If Sombra ever becomes Meta...

General Discussion
02/15/2018 10:00 AMPosted by BoopHer
The Zen interaction is basically the same but Sombra actually literally destroys Lucio now. Removing his ability to wallride and completely turning off whatever song he was playing means he just becomes a sitting duck. Good for removing heals in battle and ensures that no Lucio ever gets to stall a point ever again.


His crossfade was actually an ability if you want to technically think about it, but he will not just be a 'Sitting duck' play as a team and have your tank protect you for 6 seconds. Lucio can sit burst damage Sombra... that haven't changed.

I mean I'm looking forward to the buffs but why are people outright lying like they're negligible or just "QOL" buffs?


Again, how it's how people view it. Since nothing change about her, she still play the same, except hacking feels more rewarding. Legit, that is it... hack can now disable some passive.

<Edit> You are actually the person who called them Qol buffs.. Do you really fail to understand how big of a change this is?


Thanks for acknowledging that I am the person who call it QoL buff, which they are.

Spread Reduction - QoL buff
Hacking speed decrease by 0.15 - QoL buff
Hacking Passive (some) - is a buff, but also a QoL buff
No Ult Charge from Hacked Health packs - Nerf

I don't mind express why I personally think they are QoL buff, but again you may view it differently.


You are misusing or not understanding words. Literally means literally. Her interaction vs Lucio completely destroys him with the new buffs, before she was a counter to him, now she is literally a hard counter.

QoL means a small change that doesn't really tweak a characters power or change numbers. Sombra got a straight up buff. Being able to completely disable passives, hack faster and having a tighter spread for more guaranteed damage isn't QoL it's straight up meant to make the character stronger.
I don't quite agree with your post. Lucio and Zen could get focused down by Tracer and Genji before, so this won't change much in the way that those heroes have to position themselves. I play Zen, and it's not really a concern of mine. As long as hack doesn't disable or interrupt my secondary fire, I don't think that it'll matter too much.
02/15/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Dummly
02/15/2018 09:43 AMPosted by kleanupman
I get lucio but zen? I don’t see it. His heal and orb get locked out but he can still defend himself and put out damage. I’d rather be hacked on zen than any other healer.

Zenyatta vs. Sombra

Huge leg hitbox - Sombra easy kill for unsuspecting Zen.
EMP vs. Zen = 50 health Zen.
Hack vs. Zen = You can't use discord against her. Discord is very useful in 1v1s. Harmony really doesn't change at all.


Oh yeah emp drops shields so that’s major. But hack is meh. It’s not like if the other four healers get hacked.

Any way I feel people will adjust and be fine. Sombra meta is going to open things up for everyone because sombra can counter almost everyone with hack. I think this will make it harder to just run one tried and true comp like dive and force people to have to try to mix it up. The only concern is will she become mandatory
02/15/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Dummly
02/15/2018 09:39 AMPosted by BoopHer
SOMBRA always countered Lucio and Zen before her buff? Why is that so hard to grasp upon... Literally nothing changed.

In what way does she counter Lucio on live?

the idea is to hack lucio when he's on speedboost THEN kill him. Her messy spread was the key problem when dealing with lucio when going for solo kills on him
Turning off the song completely and disabling his wallriding means it's not the same. A hacked Lucio could still try to escape for 6 seconds with wallriding+speed/healing, now he is just a sitting duck. Saying "literally nothing has changed" means you don't understand what the word literally means.


I understand you have to have a ''Target" and you selected me which fine (;

I personally do not care, if I get downvoted, I am speaking nothing but the truth. You can ask any Sombra main. or user who plays a heavy amount of hour in Sombra about these changes. They will say the same thing.

She still counters the same heroes, and the same heroes still counter her.

Crossfade is an ability. I would normally hack a Lucio to prevent either the healing or speed boost.

The PTR hacking now disable any "active Passive" which wall ride is an active passive.
Zen and Lucio are too good, they’ll be FINE with one hard counter, it’s just that their job will be a little bit harder. If you look at real trash-tier heroes like Symm, Mei, Doomfist and Torb, they are all practically countered by the game itself, so don’t get all scared if two of the better and more balanced heroes get a counter. Besides, she already did it in the past just that now she’ll do a better job of it.
I love Sombra, so I'm biased as hell. I think it would be fine. Sombra still gets countered by taking 1 damage and she has delays before she can do anything out of stealth. I think supports that sit in the safety of their team can have at least one of there five teammates shoot the Sombra to stop her.
If Sombra is ever meta everyone is trash tier because that hero has little counterplay as it is already. her problem is she isn't effective.

With this buff you are just gonna get destroyed by sombra whenever she hacks you.
You are misusing or not understanding words. Literally means literally. Her interaction vs Lucio completely destroys him with the new buffs, before she was a counter to him, now she is literally a hard counter.


When I said literally, I mean as in Lucio will still play the same. like people say Lucio was never Sombra's first concern expect when he uses sound barrier. The only time Lucio will feel these changes is if he tries to 1v1 a Sombra, or when he gets EMP. That is it. Plus it's unlikely for Lucio to be by himself as a solo healer, therefore if he gets hacked, then get assist from the second healer or even the tank.

QoL means a small change that doesn't really tweak a characters power or change numbers. Sombra got a straight up buff. Being able to completely disable passives, hack faster and having a tighter spread for more guaranteed damage isn't QoL it's straight up meant to make the character stronger.
QoL (Quality of Life changes) which is what they are. You may think she receive these huge buff which completely normal. which is why I said "it depends on the person" The only huge buff I see is the hack to passive, which again I can still view them as Buff but also QoL changes for her hack as it affects only a select few.

It's okay bud (:

You are overreacting, it's quite cute . <3
02/15/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Dummly
Maybe I'm overreacting but Lucio and Zen will become trash tier.
I'll tell you why I think that.

Zenyatta is full countered by Sombra.
If you ask anyone who plays Zenyatta, whether they play Zenyatta against Sombra, they will most likely say no.
I do the same.
If torbjorn is used more Zenyatta could be okay against Sombra.

Lucio with the PTR changes will become a bully target to Sombra.
Meaning she will usually just hack you and you will be pretty much useless for 6 seconds. Making it a 5v6 basically. His weapon isn't that good if he can't get in your face.

Please someone tell me I'm wrong so I can be calm.


You are right. Cry some more!!

BOOP!
02/15/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Dummly
Maybe I'm overreacting but Lucio and Zen will become trash tier.
I'll tell you why I think that.

Zenyatta is full countered by Sombra.
If you ask anyone who plays Zenyatta, whether they play Zenyatta against Sombra, they will most likely say no.
I do the same.
If torbjorn is used more Zenyatta could be okay against Sombra.

Lucio with the PTR changes will become a bully target to Sombra.
Meaning she will usually just hack you and you will be pretty much useless for 6 seconds. Making it a 5v6 basically. His weapon isn't that good if he can't get in your face.

Please someone tell me I'm wrong so I can be calm.


Do not forget all the other heroes and rely on skills to do dps, heal or to stay alive.
Doomfist
Orisa
Genji
Roadhog
D.Va
Zarya
Mercy
Winston
Pharah
Reinhardt
Zenyatta
Lúcio
Moira
Mei
The size of sombras buff is something I would expect far less viable hero’s such as sym or torb to get. Sombra was already pretty viable, this is an overtune just like they did for junkrat. I’m predicting a sombra and tracer meta good luck everyone, especially healers.
If the PTR sombra rolls through Genji , Tracer, Doomfist... Basically most dive heros are absolutely screwed as well, the hack has been proven to be too fast to react to and can still be executed even if you break LoS, RIGHT after beginning the hack. The hack also gets an additional 5 meters range when beginning the cast at max range and moving "out of range" instead of the current 1 meter.

There are going to be a lot of characters that get absolutely hard countered by the new PTR sombra... At ~15+ meters she does more DPS than TRACER!

Source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/7xqtna/theorycrafting_notes_on_sombras_changes_in_the_ptr/

Sombra meta is coming, prepare your selves.
Sombra May counter Lucio and Zenyatta, but her prevalence will not end the duo, because they enable her. Throughout the brief Sombra meta, Lúcio Zenyatta stayed as a meta combo because the two allowed for compositions that had less dps damage output. This hasn’t changed. Sombra may do more damage now, but instead of being an ult-fight disabler, she now disables the mid-fight. Lucio and Zenyatta will be required for Sombra to operate properly, as they were before. This design is probably my biggest qualm with Overwatch in general, there are too many heroes who synergize and are weak to the exact same heroes. This is what causes mirror metas. They have a Sombra? Go Sombra to deny her healthpacks and hack her when she comes to the backline. They have a Reinhardt? Go Reinhardt to block his Earthshatter. They have Lúcio and Zenyatta? Go Lúcio and Zenyatta to match their support ults. They have a Tracer? Go Tracer to harass her in a 1v1. This is so common that I would be very surprised by anyeta that wasn’t a mirror meta without massive changes to Overwatch’s core design. Because this value holds true for Sombra, I highly doubt that Lúcio Zenyatta will be going anywhere anytime soon.
02/15/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Dummly
02/15/2018 09:39 AMPosted by BoopHer
SOMBRA always countered Lucio and Zen before her buff? Why is that so hard to grasp upon... Literally nothing changed.

In what way does she counter Lucio on live?


EMP completely wipes Sound Barrier, so a Sombra ult after an enemy Lucio ult not only disables everyone's shields and abilities, but also completely nullifies Lucio's slow-charging ultimate.

That's a strong counter.
02/15/2018 09:39 AMPosted by BoopHer
SOMBRA always countered Lucio and Zen before her buff? Why is that so hard to grasp upon... Literally nothing changed.
Oh no. I can’t switch to speedboost. At least I can still heal. That’s not really a counter. He just can’t do both.
02/15/2018 10:33 AMPosted by SquidKD
Sombra May counter Lucio and Zenyatta, but her prevalence will not end the duo, because they enable her. Throughout the brief Sombra meta, Lúcio Zenyatta stayed as a meta combo because the two allowed for compositions that had less dps damage output. This hasn’t changed. Sombra may do more damage now, but instead of being an ult-fight disabler, she now disables the mid-fight. Lucio and Zenyatta will be required for Sombra to operate properly, as they were before. This design is probably my biggest qualm with Overwatch in general, there are too many heroes who synergize and are weak to the exact same heroes. This is what causes mirror metas. They have a Sombra? Go Sombra to deny her healthpacks and hack her when she comes to the backline. They have a Reinhardt? Go Reinhardt to block his Earthshatter. They have Lúcio and Zenyatta? Go Lúcio and Zenyatta to match their support ults. They have a Tracer? Go Tracer to harass her in a 1v1. This is so common that I would be very surprised by anyeta that wasn’t a mirror meta without massive changes to Overwatch’s core design. Because this value holds true for Sombra, I highly doubt that Lúcio Zenyatta will be going anywhere anytime soon.


What? Lucio and Zen don't enable Sombra at all. Sombra doesn't need Lucio's speedboost because she has her own mobility. If both teams have a Sombra the team that has a Lucio/Zen is going to be at a disadvantage because emp wipes Zen's health and ability to change healing targets and hack/emp completely removes Lucio's healing.

An emp completely removes healing against a Zen/Lucio comp and a hack on either one takes away half your team's healing.
Sombra's escape is harder to use than other DPS due to the time constraint, her damage is lower than other DPS, IMO this change is fine.

Whether it's a Sombra hacking you then deleting you or a Tracer flanking and putting a clip in your head while being nigh unhittable... DPS is doing what DPS does.

I for one am glad she's got a reason to be picked now alongside all the other DPS heroes.
Lucio dead boiz. If opponent team picks a sombra, just change to moira at least you can survive 6 seconds leeching of somebody.

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