neat to see her able to boost the Resurrect ability recovery time by absorbing the Souls(?) of any allies she comes across.

Example: When Resurrect is on its Cooldown you can "Absorb" an fallen ally's Soul with the same ability key, which would reduce the cooldown on Resurrect by 8-10 seconds or something. Ups her tempo and would give Mercy players a bit more to do during the late-fight where Mercy is pretty much praying that her Tank doesn't get obliterated or bail. Doesn't give her an insane edge early in an engagement either.
02/17/2018 05:30 PMPosted by Polyrhythm
how is she less engaging? her kit is objectively the same as it was before the rework? m1 is heal beam, m2 is damage boost, shift is guardian angel (which now has MORE flexibility), and now she actually has an E in the form of rez.

They made her ultimate far more engaging as now it is an enchanced version of her kit that grants her more mobility options and more surviveability.

You're telling me that by giving her a new E ability and an ult that gets value out of awareness and communication instead of a button press is...... less engaging?

I don't understand how people continue to complain about Valkyrie being "boring" when it's literally HER REGULAR KIT ultrafied? did you think her kit was boring before the rework? why did you play her than if so? was the mass rez REALLY so satisfying that you played a "boring heal and hide bot" so you could use it every once in a while?

Valkyrie is an amazing tempo ultimate and very difficult to get maximum value out of. you gotta be good at mercy to make Valkyrie useful in a team fight otherwise you'll chainheal like 2 targets while the enemy team guns you down.

The arguments against the rework make literally 0 sense. I PLAY MERCY. she's my second most played hero.
and I LOVE this rework, she's much more fun now. it was definitely a success


It's less engaging because her ultimate ability is her standard abilities but a tiny bit better, her ultimate enables her to hide further away from her team than ever before while still being able to heal or boost. How is that more engaging?

Her old ultimate ability had a high impact. Her current ultimate lacks that impact, it is a low impact ultimate that can't really counter anything in the game.

The skill ceiling has been lowered dramatically, the skill floor and skill ceiling are the same, it makes it nearly impossible to distinguish a good mercy from a bad mercy. Resurrect is basically useless in its current form.
Mercy is no longer enjoyable to play. Restore fun to her play style. Revert her, if necessary. How she is now is not acceptable.
02/17/2018 05:30 PMPosted by Polyrhythm
how is she less engaging? her kit is objectively the same as it was before the rework? m1 is heal beam, m2 is damage boost, shift is guardian angel (which now has MORE flexibility), and now she actually has an E in the form of rez.

They made her ultimate far more engaging as now it is an enchanced version of her kit that grants her more mobility options and more surviveability.

You're telling me that by giving her a new E ability and an ult that gets value out of awareness and communication instead of a button press is...... less engaging?

I don't understand how people continue to complain about Valkyrie being "boring" when it's literally HER REGULAR KIT ultrafied? did you think her kit was boring before the rework? why did you play her than if so? was the mass rez REALLY so satisfying that you played a "boring heal and hide bot" so you could use it every once in a while?

Valkyrie is an amazing tempo ultimate and very difficult to get maximum value out of. you gotta be good at mercy to make Valkyrie useful in a team fight otherwise you'll chainheal like 2 targets while the enemy team guns you down.

The arguments against the rework make literally 0 sense. I PLAY MERCY. she's my second most played hero.
and I LOVE this rework, she's much more fun now. it was definitely a success
I posted this in the mega thread:
Mercy has a fun base kit (rez on E being debatable — I personally want it removed as a regular ability). I’m sure we all can agree on that. But as Mercy is now, she simply exists for the rest of the team. And it’s perfectly fine that her sole focus is healing — it’s why I’ve enjoyed playing her so much. But Mercy only exists to allow others to look good and make big plays. There is no longer a buildup to this epic moment where Mercy has the opportunity to turn the tide. The “power” of Valkyrie is so watered down because it lasts for 15 seconds. It can’t counter ults. There is no “Wow, look at what Mercy did!” anymore. Why can’t we have a moment to be awesome?

Rez used to be able to do these things. Heck, even the two instant rezzes (if you saved your one on E) were worth more than what we have now.

As she is currently, she really is just a walking health pack. Mercy exists solely for the convenience of everyone else, not having anything super cool to look forward to doing, unlike the rest of the entire roster.

***

Also, I don’t see how you doing less, deciding less, contributing less, and having no moments to shine fun at all. I don’t believe you could find her more fun now than before for one second, GA changes aside (those are loved universally).
02/17/2018 06:07 PMPosted by WildElements
02/17/2018 05:30 PMPosted by Polyrhythm
how is she less engaging? her kit is objectively the same as it was before the rework? m1 is heal beam, m2 is damage boost, shift is guardian angel (which now has MORE flexibility), and now she actually has an E in the form of rez.

They made her ultimate far more engaging as now it is an enchanced version of her kit that grants her more mobility options and more surviveability.

You're telling me that by giving her a new E ability and an ult that gets value out of awareness and communication instead of a button press is...... less engaging?

I don't understand how people continue to complain about Valkyrie being "boring" when it's literally HER REGULAR KIT ultrafied? did you think her kit was boring before the rework? why did you play her than if so? was the mass rez REALLY so satisfying that you played a "boring heal and hide bot" so you could use it every once in a while?

Valkyrie is an amazing tempo ultimate and very difficult to get maximum value out of. you gotta be good at mercy to make Valkyrie useful in a team fight otherwise you'll chainheal like 2 targets while the enemy team guns you down.

The arguments against the rework make literally 0 sense. I PLAY MERCY. she's my second most played hero.
and I LOVE this rework, she's much more fun now. it was definitely a success
I posted this in the mega thread:
Mercy has a fun base kit (rez on E being debatable — I personally want it removed as a regular ability). I’m sure we all can agree on that. But as Mercy is now, she simply exists for the rest of the team. And it’s perfectly fine that her sole focus is healing — it’s why I’ve enjoyed playing her so much. But Mercy only exists to allow others to look good and make big plays. There is no longer a buildup to this epic moment where Mercy has the opportunity to turn the tide. The “power” of Valkyrie is so watered down because it lasts for 15 seconds. It can’t counter ults. There is no “Wow, look at what Mercy did!” anymore. Why can’t we have a moment to be awesome?

Rez used to be able to do these things. Heck, even the two instant rezzes (if you saved your one on E) were worth more than what we have now.

As she is currently, she really is just a walking health pack. Mercy exists solely for the convenience of everyone else, not having anything super cool to look forward to doing, unlike the rest of the entire roster.

***

Also, I don’t see how you doing less, deciding less, contributing less, and having no moments to shine fun at all. I don’t believe you could find her more fun now than before for one second, GA changes aside (those are loved universally).

The part about Valkyrie being watered down is so accurate. That it feels like it's an ABILITY that is in the ultimate slot, and to make it more like an "ultimate" it's very long. Whereas her Resurect is very impactful and bringing back someone is great, but it's too strong of an ability that they made it really punishable you can barely get them off also it's on the longest cooldown ability in the game, don't you think that if this ability has been nerfed so hard that maybe it isn't fit to be an ability? I would be fine if they watered down Valkyrie some more and gave it to Mercy as her ability and brought back Mass Resurrect with tweaks. Someone posted the best solution to Mercy's kit but it was quickly shut down because it got a lot of popularity.

Valkyrie would be an effective E ability because it can be used situational. Whether you wanted to engage with Damage Boost use it for some extra heal power or go battle Mercy it’s better off as an ability. 5 seconds active 20 second cool down.
- Unlimited ammo for the Battle Mercy Moths
- Initial Beam target gains full benefit of Mercy’s staff
- Chain healing from initial target gets half the amount. Gives Mercy players some Beam prioritization.
- Beam range reduced from 30M to 20M
- No uninterrupted passive healing
- GA range increase still kept
- Speed on Live is perfect for the ability

GA momentum buff “bunny hop” kept.

Resurrect becomes ultimate
- Ultimate can Resurrect upto 5 people
- Allies need to be in LOS of Mercy in order to cast Resurrect
- Blockable by barriers
- 15M radius from Mercy's position
- 1 - 1.5 second cast time. The time it takes to say “Heroes Never Die”
- After cast of Resurrect uninterrupted passive healing will be activated for 5 seconds/can be Invulnerability/can be Damage Reduction/can also be Health Restored
- Increasing the point amount needed in order to gain Resurrect as an ultimate would also compensate for the increased healing and damage boosting from her ultimate.

The hero is fixed/diverse/impactful/engaging and FUN.

Here me out while I explain why I think she should be this way.

Toning down Valkyrie into an ability would best fit Mercy. Having many different options to use her ability, whether that be defensively (Healing), Offensively (Damage Boosting), Reactively (DPS Mercy), gives the player flexibility in her kit. More options means more plays means a fun character. Currently live Valkyrie you have this option but it gets boring real fast just because the ultimate is very long and it doesn't have a real impact to an ultimate fight. Usually the team will get bulldozed by multiple ultimates even if Mercy has the healing beam on her team.

I know you don't want Valkyrie to directly buff Resurrect we can see that by the latest nerfs, or we bring back the horror of Mercy 2.0. So having them independent of each other is what the character needs, as you can see by Live version of Mercy she's pretty balanced that way where Resurrect doesn't correlate with Valkyrie, (But if Resurrect was used during Valkyrie she has the ability to fly while Resurrecting) so they are independent of each other but using them together can buff each other.

If we look at the proposed argument about having the initial beam target have Full healing/Damage Boosting, and the surrounding chain healing will get half doing the math it would look something like this.
Initial Beam Target Healing:
60HPS * 5 Seconds of Valkyrie = 300HP (That's on par with Moira)
Surrounding Beam Target:
30 HPS * 5 Seconds of Valkyrie = 150HP (That's on par with Zenyatta)
So she wouldn't necessarily be broken. It would boost her output of Healing (Which she is the Main Healer of Overwatch). That being said... Mercy switches between Healing and Damage Boosting so you would never get that full amount of healing anyways.

So now let's look at the other parts to Valkyrie I proposed.
The beam target M range reduced:
- Mercy wouldn't be able to fly into the skybox and be unkillable
- Would bring back the momentum Mercy players loved flying from one hero to the next.
- Having the range increased by only 50% more will force players to utilize GA and the momentum she gets from pushing spacebar more to avoid shots.
The uninterrupted passive regen
- This is the thing players have been complaining about. It makes her unkillable especially since shots barely do damage from that far in the sky, and the regen makes it nearly impossible for her to be killed.
- Mercy would be able to be shot down in Valkyrie, forcing Mercy players to be smarter with positioning and aware of targets she can use GA too.
The shorter active time:
- The problem with Valkyrie is that it is LONG and BORING
- Valkyrie does bring a new dynamic to her kit which is cool and the ability for Mercy to contribute to a teamfight, which is what she was lacking is good for her.
- Having it on a shorter duration like 5 seconds and up every 20 seconds will allow players to be flexible on when they should use it and how they use it.
- You won't get bored because you will be more active during the fight and since the passive regen and the nerf to beam range you will need to be more proactive with positioning and who you target with your beam.

This will make Valkyrie more engaging and fun for the hero. Keeping the extended GA range and free flight, would benefit Mercy players positioning wise and let's Mercy be independent as well as team reliant.

The GA momentum buff "bunny hop" should stay since it's very fun to use.

For the Resurrect ultimate this is why I proposed what I did:
Line of Sight:
- This counters the Hide and Seek Mercy game completely
Blockable by Barriers:
- It would work just like any other DPS ultimate, if you are erasing kills it should act the same way as getting them, and her support ultimate counterparts are blocked by shielding so Mercy shouldn't be an exception since it is pretty powerful if you pull it off (with the exception of Ana, Moira and Symm) like Eeveea said on his stream "Mercy is a ball of exceptions" so let's try and avoid that.
- DPS can't complain that it is unfair especially since it would work the same way as getting kills.
Cast time:
- This is understandable, DPS should have a way of countering it before it gets pulled off. Just like you have a chance to counter a DPS ultimate before it gets pulled off.
- The cast time wouldn't be awful if it wasn't attached with a slow
- Old Resurrect felt like it didn't have a cast time, but if it went something like Lucio where it was like.
- Mercy player pushes Q --> Voiceline --> (1 second) --> Resurrect
- Lucio player pushes Q --> Voiceline --> (1 second) --> Sound Barrier
It would become a lot more fair to every player.
Passive Regen upon casting:
- Players hated her being invulnerable, but if she had the uninterrupted passive for 5 seconds after casting her ultimate, she could still be killed, it would just be harder for them to do it. Mercy is punished because she needs to wait for her team to come back so in the meantime while she is waiting she should be compensated with the uninterrupted passive regen to stay alive.
- I do however think the invulnerability isn't that bad for her. That it wouldn't be much of a problem seeing as the above nerfs would effect her survivability so she could be rewarded with a surviving tool.

Having it this way would bring the impact Mercy is lacking. It would make pulling off a Resurrect more fulfilling since u can get more than 1 person. It would be impossible to use if Mercy players weren't actively in the fight alongside her team.

Valkyrie on the other hand can be used in many different situations making it really diverse and fun to use. An ability should follow the same format as what I described.

Let's take a look at Zarya:
- Bubble can be used aggressively to engage, it can be used defensively to disengage and reactively to defend herself when she gets surprised or even stuck with a Tracer bomb.

Let's take a look at Ana:
- Sleep Dart can be used offensively if it lands on a target, it can be used Defensively to sleep a flanker hunting her down, or reactively to shut down an ultimate.

If it follows that format it will make for a good ability, and Valkyrie can become that perfect ability for Mercy and will help her become more teamfight focused.

Resurrect needs to go back to an ultimate but it needs to have some penalties attached to it. Something that it was lacking before Ie. LOS requirement and Blockable by Barriers. It wouldn't feel great if McCree was able to shoot you through a reinhardt barrier during his ultimate would it? So we need to take into perspective the frustrations that the enemy team faces when Resurrect is used. Making the ability more skill oriented would increase the skill floor of the character and increasing the amount of points needed to gain Resurrect as an ultimate.

This is how I have been envisioning Mercy ever since her rework was announced.

I will do anything to get the hero that I fell in love with back and balanced. Mercy was the main reason I fell in love with this game and the sole reason why I still continue playing the game. Some Quality of Life changes to Mass Resurrect and an ability that could function in multiple ways is what Mercy needed to make the hero balanced and fun.

First of all, I love this. I LOVE that people still are trying to work so hard for Mercy 1.0. I am in the same boat as you, I fell in love with Mercy 1.0. She was such a fun hero to me, I loved it. I was excited Mercy was going to be able to fly in her rework because I always thought she should be able to since she has wings lol. At this point I am willing to do just about anything for Mercy 1.0, and what I mean by that is I just want the old mass rez, it was so fun to play with and it just felt good in general getting that 5 man rez. Which did not happen as frequently as people like to say it did. I think the way you described her mass rez being like Lucio ult, was perfect. With the healing for 5 seconds or maybe damage mitigation either or would be really good for her. I think I said above that I had always thought she should have another ability, specifically making her ably to fly. The way you described Valkyrie as a basic ability sounded just the way I wanted her flying ability to be like and more. I just wanted to be able to fly honestly lol.. Anyways great job!! I hope someone from Blizzard sees this.
It's honestly the most arrogant thing I've ever seen, the claims that this rework for Mercy was a "success". Yes, let's lessen the impact of Rez by making it a cooldown ability so she can use it more often. ._.
This is the best fix to Mercy we could ever have. It covers all the counter play required plus eliminates the hiding exploit. It also keeps Valkyrie in her kit without sacrificing Mass Res.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20762006070#post-1
02/17/2018 09:36 AMPosted by BoopBot
I still think they could have kept her old mass rez, but reduced what she could rez people back at, leaving them slightly nerfed for a temporary amount of time, but hopefully enough that they can still fight back under the assumption the attacking team ALSO has suffered damages.

The reason that specific nerf to mass rez wouldn't work is that you'd essentially give Mercy / the secondary healer free ult charge, because they'd immediately have to top up the people revived.

If you're going to nerf mass rez by affecting the revived targets, I'd think about doing a short CD before abilities can be used. Maybe 2 secs.
02/17/2018 05:30 PMPosted by Polyrhythm
how is she less engaging? her kit is objectively the same as it was before the rework? m1 is heal beam, m2 is damage boost, shift is guardian angel (which now has MORE flexibility), and now she actually has an E in the form of rez.

They made her ultimate far more engaging as now it is an enchanced version of her kit that grants her more mobility options and more surviveability.

You're telling me that by giving her a new E ability and an ult that gets value out of awareness and communication instead of a button press is...... less engaging?

I don't understand how people continue to complain about Valkyrie being "boring" when it's literally HER REGULAR KIT ultrafied? did you think her kit was boring before the rework? why did you play her than if so? was the mass rez REALLY so satisfying that you played a "boring heal and hide bot" so you could use it every once in a while?

Valkyrie is an amazing tempo ultimate and very difficult to get maximum value out of. you gotta be good at mercy to make Valkyrie useful in a team fight otherwise you'll chainheal like 2 targets while the enemy team guns you down.

The arguments against the rework make literally 0 sense. I PLAY MERCY. she's my second most played hero.
and I LOVE this rework, she's much more fun now. it was definitely a success
because they just want to heal not and feel like they are doing something when they get a 5 man res off. She's a complete improvement over old mercy with a different ult and less res utility
Fun is subjective. I find her incredibly more fun than Old Mercy. But I do wish they would add something like this to her kit:

Devs, please read this! It's actual feedback for the current state of Mercy, a suggestion on how to make her feel more fun without making her too powerful or adding anything new to her kit!

Since we aren't going to be reverting Mercy, can we please give her a new "ability" on her "Reload" button since she doesn't use it with her staff? Like how you experimented with giving Hanzo an ability on his reload button?

Like, when she presses "R/Reload" whilst using her staff, it becomes supercharged for 3-4 seconds, gaining heightened healing/damage boost (60HPS->80HPS ; 30% damage boost -> 35%) with a cooldown of say...10-12 seconds?

It would make her more multi-dimensional and add another level of skill and fun-factor, without straying from her standard beam gameplay and not feeling clunky. It wouldn't require replacing or altering any other abilites, and would make Mercy feel a lot more fun and interesting in my opinion. The animation could look different depending on the beam; maybe her heal beam glows brighter, and her damage beam pulses with electricity?

Please, please consider this! If you're even reading this thread, that is.

02/19/2018 11:32 AMPosted by SirRocknRyan
Fun is subjective. I find her incredibly more fun than Old Mercy. But I do wish they would add something like this to her kit:

[quote]Devs, please read this! It's actual feedback for the current state of Mercy, a suggestion on how to make her feel more fun without making her too powerful or adding anything new to her kit!

Since we aren't going to be reverting Mercy, can we please give her a new "ability" on her "Reload" button since she doesn't use it with her staff? Like how you experimented with giving Hanzo an ability on his reload button?

Like, when she presses "R/Reload" whilst using her staff, it becomes supercharged for 3-4 seconds, gaining heightened healing/damage boost (60HPS->80HPS ; 30% damage boost -> 35%) with a cooldown of say...10-12 seconds?

It would make her more multi-dimensional and add another level of skill and fun-factor, without straying from her standard beam gameplay and not feeling clunky. It wouldn't require replacing or altering any other abilites, and would make Mercy feel a lot more fun and interesting in my opinion. The animation could look different depending on the beam; maybe her heal beam glows brighter, and her damage beam pulses with electricity?

Please, please consider this! If you're even reading this thread, that is.



This is a interesting ability that they could have added to her original kit. They could have removed her invulnerability during her ultimate. This would lower the power of her ultimate. This would have allowed them to add an ability like this, either a overcharge to her healing and damage boost or to her own regeneration passive.

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