SR Carry Over

Competitive Discussion
Anyone else really getting sick of their SR carrying over from one season to another?
no
Why would you not want that?

Are you expecting to win all 10 matches and end up in GM?

The reality would be more like you lose the majority and end up in Bronze.

Careful what you wish for.
no lol, in the three day break from the seasons i really dont think someone is gonna go from plat to top 500
Statistically, only 7 of 28 characters in the entire game have win rates over 50% according to:
https://masteroverwatch.com/heroes/pc/global/mode/ranked

This means that no matter what rank you are, you're most likely to do nothing but stay in that rank or drop a little bit. This is likely due to the match making algorithm. Factor in a leaver or two and climbing the ranks can be statistically impossible.

There is no reason people should need to buy another copy of the game, just to have a chance at fresh placements cause the system is rigged.
02/17/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Glonex
Statistically, only 7 of 28 characters in the entire game have win rates over 50% according to:
https://masteroverwatch.com/heroes/pc/global/mode/ranked

This means that no matter what rank you are, you're most likely to do nothing but stay in that rank or drop a little bit. This is likely due to the match making algorithm. Factor in a leaver or two and climbing the ranks can be statistically impossible.

There is no reason people should need to buy another copy of the game, just to have a chance at fresh placements cause the system is rigged.

you have no idea how statistics work. I like how you say "can be" because you know someone will come along and say, hah i climbed ur just bad...which is true. Go look at the win rate by hero for players in gm and guess what, they are all significantly over 50 percent! U know why? probably not..
02/17/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Glonex
Statistically, only 7 of 28 characters in the entire game have win rates over 50% according to:
https://masteroverwatch.com/heroes/pc/global/mode/ranked

This means that no matter what rank you are, you're most likely to do nothing but stay in that rank or drop a little bit. This is likely due to the match making algorithm. Factor in a leaver or two and climbing the ranks can be statistically impossible.

There is no reason people should need to buy another copy of the game, just to have a chance at fresh placements cause the system is rigged.


1. Masteroverwatch only contains a sample of the entire Overwatch player base. There will be a margin for error that would come into account. Since the sample is not controlled it would be impossible to determine what the margin for error would be and thus those stats are very unreliable.

2. The overall win rates don't account for many factors like what the win rates are at each level of play. Characters with higher skill caps may have lower win rates at lower levels but much more average win rates at the higher level. However because there are less players at the higher level that might not be enough to offset the lower rates from the lower tiers. There would need to be a breakdown for each tier to be more accurate.

3. An overall win rate means nothing if you are playing the character at a level well beyond your current rank. Mcree has a lower win rate but if a GM player who mains Mcree went to bronze and played him do you think they would have a sub 50% win rate because your statistics dictate that Mcree is a sub optimal pick?

Let me tell you this. Meta information like this does not matter at all unless the skill of both teams are about equal. When skill is so high and so evenly matched then that is where making optimal picks matter. If you are trying to climb in rank that is where playing what you are good at matters. You climb by playing better then everyone else at your rank. If you focus only on the meta you will do little more then maintain your rank.
02/17/2018 11:13 AMPosted by aflyguy
02/17/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Glonex
Statistically, only 7 of 28 characters in the entire game have win rates over 50% according to:
https://masteroverwatch.com/heroes/pc/global/mode/ranked

This means that no matter what rank you are, you're most likely to do nothing but stay in that rank or drop a little bit. This is likely due to the match making algorithm. Factor in a leaver or two and climbing the ranks can be statistically impossible.

There is no reason people should need to buy another copy of the game, just to have a chance at fresh placements cause the system is rigged.

you have no idea how statistics work. I like how you say "can be" because you know someone will come along and say, hah i climbed ur just bad...which is true. Go look at the win rate by hero for players in gm and guess what, they are all significantly over 50 percent! U know why? probably not..


Considering that you're telling me to compare myself to the top 1% on the game, disregarding the other 99%, demonstrates that's it's you that doesn't understand statistics.
02/17/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Pokadotdurr
02/17/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Glonex
Statistically, only 7 of 28 characters in the entire game have win rates over 50% according to:
https://masteroverwatch.com/heroes/pc/global/mode/ranked

This means that no matter what rank you are, you're most likely to do nothing but stay in that rank or drop a little bit. This is likely due to the match making algorithm. Factor in a leaver or two and climbing the ranks can be statistically impossible.

There is no reason people should need to buy another copy of the game, just to have a chance at fresh placements cause the system is rigged.


1. Masteroverwatch only contains a sample of the entire Overwatch player base. There will be a margin for error that would come into account. Since the sample is not controlled it would be impossible to determine what the margin for error would be and thus those stats are very unreliable.

2. The overall win rates don't account for many factors like what the win rates are at each level of play. Characters with higher skill caps may have lower win rates at lower levels but much more average win rates at the higher level. However because there are less players at the higher level that might not be enough to offset the lower rates from the lower tiers. There would need to be a breakdown for each tier to be more accurate.

3. An overall win rate means nothing if you are playing the character at a level well beyond your current rank. Mcree has a lower win rate but if a GM player who mains Mcree went to bronze and played him do you think they would have a sub 50% win rate because your statistics dictate that Mcree is a sub optimal pick?

Let me tell you this. Meta information like this does not matter at all unless the skill of both teams are about equal. When skill is so high and so evenly matched then that is where making optimal picks matter. If you are trying to climb in rank that is where playing what you are good at matters. You climb by playing better then everyone else at your rank. If you focus only on the meta you will do little more then maintain your rank.


Valid arguments, however the statistics on that page are based on hundreds of thousands of games. I'm sure a variance exists, however I think they're likely more accurate that you give em credit for. I'd love to see data broken down by tier as well. And obviously a player smurfing in bronze from a diamond account is gonna demolish people, but I'd still bet on the inevitable leaver, thrower, poor team comp or teamwork, or all around terrible team that can't be carried by one person to make climbing SR very difficult even if someone is better than the rest of their team.
If you think of the player base as a deck of cards that's partly random but mostly in order from lowest to highest, you should be pretty easily able to understand why it would take less work to get a card from where it is to where it belongs, than if you shuffled them thoroughly every once in a while.

You might win a bunch of games and go up in SR if everyone was reset today... but you could just as easily lose a bunch and go down. SR resetting is not the magic bullet that everyone seems to think it is. Without fixing the things like quitters and smurfs and matchmaking foulups, resetting SR won't change anything.

WRT a hero's overall win rate... that means nothing, with or without the whole playerbase in masteroverwatch's database.

Among people who have ever played Widowmaker, there are two types of players: those who play Widowmaker when it makes sense, and those who play Widowmaker when they feel like it.. or perhaps a third; those who play Widowmaker every single match. Masteroverwatch gives you no way to sort those players out from one another, so the fact that one hero has a win rate higher than another tells you nothing at all, except maybe the ratio of popularity to relevance. There are players who only pull her out when defending on Ilios:Ruins and almost never lose a point.
02/17/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Glonex
Statistically, only 7 of 28 characters in the entire game have win rates over 50% according to:
https://masteroverwatch.com/heroes/pc/global/mode/ranked

This means that no matter what rank you are, you're most likely to do nothing but stay in that rank or drop a little bit. This is likely due to the match making algorithm. Factor in a leaver or two and climbing the ranks can be statistically impossible.

There is no reason people should need to buy another copy of the game, just to have a chance at fresh placements cause the system is rigged.

I've managed to climb 1500 SR from my lowest career point in less than 300 competitive games while being on the older side of the player base and having basically no previous experience of online shooters or MOBAs. All these claims about the system being rigged are total bs and I'm a living proof of it. I was almost as bad as it is possible to be when I started. At it's core, Overwatch is a simple game and you need to do so many things the wrong way consistently if you find yourself unable to climb the ranks.
Regardless of win rates and statistics, the point is that some people just want a fresh start without having to start a new account just for another shot at a different SR.
02/17/2018 01:15 PMPosted by Glonex
Regardless of win rates and statistics, the point is that some people just want a fresh start without having to start a new account just for another shot at a different SR.

I hear you. But your post also contains the very reason it's probably never going to happen. Too much money to be made from those second and possibly even third accounts. I actually bought a second account to see where I'd be placed with a fresh start (and a buttload of Roadhog playtime) and guess what? I got pretty much the same rank as I have on my main.
I personally don't see what the problem is with a hard reset. The only people who I can see genuinely being worried or complaining about it are the ones who cheated the system to begin with. For everyone else, using all of the arguments you've put forward above, surely you should place similarly to where you ended up before?

At least with a hard reset you know your season placement is not in anyway impacted upon by your previous seasons performance. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want that?

Take the new CTF Comp mode for example. There was such a BUZZ about it because it offered the fresh start so many people craved. I myself placed high silver (much where I began my ordinary comp, albeit a few hundred SR higher). It was such a nice surprise to be back where I feel I should be - I've had a hell of a time in ordinary comp, as some of you might have read in my thread 'Something Needs to be Done for the Lower Ranks' - and it was so nice to feel like the matchmaking system had righted that wrong.
02/17/2018 12:13 PMPosted by ShiroKabocha
If you think of the player base as a deck of cards that's partly random but mostly in order from lowest to highest, you should be pretty easily able to understand why it would take less work to get a card from where it is to where it belongs, than if you shuffled them thoroughly every once in a while.

You might win a bunch of games and go up in SR if everyone was reset today... but you could just as easily lose a bunch and go down. SR resetting is not the magic bullet that everyone seems to think it is. Without fixing the things like quitters and smurfs and matchmaking foulups, resetting SR won't change anything.

WRT a hero's overall win rate... that means nothing, with or without the whole playerbase in masteroverwatch's database.

Among people who have ever played Widowmaker, there are two types of players: those who play Widowmaker when it makes sense, and those who play Widowmaker when they feel like it.. or perhaps a third; those who play Widowmaker every single match. Masteroverwatch gives you no way to sort those players out from one another, so the fact that one hero has a win rate higher than another tells you nothing at all, except maybe the ratio of popularity to relevance. There are players who only pull her out when defending on Ilios:Ruins and almost never lose a point.


True that some other issues should be addressed. Leavers specifically make it especially frustrated. Total bs to lose 20 SR cause someone left or DCed. Idc that the other team gain SR, but the team with the leaver shouldn't lose SR for not pulling of a 5 v 6.
02/17/2018 12:10 PMPosted by Glonex
02/17/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Pokadotdurr
...

1. Masteroverwatch only contains a sample of the entire Overwatch player base. There will be a margin for error that would come into account. Since the sample is not controlled it would be impossible to determine what the margin for error would be and thus those stats are very unreliable.

2. The overall win rates don't account for many factors like what the win rates are at each level of play. Characters with higher skill caps may have lower win rates at lower levels but much more average win rates at the higher level. However because there are less players at the higher level that might not be enough to offset the lower rates from the lower tiers. There would need to be a breakdown for each tier to be more accurate.

3. An overall win rate means nothing if you are playing the character at a level well beyond your current rank. Mcree has a lower win rate but if a GM player who mains Mcree went to bronze and played him do you think they would have a sub 50% win rate because your statistics dictate that Mcree is a sub optimal pick?

Let me tell you this. Meta information like this does not matter at all unless the skill of both teams are about equal. When skill is so high and so evenly matched then that is where making optimal picks matter. If you are trying to climb in rank that is where playing what you are good at matters. You climb by playing better then everyone else at your rank. If you focus only on the meta you will do little more then maintain your rank.


Valid arguments, however the statistics on that page are based on hundreds of thousands of games. I'm sure a variance exists, however I think they're likely more accurate that you give em credit for. I'd love to see data broken down by tier as well. And obviously a player smurfing in bronze from a diamond account is gonna demolish people, but I'd still bet on the inevitable leaver, thrower, poor team comp or teamwork, or all around terrible team that can't be carried by one person to make climbing SR very difficult even if someone is better than the rest of their team.


It's true you get unwinnable games, but they are more rare then people percieve. I record my games and review them so I have a fairly accurate recounting of my games and I only find maybe 1 out of 20 games are unwinnable. I could unwinnable games as there being a true thrower or leaver and that is the rate I actually get them. A true thrower in my eyes is someone sitting in spawn, constantly jumping into a pit, or picking a character to be disruptive to the team (using Mei walls to intentionally block teammates ults or picking healer and not heal). It's super rare to see a true thrower.

Players I thought were throwing actually had some impact on the game even though some of their decisions were not optimal. In every case though I could have made a different decision, character pick or reacted faster to a situation. I could have turned many situations around and I am finding myself starting to make decisions that are having larger impact on the game more often. I also understand in reviewing the footage that I have embellished my memories of the games to the point that I think I was performing better then I was in reality. I may have had impact but there is always room to tighten up my play.

My point is that when you hone in on stats from an agrugate site like that you can lose focus on the things that actually win you games. I have also played Magic the Gathering competitively. In that game you can have the top tier deck but if you do not have the overall game knowledge or deck building skills you are more likely to lose with it. I played a tier 2 deck on purpose because I wanted to get better so playing to a disadvantage helped me to learn to make better plays. I would go up against inexperienced players who were playing the decks that had the highest chance to win and I would play circles around them because they didn't realize they still had to outplay me. The most fun games were against the experienced players who were playing those decks because they thought me so much. Figuring out how they outplayed me was how I learned to outplay others.

There is no better feeling then challenging yourself, setting goals and then watching yourself improve at something.
Well, with how SR is basically a constant due to placement matches not mattering past a certain point... those 10 games do feel like a complete and total waste of time.
02/17/2018 02:48 PMPosted by Pokadotdurr
02/17/2018 12:10 PMPosted by Glonex
...

Valid arguments, however the statistics on that page are based on hundreds of thousands of games. I'm sure a variance exists, however I think they're likely more accurate that you give em credit for. I'd love to see data broken down by tier as well. And obviously a player smurfing in bronze from a diamond account is gonna demolish people, but I'd still bet on the inevitable leaver, thrower, poor team comp or teamwork, or all around terrible team that can't be carried by one person to make climbing SR very difficult even if someone is better than the rest of their team.


It's true you get unwinnable games, but they are more rare then people percieve. I record my games and review them so I have a fairly accurate recounting of my games and I only find maybe 1 out of 20 games are unwinnable. I could unwinnable games as there being a true thrower or leaver and that is the rate I actually get them. A true thrower in my eyes is someone sitting in spawn, constantly jumping into a pit, or picking a character to be disruptive to the team (using Mei walls to intentionally block teammates ults or picking healer and not heal). It's super rare to see a true thrower.

Players I thought were throwing actually had some impact on the game even though some of their decisions were not optimal. In every case though I could have made a different decision, character pick or reacted faster to a situation. I could have turned many situations around and I am finding myself starting to make decisions that are having larger impact on the game more often. I also understand in reviewing the footage that I have embellished my memories of the games to the point that I think I was performing better then I was in reality. I may have had impact but there is always room to tighten up my play.

My point is that when you hone in on stats from an agrugate site like that you can lose focus on the things that actually win you games. I have also played Magic the Gathering competitively. In that game you can have the top tier deck but if you do not have the overall game knowledge or deck building skills you are more likely to lose with it. I played a tier 2 deck on purpose because I wanted to get better so playing to a disadvantage helped me to learn to make better plays. I would go up against inexperienced players who were playing the decks that had the highest chance to win and I would play circles around them because they didn't realize they still had to outplay me. The most fun games were against the experienced players who were playing those decks because they thought me so much. Figuring out how they outplayed me was how I learned to outplay others.

There is no better feeling then challenging yourself, setting goals and then watching yourself improve at something.


I just played 4 games. The first one had a leaver on both sides which balanced out and the third match had a leaver which came back, but still risked the game. That's literally half the matches today that had leavers.

Bottom line, leavers in comp are an epidemic!
02/17/2018 11:52 AMPosted by Glonex
02/17/2018 11:13 AMPosted by aflyguy
...
you have no idea how statistics work. I like how you say "can be" because you know someone will come along and say, hah i climbed ur just bad...which is true. Go look at the win rate by hero for players in gm and guess what, they are all significantly over 50 percent! U know why? probably not..


Considering that you're telling me to compare myself to the top 1% on the game, disregarding the other 99%, demonstrates that's it's you that doesn't understand statistics.

he's right though, those stats show that any hero can win more games than they lose if you just git gud. the only way to rank up is to improve your skill. the faster you stoo blaming the system, which is actually pretty decent at determining skill though not perfect, the fatster you can rank up. period.
People throw at the start of the season to rank low.
Then they throw at the end of the season to rank low.

So..... you have like, two weeks to actually play the damn game the right way?

Make it so there's not reason to throw. You should not be rewarded for this behavior.

Place people 200 under their previous season high and be done.
Someone should not be able to throw games and drop 1000 SR just to enter the next season and stomp lowbies.

I don't mind carrying over SR from season to season, but it's REALLY stupid that they allow throwers to get what they want.

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