Breaking down why Moira is Overpowered

General Discussion
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Massive downvotes inc as this forum love low skill ceiling heroes being able to have massive impact, like Mercy& Junkrat.

First, I want you to watch this video in the time I linked it, so you truly understand the context, the engagement, and how does it feel to fight a Moira, incase you don't play DPS at all, you won't really know how it feels.

https://youtu.be/lgL0Er3UAQg?t=382

That video comes from Kragie, a proffesional player currently in London's Spitfire academy team, which will be playing Contenders, a league below OWL, consistently top10 tracer player, Rank1 multiple times, incase you say "bad dps"

Here we go, this is gonna be explained with plenty of details

1- The first argument people say when trying to defend Moira is :

"DPS players are just mad because finally a support can fight back"

Wrong, it's not the fact that Moira can fight back, it's the fact that Moira has ALL the advantages and her kit sets her to win the fight vs the majority of the DPS Roster

Ana can fight back, she can land 3 shots on you and you're dead, or 2 and a Nade, or land the skillshot known as Sleep Dart and kill you.

Zenyatta can fight back, he discords you, rightclick you instantly oneshotting you, or simply left click headshot you once and bodyshotting once
Zenyattas in the OWL have massive impact, even getting 3-4 kills per fight and carrying, as shown by JJonak vs Seoul Dynasty.
Zenyattas in the OWL take the 1v1 duels against Tracer and they do win them with a decent percentage, Rawkus shut down SBB during World Cup plenty of times.

Lucio can fight back, he's incredibly hard to kill and since his projectile speed increase he can land headshots on you and take you down.

What's the difference, all those require SKILL to win against a DPS.

Moira doesn't have to aim, she has a 6s CD on one of the best mobility abilities in the game, she has insane HP drain, range, and 100% accuracy damage, an orb to fully top her if she's under pressure.

A support is not meant to have THE EDGE when engaging a DPS in a fight, he should be able to defend himself and win if he is the better player, like a good zenyatta does.

2- Stats, Moira has completely replaced Mercy in the top1 hero across ALL ranks.

She is oficially the most picked hero in the game as of right now

Having 11% pickrate in GM and 55.72% winrate, she's really not that far off Mercy that used to have 15%+- pickrate.

Having 11% pickrate means she is close to be in almost every game, and still manages to have almost 56% winrate, as she will be in both teams the winrate can't be much higher as one has to lose.

3- Excels at TOO many things and has no weaknesses

Ana: used to have the best healing potential, a high impact ability in sleep dart, and a high potential to make plays with Nade.

0 mobility, no sustain apart from nade which is a long CD

Zen: very good utility with discord, crazy damage potential, best support ultimate

0 mobility, gigantic hitbox, no sustain as regen doesn't work in combat, low healing outside of Trans

Lucio: good utility with speed and boops, good mobility, good sustain.

Low healing outside E, people have to be grouped up to make his healing effective, sub par ultimate as there's too much damage in the game and Trans is much better, low damage compared to other supports, slow building ultimate

Moira?

Best heals in the game, fastest charging ultimate, best survability in the support category, 2nd best moblity among supports, very useful ultimate specially if combined with a good tank frontline, ability to completely zone out flankers, ability to win the fight against the majority of the DPS roster, ability to finish off kills with ease, ability to put pressure with damage orb, ability to combo healing+ healing orb doing insane amounts of healing

What's the tradeoff? basically nothing, with ana you trade amazing heals and utility for poor mobility, with zen you trade amazing damage potential and best support ult with poor mobility, a giant hitbox and low healing

4- Skill needed to be impactful

Zen is technically OP by looking at his winrates, pickrates, tournament play and overall utility in the game

How many people do really complain about Zen? How many "Genji mains" complain about zen?

Transendence completely nullifies dragonblade's impact, making it useless.

Do you see any outcry of genji mains crying about it and making countless posts about it? I don't

Why? Trans is a slow building ultimate, more or less, unless you are one of the best zens in the world and get headshots nonstop every fight, which doesn't happen and if it does, it still doesnt build as fast as Moira's.

Zen trades off 0 mobility, a gigantic hitbox and low healing for the best ultimate in the support category.

Zen has the highest kill potential out of any support, do you see people complaining about getting killed by Zen? I don't, why?

Zen takes a lot of skill to land the shots, so does Ana with sleep darts, hence they deserve to have such impact.

Moira has no real mechanical requirement, her beam doesn't require aim, just looking at the general direction of the enemy, her healing isn't exactly very mechanically demanding either, her orbs also take next to no skill, and she has a 6s CD skill that gets her out of danger and allows her to gain range to keep distance and drain HP back.

5- What can be done to make her balanced?

Reducing the amount of HP drain per second with the damage beam ( Most important change needed )
Increasing Fade cooldown to 8 seconds from 6.
Increasing the points needed to get ultimate, making it slower to charge.

What does this mean?

Moira will still be able to zone out/kill flankers/DPS, as she still retains her range, and damage.

However Moira will not be able to duel DPS heroes mindlessly knowing she will win, as the HP drain is reduced and they could OUTDPS in an easier fashion

Her ult charge would be on par with the rest of the heroes, specially support heroes.

Players would need to think when is the right time to fade, instead of spamming fade as soon as there's any danger as it will be back very fast.

This is basically it, now I know people are gonna comment the typical arguments, haha tracer/genji main, moira is not OP because... I have fun with her! and the rest of the poor arguments that they bring

Go on, I really don't care about your poor arguments, this post will be checked by the people that matter, I'm pretty sure they're aware of the issue anyways.

I wrote this as Im bored with the current ranked situation, it's pretty much a joke with the onetricks ruining games. unbalanced MM, trolls and throwers, I gained elo today and didn't even feel good about it as the quality of games was horrible.

I expect Moira nerfs soon, cheers!
Highly Rated
"Wrong, it's not the fact that Moira can fight back, it's the fact that Moira has ALL the advantages and her kit sets her to win the fight vs the majority of the DPS Roster"

You know that Tracer and Genji for example normally have ALL the advantages against the support characters? Don't cry just because a Support can fight back now.

Stop nerfing supports into punchbags for DPS. Git gud
Highly Rated
Many of DOTA 2's heroes are considered low skill, especially support heroes. Some supports like Rubick (a squishy mage who can stun and steal enemy abilities) are harder to use than, for instance, Omniknight (a straightforward, tanky support with an AOE heal and the ability to turn his entire team invincible).

Funnily enough, most of them have about the same impact. Some more than others, but not always. They bring different things to a team. Rubick can copy and repeat gamechanging ultimates, while Omniknight can grant invincibility to pretty much all forms of damage. It's good. Maybe if Blizzard were good at balance, there wouldn't be threads like these made on the daily because every support (and, indeed, a good deal of heroes) would be balanced.

Too bad.
Highly Rated
02/15/2018 03:55 PMPosted by Pulse
Zenyatta can fight back, he discords you, rightclick you instantly oneshotting you, or simply left click headshot you once and bodyshotting once
120 + 60 = 200

Keep it up champ, doing great already.
Most of this if not all is spot on but will be overlooked and downvoted without being read into because people would rather ignore the fact she far exceeds other healers and her 1v1 potential is insane

It's silly how the majority defending her are support or tank mains who don't know how much effort is required to actually beat her in a 1v1 or how she excels over the other healers

but obviously, Kragie is just bad and should get better aim if a top 10 tracer can't win against a moira /s

02/15/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Pierrito
"Wrong, it's not the fact that Moira can fight back, it's the fact that Moira has ALL the advantages and her kit sets her to win the fight vs the majority of the DPS Roster"

You know that Tracer and Genji for example normally have ALL the advantages against the support characters? Don't cry just because a Support can fight back now.

Stop nerfing supports into punchbags for DPS. Git gud


Nobody wants her to be a punching bag, we want her to actually be on par and not be thousands of times better than any other support in a 1v1 situation
Since you clearly did not read, a top 10 tracer(Kragie) recommends to avoid fighting moiras because of how stupid her self healing is
i think she is a bit overtuned, if anything her orb by far seems too strong and annoying. i don't agree with most of your points, but she does reward too much for so little effort.

you will undoubtedly get downvoted though. nobody reads the actual post, plenty of low skill players will read the title and downvote you anyway, if the other moira balance thread somebody made is any indication.
I'll play Devil's advocate and say I agree with you (I do for some of this and agree she is a bit too versatile but overall find it to be rubbish) the nerfs you suggested are ridiculous. The only reasonable one is making her ult require more points since she really does get it every team fight.

If she were to get nerfed, it'd be making her HP drain only give her 20 or 30 hps a second. This way she demands for people with proper positioning to do dmg and recharge her resource over getting careless and flanking all the time. She'd be easier to kill for DPS but she wouldn't be overnerfed. Either way, she has her healing orb or a second healer to help keep her up. But aside from that and her ult charge, she's perfectly fine and is in a good spot.
Highly Rated
Tracer main complain about a viable healer that can combat her. Yeah no she's fine
02/15/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Pierrito
You know that Tracer and Genji for example normally have ALL the advantages against the support characters? Don't cry just because a Support can fight back now.

Stop nerfing supports into punchbags for DPS. Git gud


Just as I said it would happen!

That's because they're meant to? Their job is to harass the backline effectively killing the supports/other squishy targets.

Currently Moira is outdueling pretty much any DPS, not just flankers.

You didn't even bother to read the rest that I said, rest of supports can fight back and aren't punchbags, and you didn't even watch the video because I thought a proffesional tracer player and multiple rank1 player is pretty good, yet he can't win against Moira and tells you to stay away from her.
Highly Rated
02/15/2018 04:03 PMPosted by Noblessings
Most of this if not all is spot on but will be overlooked and downvoted without being read into because people would rather ignore the fact she far exceeds other healers and her 1v1 potential is insane

It's silly how the majority defending her are support or tank mains who don't know how much effort is required to actually beat her in a 1v1 or how she excels over the other healers

but obviously, Kragie is just bad and should get better aim if a top 10 tracer can't win against a moira /s

02/15/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Pierrito
"Wrong, it's not the fact that Moira can fight back, it's the fact that Moira has ALL the advantages and her kit sets her to win the fight vs the majority of the DPS Roster"

You know that Tracer and Genji for example normally have ALL the advantages against the support characters? Don't cry just because a Support can fight back now.

Stop nerfing supports into punchbags for DPS. Git gud


Nobody wants her to be a punching bag, we want her to actually be on par and not be thousands of times better than any other support in a 1v1 situation
Since you clearly did not read, a top 10 tracer(Kragie) recommends to avoid fighting moiras because of how stupid her self healing is
Has this playerbase become that stupid? Winston has no chance against Reaper and that's okay, but when Tracer has no chance against someone NERF THAT SOMEONE RIGHT NOW?!
02/15/2018 04:03 PMPosted by Noblessings
Most of this if not all is spot on but will be overlooked and downvoted without being read into because people would rather ignore the fact she far exceeds other healers and her 1v1 potential is insane

It's silly how the majority defending her are support or tank mains who don't know how much effort is required to actually beat her in a 1v1 or how she excels over the other healers

but obviously, Kragie is just bad and should get better aim if a top 10 tracer can't win against a moira /s

The same argument could be made for Tracer's giant pickrate in OWL. A hero based around dodging, movement and mobility (alongside Genji) is picked in a scene where people are incredibly good at aiming, with sharp reflexes. Wonder why that could be. Guess their aim's just !@#$.

I think Moira's heals shouldn't cleave an entire team (she has the reverse Ana problem- instead of being able to heal a single tank up to full, she has the ability to heal multiple tanks rapidly), probably should be limited to two heroes maximum (or require more juice for healing more heroes). I also think her ult charges too fast. That's it.
Highly Rated
OP is trash dps main.
02/15/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Zaydar
Most of this if not all is spot on but will be overlooked and downvoted without being read into because people would rather ignore the fact she far exceeds other healers and her 1v1 potential is insane

It's silly how the majority defending her are support or tank mains who don't know how much effort is required to actually beat her in a 1v1 or how she excels over the other healers

but obviously, Kragie is just bad and should get better aim if a top 10 tracer can't win against a moira /s

<span class="truncated">...</span>

Nobody wants her to be a punching bag, we want her to actually be on par and not be thousands of times better than any other support in a 1v1 situation
Since you clearly did not read, a top 10 tracer(Kragie) recommends to avoid fighting moiras because of how stupid her self healing is
Has this playerbase become that stupid? Winston has no chance against Reaper and that's okay, but when Tracer has no chance against someone NERF THAT SOMEONE RIGHT NOW?!


You're the stupid one for not realizing this applies to any 200 hp hero or less with god tier aim, she's still an issue for them. Watch the video the OP posted jfc why cant people ever read posts without white knighting the heck out of the hero with no actual reasons
02/15/2018 04:03 PMPosted by Noblessings
Most of this if not all is spot on but will be overlooked and downvoted without being read into because people would rather ignore the fact she far exceeds other healers and her 1v1 potential is insane

It's silly how the majority defending her are support or tank mains who don't know how much effort is required to actually beat her in a 1v1 or how she excels over the other healers

but obviously, Kragie is just bad and should get better aim if a top 10 tracer can't win against a moira /s

02/15/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Pierrito
"Wrong, it's not the fact that Moira can fight back, it's the fact that Moira has ALL the advantages and her kit sets her to win the fight vs the majority of the DPS Roster"

You know that Tracer and Genji for example normally have ALL the advantages against the support characters? Don't cry just because a Support can fight back now.

Stop nerfing supports into punchbags for DPS. Git gud


Nobody wants her to be a punching bag, we want her to actually be on par and not be thousands of times better than any other support in a 1v1 situation
Since you clearly did not read, a top 10 tracer(Kragie) recommends to avoid fighting moiras because of how stupid her self healing is


Kragie said that and? I don't have trouble fighting Moira 1vs1 and I'm a support main
Highly Rated

Moira doesn't have to aim[...]


*sigh*


Wrong, it's not the fact that Moira can fight back, it's the fact that Moira has ALL the advantages and her kit sets her to win the fight vs the majority of the DPS Roster


Tanks. You know those exist? Moira is really bad against those.
02/15/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Zaydar
120 + 60 = 200

Keep it up champ, doing great already.


I was talking about my experience and engaging him as Tracer, hence I said those numbers, however he does rightclick squishies with ease, or double dink.
Highly Rated
I'm just waiting until support mains boycott then watch as dps cry there are no healers in the game. You reap what you sow.

No one is gonna want to play a hero that has major disadvantages to flankers. Let alone being a no-skill kill to said flanker. If you want easy kills go play against bots and leave the support heroes alone or risk a support supply shortage.
02/15/2018 04:08 PMPosted by Noblessings
You're the stupid one for not realizing this applies to any 200 hp hero or less with god tier aim, she's still an issue for them.
No? No it doesn't?
02/15/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Pierrito
"Wrong, it's not the fact that Moira can fight back, it's the fact that Moira has ALL the advantages and her kit sets her to win the fight vs the majority of the DPS Roster"

You know that Tracer and Genji for example normally have ALL the advantages against the support characters? Don't cry just because a Support can fight back now.

Stop nerfing supports into punchbags for DPS. Git gud


Genji/Tracer and dps in general should have the advantage in a duel against support because support can provide advantage to the team better than a dps can.

Like the op said it's fine for support to fight back but skill should be a requirement. Healing already does not require skill (except for Ana).
Highly Rated
Stupidity is not a right.

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