Moira: What is right and what is wrong

General Discussion
Hello guys!
I will try to cover here all aspects of moira. If I miss any spot, or you think something I said is wrong for whatever reason, please by all means care to elaborate with me.
I will start saying that I don't think moira needs a nerf but she could use one.
Here's why.
PD: Also, Tomorrow I will put this in the new forum. So i'll try to save every well constructed reply and add it in.

There are a lot of comps usefull in overwatch.
Dive comp, 2-2-2, quad tank?, 3-2-1 (jk)
Moira is, maybe, the one healer that works best with every comp. She has exceptional healing abilities.
However as we all are aware, what interest people the most is her ability to survive danger.
Fast mobility, softlock, regeneration+self healing. She is someone you don't want to be in the same room with. She must and will be the last to fall in a team if she is played right.
In lower SR she's unbeatable. In higher SR she is a threat, to say the less.
She is everything that it's need of a support, and must be left at that

Let the last statement be a pilar of this post. Every support can be designed to be hard to counter.
Lucio is the character with the best mobility. Ana has her sleep dart, mercy can fly away to a teammate for support. Symmetra has her hardlock and "turret zone". Zennyata... sorry Zenny, you aren't here.
And then comes moira, that combines those aspects. She can create her own "zone" and she can disengage at ludicrous speed (insert SpaceBalls meme here).
So on the "healer" aspect, she is perhaps the best support created so far. And this comes with the color note: nobody has ever complained about moira's healing factor.

Her only problem is that her kit KINDA allows her to be something she is not.

I'm a fan of supports being able to defend themselves. Whenever I play Ana or Mercy, and the oponents pick Winston, I find myself begging for someone to counter with reaper. Hell, sometimes I myself have to pick reaper to counter someone that is killing me (Low SR, Better have an extra dps than a support that is constantly getting electrocuted and giving ult charge away, best case scenario winston changes away and I get back to my sweet healing)

Back to Moira, her offensive abilities gives her a Proxy status. People who play Moira are subconsciously pushed to the offensive because her kit tells them to.
Her secondary fire is her mug to her coffee abstinence, which is her healing.
The sole "moira" idea is worked arround this. Take and Give. Give and Take.
Players are prompted into going offensive, and like the joker said, all it takes it's a little push.
And this is a big problem. Every one of the comps i've quoted before have healers.
I know pretty much everyone knows where i'm going now. If you have a quad tank or a 2 2 2, you have 2 healers. if suddenly your moira goes full offensive, then you are stuck in a 1-4-1 or 3-2-1 situation, and also puts her in danger. She will not be protected anymore. She will more than surely get damaged, or easily killed by a tank (or a dps with nice accuracy), all the while her team is, at best, getting half the health they need. and they NEED that health.
And remember that moira is prompted into doing this every second of the game, because 1. she needs to absorb enemies health to regenerate and 2. he's really easy to use.
The primary factors on this is her gigantic absorb range and her soft lock.
She locks on targets that are really far away in a way that they cannot escape unless they break sightline. This is honey to bears when it comes to attacking.

As I said before, moira does not need a nerf, but she coud use one.
Caps in use.
Remembering how symmetra, the other hardlocking support no one loves, is harder to escape her grasp than to fall into it. She has a 7 metter lock on range, and a 7.5 metter tether break, thus her zone is reduced to "enemies coming to her" and not "her pursuing enemies". Already seeing a connection?

I believe this same skill concept can be applied to Moira. Having an initial 15 metter lock on(which is still a lot) with a 20 metters lock-break will constraint people from going full-flanker. Yes, initially they will try, and they'll be punished for it, they'll be at dps'/tanks' mercy... after a while the community will have realized just how much risky it is for them to go offensive.
And yet, with initial 15 metters, her spot remains untouched.
Genji's and Tracer's Nightmare will not end, as they must get into her range if they try to flank her, and then cannot escape it.
She can be sniped, sure, but that's about the one way she is killed right now, other than suicide of course.

And yes, I know what everyone is thinking.
"A 15 metters lock-on with soflock means that at 16 metters lock will break if aim is not kept". Well that may look like a thing but it's not necessarily it. This can be easily work arround, and while I rather leave that work arround to devs, I can freely give an option: initial lock can not be lost if right click is mantained, whereas it doesn't damage unless aim is in the soft-lock range. I hope I made myself clear ha.

A penny for your thoughts!
Best wishes to you all.
A constructing downvote, ha
I stopped reading at "Moira is the one healer that works best in every comp". That's very untrue. She is really bad at healing flanker tanks, flankers or heroes like Widow. She is good in comps with little mobility so this is why she is very strong in trible/quad tank comps.

And to add this, no, players are not forced to play her like a dps. Her kit is much stronger when used for healing.

So I suggest you to play her more because most of the info here was false.
It was hard for me to keep reading past “Moira doesn’t need a nerf but could use one” but I skimmed through the rest and all I have to ask is: why?

Do you really think this is going to change anything? Moira is designed to do damage to refill her resource meter, that will never change. Some people go beyond that intended purpose and go full on DPS and that is not the way Moira is meant to be played, therefore they are a detriment to their team. Moira can be used as a damage dealer if and ONLY if she can confirm a kill, because her 1v1 capabilities are so strong.

If you’re out here trying to 1v1 tanks, you are bringing zero value to your team, and that’s that. Doing whatever you’re proposing isn’t going to do anything, and changing heroes when they don’t need to be is the last thing the developers should be doing. How about making threads on heroes that actually need to be changed, not Moira.
I disagree. I might not cover everything but I’ll do my best.
1. In your section about her “going full offensive” you seem to imply that in order to replenish her healing reserves she needs to flank or jump ahead of the team to get kills. She can replenish her healing from the backline, which is why the range on her biotic grasp is necessary.
2. Her biotic grasp isn’t the same as Symmetra’s main fire. If I recall correctly, Symmetra’s field of fire in the shape of a cone, whereas Moira’s in the shape of a cylinder. Moira may not require the same aim as Ana, Mcree, Widow, etc., but it DOES require aim. Her aiming hit box is closer to soldier’s than Symmetra’s.
3. The proper way to switch between dps and healing with Moira is in small bursts. Small bursts with healing, throw healing orb, dps enemies from a safe position (ex: behind a shield), rinse and repeat. NOT dumping all of your healing then running off to get kills.
4. She has many, many counters and it’s mostly a matter of catching me on cool down. As a Moira main, roadhog is a nightmare. Mcree is a close second. Sombra is also a pain (especially when her new buffs go live). Reaper can just walk towards me holding m1. You get the idea. It’s not hard to tell when she uses her abilities. Her fade is very audible and it’s pretty hard to not see an orb flying through the air.

I think that covers about everything I wanted to say. She’s still relatively new and, with every new hero or meta, the player base slowly adapts and learns ways to counter them. Moira is no different.
You’re essentially complaining about Moira being a DPS/Healer hybrid, yes, due to her design she is meant to play aggressive to regenerate her juice box, buuuuut, it’s up to the player to determine when she’s being over aggressive and when they’re putting themselves in danger and not doing their other half, healing.

You also talked about Symmetra, who is literally the worst hero in the game, and is very very held back by her own weapon in terms of buffs. Symmetra can’t chase kills because she doesn’t have the ability (mobility) to do so, and if she did she’d likely be “snap my neck pls” op. The only comparison between Moira and Symmetra is that they have beams, that’s it.

Lastly, hear this from me a former Tracer main, flankers need counters the fact Moira can hold her own against them isn’t an issue, not every support needs to get stomped on by flankers, in fact she’s designed not to.

also I don’t know why you pretended Zenyatta isn’t good
Hello my friend " Instant Downvote "
02/19/2018 07:20 AMPosted by VMajoris
It was hard for me to keep reading past “Moira doesn’t need a nerf but could use one” but I skimmed through the rest and all I have to ask is: why?

Do you really think this is going to change anything? Moira is designed to do damage to refill her resource meter, that will never change. Some people go beyond that intended purpose and go full on DPS and that is not the way Moira is meant to be played, therefore they are a detriment to their team. Moira can be used as a damage dealer if and ONLY if she can confirm a kill, because her 1v1 capabilities are so strong.

If you’re out here trying to 1v1 tanks, you are bringing zero value to your team, and that’s that. Doing whatever you’re proposing isn’t going to do anything, and changing heroes when they don’t need to be is the last thing the developers should be doing. How about making threads on heroes that actually need to be changed, not Moira.


Yessir you are totally right. I never said anything contrary to your statements.
What I mean is that with Moira's "Offensive capabilities" people are prompted (mind, PROMPTED, not Forced) to go full offense.
Yes, Moira needs to replenish, I know that, I never wanted to change that.
My subtle change is pointed at people trying to go full dps and wasting the "healer slot" they took, thus ruining up comps entirely.

Oh and about the "How about making threads on heroes that actually need to be changed, not Moira", check my profile before speaking. thanks.
And here I thought this was going to be a thread about Overwatch lore, and we were going to talk about Moiras view on right and wrong.

But no, its just another nerf Moira thread. How disappointing.
02/19/2018 07:24 AMPosted by Ghostly
You’re essentially complaining about Moira being a DPS/Healer hybrid, yes, due to her design she is meant to play aggressive to regenerate her juice box, buuuuut, it’s up to the player to determine when she’s being over aggressive and when they’re putting themselves in danger and not doing their other half, healing.


It is up to the player, yes. But Moira blindfolds a lot of people into thinking they can do it. I like a lot the way that moira performs, her desing may be the best done yet. The one problem with it, is that while it encourages people to go offensive, and gives them the feeling of safety, it also makes A lot of people forget that she is a support. and this is a big issue for every team, it's NOT OK to fill a support slot with a dps.
The proposed change is to discourage people from going FULL DPS, and the window for her absorbing health is still completely open (15 metters are still very high for a softlock, and it expands to 20 metters, not allowing the enemy to escape)

02/19/2018 07:24 AMPosted by Ghostly
You also talked about Symmetra, who is literally the worst hero in the game, and is very very held back by her own weapon in terms of buffs. Symmetra can’t chase kills because she doesn’t have the ability (mobility) to do so, and if she did she’d likely be “snap my neck pls” op. The only comparison between Moira and Symmetra is that they have beams, that’s it.

The comparison between moira and symmetra comes from the locking beam type. I only addressed the property of the "expanded radius" of sym's lock, which I think is the one thing Moira needs to prevent FULL DPS while not making her garbage.

02/19/2018 07:24 AMPosted by Ghostly
Lastly, hear this from me a former Tracer main, flankers need counters the fact Moira can hold her own against them isn’t an issue, not every support needs to get stomped on by flankers, in fact she’s designed not to.

Did I EVER said it was an issue? I think you didn't read the post correctly. Of course, I'm not surprised. With all the nonsense that is posted on the forums people tends to think every post complains about the same.
I will quote myself. "I'm a fan of supports being able to defend themselves. "

02/19/2018 07:24 AMPosted by Ghostly
also I don’t know why you pretended Zenyatta isn’t good

I never said nor pretended that.
02/19/2018 07:35 AMPosted by JellyandJam
And here I thought this was going to be a thread about Overwatch lore, and we were going to talk about Moiras view on right and wrong.

But no, its just another nerf Moira thread. How disappointing.


Here, have an upvote for no apparent reason.
02/19/2018 07:16 AMPosted by dostheboss
I stopped reading at "Moira is the one healer that works best in every comp".

Too bad for you, you missed the most important part.

02/19/2018 07:16 AMPosted by dostheboss
That's very untrue. She is really bad at healing flanker tanks, flankers or heroes like Widow. She is good in comps with little mobility so this is why she is very strong in trible/quad tank comps.

Point taken.

02/19/2018 07:16 AMPosted by dostheboss
And to add this, no, players are not forced to play her like a dps. Her kit is much stronger when used for healing.

Here your point is the same as mine. To bad people downvote very fast.
Moira excels at healing as I said, and her offensive kit is more circumstancial. People doesn't understand this and tend to go full dps because of her instalock and gigantic range. All my post was for people to get this point.
Sorry if anything else made people angry.
02/19/2018 07:33 AMPosted by ZekeShining
02/19/2018 07:20 AMPosted by VMajoris
It was hard for me to keep reading past “Moira doesn’t need a nerf but could use one” but I skimmed through the rest and all I have to ask is: why?

Do you really think this is going to change anything? Moira is designed to do damage to refill her resource meter, that will never change. Some people go beyond that intended purpose and go full on DPS and that is not the way Moira is meant to be played, therefore they are a detriment to their team. Moira can be used as a damage dealer if and ONLY if she can confirm a kill, because her 1v1 capabilities are so strong.

If you’re out here trying to 1v1 tanks, you are bringing zero value to your team, and that’s that. Doing whatever you’re proposing isn’t going to do anything, and changing heroes when they don’t need to be is the last thing the developers should be doing. How about making threads on heroes that actually need to be changed, not Moira.

Oh and about the "How about making threads on heroes that actually need to be changed, not Moira", check my profile before speaking. thanks.


My point still stands. You, and others that have comments about Moira, have no reason to make threads regarding her balance. Why? Because she doesn’t need any changes. What you are asking here goes against the fundamental mechanics of her play style. No thank you.
I completely agree with you.
I've tried to make similar threads but deleted them because I know these forums love to downvote Moira topics that aren't in line with theirs and that's fine.

But people keep pointing that you have to aim at people, but you literally just have to look in their general direction to perform the lock. No other way about it.
She has fantastic lock range and is great at finishing off enemies, but in my opinion it does a little bit too well and gives her a lot of leeway in terms of her DPS abilities.

She is a wonderful healer and I like to play her due to her accessible play, but I do think she gains a bit too much when compared to the other healers.

She has lifesteal.
She has lock on, not as crazy as symmetra, but a lock on nonetheless that most FPS users.
She can heal herself and others quite easily.
She can also boost her damage with her orb.
And she also gains an invisibility and invincibility escape.

She is amazing, but just a little too amazing when compared to other champions in general.

Sure she has the least amount of damage.
But she makes up for it by her ability to weave in and out of danger almost effortlessly when it comes to team fights and 1v1s at an effeciency that is sort of scary at times.
What is wrong: You can't see anything when she uses her ultimate.

But people keep pointing that you have to aim at people, but you literally just have to look in their general direction to perform the lock.
[...]
She has lock on, not as crazy as symmetra, but a lock on nonetheless that most FPS users.


Okay, question for you: Do you think that her ultimate is also lock on?

Fun fact, her ultimate's beam width is around the same as her biotic grasp, meaning targets she would hit with her ultimate would also be hit with her biotic grasp (besides range and penetration, of course).

Does that mean she doesn't have to aim with her ultimate?
The other thing people seem to forget about Moira is that her ult isn't all that impressive, she gets it quickly but it either tickles the opposing team for the most part or she uses it as a very ineffective defensive ult. It's not stopping any of the big DPS ults.
02/19/2018 08:43 AMPosted by FAC3theMUSIK
The other thing people seem to forget about Moira is that her ult isn't all that impressive, she gets it quickly but it either tickles the opposing team for the most part or she uses it as a very ineffective defensive ult. It's not stopping any of the big DPS ults.

Her Ult is fantastic if you have bad healers on the other team. Bye, bye squishies while I heal my tank and DPS. I think her Ult comes a bit too fast but it can be canceled quite easily.
Don't be one of those people, OP.
02/19/2018 08:51 AMPosted by Zeppelin87
02/19/2018 08:43 AMPosted by FAC3theMUSIK
The other thing people seem to forget about Moira is that her ult isn't all that impressive, she gets it quickly but it either tickles the opposing team for the most part or she uses it as a very ineffective defensive ult. It's not stopping any of the big DPS ults.

Her Ult is fantastic if you have bad healers on the other team. Bye, bye squishies while I heal my tank and DPS. I think her Ult comes a bit too fast but it can be canceled quite easily.


I mean, maybe if the other team is solo healing with Zen?

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