" you are at the SR you belong" fallacy

Competitive Discussion
1 2 3 11 Next
I read it often in this forum, whenever some " low rank" like me posts about how the sr system is screwing us over. "You are at the SR you belong", "Stop blaming others" ,"There's no such thing as bad luck", "Focus on yourself","If you're there you're doing something wrong".

Following these sayings, I'm the only one responsible for my losses. I cannot blame anyone , because throwers/leavers/ smurfs are not why I lose.

But you are forgetting that overwatch is a team game. TEAM. Meaning one player cannot be the difference, unless that player is really good. Your rank is more determined by how well your team works together than by your sole performance.

How am I at the SR i belong to, when I climb 1k when I'm in a good team and drop down 1k when I solo queue. What's that? The team was carrying? Wait, I thought you sr was solely determined by your skill.... so maybe it isn't after all....

Are you going to tell me that toxic players/onetricks/throwers/leavers/smurfs are just a product of my imagination? That there's no such thing as bad luck when I play against or with these people 5 times in a row?

Are you going to tell me I belong where I am, when i carry so hard my mouse clicks don't work properly anymore. When i have all my hours on reinhardt and freaking moira when i'm a reaper main?
When I play hours on end trying to get some sens einto people's head until I end up with 5 other people, and we're so good we decide to stick together and win every game?

The sr system SHOULD be an accurate representation of where you belong but it isn't . It's flawed and it's still getting fixed, and we're just talking about the problems we encounter at our rank.

So don't come in those thread, you who only play with you team and never solo queue, saying that "You belong where you are".
Because if we're making a thread about what we notice, about what we think would make our experience better , and if so many people are doing it that it's literally what you see everyday, it means there is an actual problem.

And stop thinking bronze/silver players don't know what they're doing. They do. I do. I know my flaws and I know I don't always play well. And when i don't I blame myself, but genuinely, when I have a normal team, I win.

also please, saying that " if you're there you must be doing something wrong" no one is perfect. It's not becaus eyou're doing 1 thign wrong that your a re stuck in bronze. Becaus ethen it would mean everyone above plays perfectly yet are not gm, which makes no sense
02/18/2018 10:10 AMPosted by Lightwaves
I read it often in this forum, whenever some " low rank" like me posts about how the sr system is screwing us over. "You are at the SR you belong", "Stop blaming others" ,"There's no such thing as bad luck", "Focus on yourself","If you're there you're doing something wrong".
So, ask yourself, what are you doing that is keeping you at the "SR that you belong."

You do realize that there are "high rank" players right? They don't have the same problems that you have. That's why you hear these responses.

Figure out what they are doing right, what you are doing wrong, and you will climb too!
02/18/2018 10:14 AMPosted by Applesoup
02/18/2018 10:10 AMPosted by Lightwaves
I read it often in this forum, whenever some " low rank" like me posts about how the sr system is screwing us over. "You are at the SR you belong", "Stop blaming others" ,"There's no such thing as bad luck", "Focus on yourself","If you're there you're doing something wrong".


Figure out what they are doing right, what you are doing wrong, and you will climb too!


They probably play in teams, and I'm pretty sure you don't get that many smurfs in high rank because how do you smurf in high rank? I'm pretty sure there's way less trolls as well, and people in your team know how to play which I'm pretty sure contributes a lot. Also communications is probably there too, unlike here where it seems to have gone on a forever vacation

OH YEAH I SEE WHTA IM DOING WRONG. Let me fix it so, let's start by bying a brain to everyone, as well as a mic, and also miraculously put game sense and awareness as well as team comps and trategies in everyone brains. And then I just ahve to find 5 people to play with me.

Excuse me I didn't realise it was this simple
02/18/2018 10:17 AMPosted by Lightwaves
They probably play in teams, and I'm pretty sure you don't get that many smurfs in high rank because how do you smurf in high rank? I'm pretty sure there's way less trolls as well, and people in your team know how to play which I'm pretty sure contributes a lot. Also communications is probably there too, unlike here where it seems to have gone on a forever vacation
Many players have gone from low ranks to high ranks playing solo queue. In fact, most players at the higher ranks started at lower ranks.

Point being, the system isn't keeping everyone down. Many players rank higher. That's why you get so many responses saying, "you're just at the rank that you belong at."

If you want to improve, there are many things you can do. I won't get into them, but I will tell you that if you improve, you will rank up.
02/18/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Applesoup
02/18/2018 10:17 AMPosted by Lightwaves
They probably play in teams, and I'm pretty sure you don't get that many smurfs in high rank because how do you smurf in high rank? I'm pretty sure there's way less trolls as well, and people in your team know how to play which I'm pretty sure contributes a lot. Also communications is probably there too, unlike here where it seems to have gone on a forever vacation
Many players have gone from low ranks to high ranks playing solo queue. In fact, most players at the higher ranks started at lower ranks.

Point being, the system isn't keeping everyone down. Many players rank higher. That's why you get so many responses saying, "you're just at the rank that you belong at."

If you want to improve, there are many things you can do. I won't get into them, but I will tell you that if you improve, you will rank up.


You clearly only read the first line I wrote. Most people in high rank started in s1 , s2, s3 when people were still new at the game
Matchmaking is a bad joke lottery. Who never wins in lotteries, won't climb the ladder. Lightwaves I feel you mate.
02/18/2018 10:29 AMPosted by Lightwaves
<span class="truncated">...</span>Many players have gone from low ranks to high ranks playing solo queue. In fact, most players at the higher ranks started at lower ranks.

Point being, the system isn't keeping everyone down. Many players rank higher. That's why you get so many responses saying, "you're just at the rank that you belong at."

If you want to improve, there are many things you can do. I won't get into them, but I will tell you that if you improve, you will rank up.


You clearly only read the first line I wrote. Most people in high rank started in s1 , s2, s3 when people were still new at the game


So because they started early they don't deserve their rank because everyone was new? This logic doesn't make sense. I've seen many a gold border in lower ranks aswell who've been around since beta, not everyone learns from their mistakes.

I've been playing since before comp was around and I started at around gold. Through solo que and rare pairings with friends who were usually lower than myself that I just happened to meet in my comp games I managed to get up to masters a few times but comfortably sit in mid-high diamond (Except when I take a break and decay.. Cuz woo this community recently man) I understand what you're saying about bad luck and all that but you cannot sit here and say that that is the sole reason you are stuck in your rank or else all of us would be stuck. I get !@#$ty games all the time, yet I still manage to climb going solo. And yes, there are plenty of Smurfs in diamond masters. Gm tracers tend to be rather potent in these areas, and rather frustrating to get rolled by.

My point is, i get you get bad games, and we all run into super bad loss streaks, but at some point you do have to own up to the fact thay some of the blame lies on you. It is a team game, and you are also part of that team no matter how well you think you are doing. You sound like you go in with a rather condescending view of your team every game, which does not lead to good teamwork. I know it sounds cheesy, but positivity wins games. Going in with a negative mindset is just gonna throw you off your game and make you focus more on the accuracy of your team mates than your own.

I didn't look at your profile yet, i dont know you personally. This is just my observation from your post and tone from your post. Take everything with a grain of salt.
02/18/2018 10:14 AMPosted by Applesoup
02/18/2018 10:10 AMPosted by Lightwaves
I read it often in this forum, whenever some " low rank" like me posts about how the sr system is screwing us over. "You are at the SR you belong", "Stop blaming others" ,"There's no such thing as bad luck", "Focus on yourself","If you're there you're doing something wrong".
So, ask yourself, what are you doing that is keeping you at the "SR that you belong."

You do realize that there are "high rank" players right? They don't have the same problems that you have. That's why you hear these responses.

Figure out what they are doing right, what you are doing wrong, and you will climb too!


I’ll tell you what I’ve done. I used to main tank and fill and just kept dropping. Today I played several games autolocking Reaper and already gained 200 SR. I guess I need to be the bad guy and autolock DPS in order to climb.

I’ll post an update on where my rank is at the end of this week.
02/18/2018 10:29 AMPosted by Lightwaves
Most people in high rank started in s1 , s2, s3 when people were still new at the game
Well, even if that's true, all that tells me is that players at the higher ranks have been playing this game much longer than you. Which stands to reason, since they have so much more experience, they are better than you. Another reason to think that you are just at the rank that you belong at.
There is no excuse to be in bronze. Any bronze match can be solo carried by low gold player; and low gold is average skill level at best.
02/18/2018 11:18 AMPosted by EvilMercy
There is no excuse to be in bronze. Any bronze match can be solo carried by low gold player; and low gold is average skill level at best.
So if you have 0 experience with a multiplayer shooter on pc then you should automatically be at gold or whatever. That's what bronze is, the bottom for people who have no experience and are trying to develop that experience. Play a game like osu! and see how well you do on the maps that aren't even that difficult for experienced players. Everyone starts out terrible.
02/18/2018 10:14 AMPosted by Applesoup
02/18/2018 10:10 AMPosted by Lightwaves
I read it often in this forum, whenever some " low rank" like me posts about how the sr system is screwing us over. "You are at the SR you belong", "Stop blaming others" ,"There's no such thing as bad luck", "Focus on yourself","If you're there you're doing something wrong".
So, ask yourself, what are you doing that is keeping you at the "SR that you belong."

You do realize that there are "high rank" players right? They don't have the same problems that you have. That's why you hear these responses.

Figure out what they are doing right, what you are doing wrong, and you will climb too!
This is a pretty inaccurate statement.

I have multiple accounts that range from bronze to diamond, and each one of them placed completely different, and climbed completely different. I played all season on this account (that I got on sale for Christmas), and just hit gold yesterday after struggling for 9 hours yesterday while duo queue'd with a Master smurf and he wanted to give up multiple times because we kept getting throwers and trolls that were causing us to lose repeatedly.

On other accounts I place platinum and hit diamond within 48 hours. And then other times I place bronze or silver. It really makes zero sense at all.

https://i.imgur.com/d18fw3i.png

https://i.imgur.com/qbWsxtR.png

This rating system is incredibly flawed, and needs to be completely revamped.
02/18/2018 10:10 AMPosted by Lightwaves
Meaning one player cannot be the difference, unless that player is really good.


So be really good and rank up? I don't understand why that's a problem.
You can't control your teammates or your enemies. So work on what you can change, yourself. See what you are doing wrong adjust so you stop making those mistakes and improve from there.
02/18/2018 11:27 AMPosted by TurningDrop
02/18/2018 11:18 AMPosted by EvilMercy
There is no excuse to be in bronze. Any bronze match can be solo carried by low gold player; and low gold is average skill level at best.
So if you have 0 experience with a multiplayer shooter on pc then you should automatically be at gold or whatever. That's what bronze is, the bottom for people who have no experience and are trying to develop that experience. Play a game like osu! and see how well you do on the maps that aren't even that difficult for experienced players. Everyone starts out terrible.


The point of this thread and this comment was not that new players can't get out of bronze. It's people claiming that the system keeps them there even after having played for a while. Read the entire form before you respond with nonsense.. of course you start low in a new game. But there is no reason to say that it is impossible to climb when many others can. Bad luck happens, but the one you are quoting is right. If you truly are not a bronze level player, bad luck or not your mmr should raise you up eventually.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

You clearly only read the first line I wrote. Most people in high rank started in s1 , s2, s3 when people were still new at the game


So because they started early they don't deserve their rank because everyone was new? This logic doesn't make sense. I've seen many a gold border in lower ranks aswell who've been around since beta, not everyone learns from their mistakes.



I'm not saying they don't deserve it, just that it's easier to climb when everyone is at your level. And I'm sure taking on gm smurfs is easier in diamond than it is in bronze.
I never got with a bad mindset, I alwasy encourage people. When they say theyre going to leave, I tell them that we can still win and we should try even with a leaver and that anything is possible but god damn being the only person who actually cares suck
02/18/2018 10:29 AMPosted by Lightwaves
Most people in high rank started in s1 , s2, s3 when people were still new at the game
Well, even if that's true, all that tells me is that players at the higher ranks have been playing this game much longer than you. Which stands to reason, since they have so much more experience, they are better than you. Another reason to think that you are just at the rank that you belong at.


Time doesn't equal skill, if you're unwilling of improving with the time spent.

You can play guitar for 10000 hours, but if it's that same dumb song with absolutely no variety and lack of advanced chords such as Barr F, you're just an amateur.

The same applies to this game.

Time spent :
1. Learning the maps.
2. Learning the heroes.
3. Adapting yourself to new and all situations.
4. Improving your ability of playing the heroes.
5. Improving your overall mechanical skill.

In Quickplay I played versus a Level 4500 guy, I kept killing him repetitively and he just kept doing the same nooby mistakes. Concerned, I checked his name up on google and found out he's a streamer - I checked the vodcast I beat him up and found out he's playing for the sake of playing and get X amount of hours on each hero, but he never gave his 100% effort. Naturally he was reported by me for poor teamwork, continuously feeding us ult charge and ruin the game for his team.

I, a player of level 250, could beat a level 4500 player with ease. Does that mean much? No. He could've been level 50000 with the same outcome.

My argument is simple; your personal skill is about your willingness and interest of improving and adapting.

02/18/2018 10:14 AMPosted by Applesoup
You do realize that there are "high rank" players right? They don't have the same problems that you have. That's why you hear these responses.


What about the hundreds and thousands of posts on the forums complaining about smurfs, gamethrowers, leavers, toxic players and et cetera?
Smurfs are not Bronze exclusive, and there's a lack of damage control for gamethrowers/leavers/toxic that can ball up easily into massive SR losses outside of your control.

The sr system SHOULD be an accurate representation of where you belong but it isn't . It's flawed and it's still getting fixed, and we're just talking about the problems we encounter at our rank.


I agree with the OP. At the moment, SR (Skill Rating) is too influenced by anything outside of your control. It should honestly just be your MMR.
02/18/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Voluer
02/18/2018 11:27 AMPosted by TurningDrop
...So if you have 0 experience with a multiplayer shooter on pc then you should automatically be at gold or whatever. That's what bronze is, the bottom for people who have no experience and are trying to develop that experience. Play a game like osu! and see how well you do on the maps that aren't even that difficult for experienced players. Everyone starts out terrible.


The point of this thread and this comment was not that new players can't get out of bronze. It's people claiming that the system keeps them there even after having played for a while. Read the entire form before you respond with nonsense.. of course you start low in a new game. But there is no reason to say that it is impossible to climb when many others can. Bad luck happens, but the one you are quoting is right. If you truly are not a bronze level player, bad luck or not your mmr should raise you up eventually.


you do climb, but it's really slow. I'm not saying younever get out of bronze, but if you want to get out , you have to watch when you play adn who you play with to avoid the bad people and have a chance.

And yeah this thred is about people pointing out the bad thing about matchmaking and getting yelled at by "pro" players
02/18/2018 11:27 AMPosted by Peng
On other accounts I place platinum and hit diamond within 48 hours. And then other times I place bronze or silver. It really makes zero sense at all.
Yeah, and I'm sure you play all those accounts the exact same way using the exact same characters, right? I mean, I know that's why I use multiple accounts. I have 3 accounts, all 1 trick pharahs. *rolls eyes*

Even just looking at your 2 examples..1 you tank/heal, the other is pure DPS.

It really makes no sense to you as to why they are different ranks? Okay..........
02/18/2018 11:27 AMPosted by Peng
02/18/2018 10:14 AMPosted by Applesoup
...So, ask yourself, what are you doing that is keeping you at the "SR that you belong."

You do realize that there are "high rank" players right? They don't have the same problems that you have. That's why you hear these responses.

Figure out what they are doing right, what you are doing wrong, and you will climb too!
This is a pretty inaccurate statement.

I have multiple accounts that range from bronze to diamond, and each one of them placed completely different, and climbed completely different. I played all season on this account (that I got on sale for Christmas), and just hit gold yesterday after struggling for 9 hours yesterday while duo queue'd with a Master smurf and he wanted to give up multiple times because we kept getting throwers and trolls that were causing us to lose repeatedly.

On other accounts I place platinum and hit diamond within 48 hours. And then other times I place bronze or silver. It really makes zero sense at all.

https://i.imgur.com/d18fw3i.png

https://i.imgur.com/qbWsxtR.png

This rating system is incredibly flawed, and needs to be completely revamped.


Thank you for posting this.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum