Breaking down why Moira is Overpowered

General Discussion
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Yes, I play Moira, but I wouldn't care if her range or orb damage was nerfed, as long as her resource recharge was buffed to compensate. I play Moira on the healing side, always have 10000+ healing if the match is going well. So I very often end up running out of resource and have to use almost all my orbs as healing orbs. I only go DPS Moira if I'm chasing down the last person from the team fight or need to recharge.

If her range was shorter, I'd have to leave from behind my safe Rein shield to recharge that resource. So yes, nerf her range and orb so that it has less reach, or goes slower, or whatever. BUT if you do, buff the reload on her healing resource, or allow the damage orb to do that as well.

People want Moira to be a heal-only character but she can't pocket. She can't constantly heal.

Also, the damage, while constant, is low. Her orb is less effective if your team is grouped up: 200 divided by 6 is 33 damage to each. Do you know what the counter to Moira is? Never going solo. 1 v 1 is designed for her to win unless you can land headshots. Moira is countered by Dva if she eats her orbs, by Genji if he reflects them, by barriers which block her attack beam, by self sustain and high damage (I've died to Reapers most often out of all DPS), and by tanks, who she takes a long time to kill by herself. Roadhog will almost never die to a Moira 1v1.

It sounds like a lot of people try to flank or 1v1 her when they just. Shouldn't. It's hard to change a mindset that has been in the game for the whole 2 years it has been out when a new hero comes out. I shudder to think what the reaction to the next hero would be if it is a slow effect hero or countered Tracer/Genji/DPS as well.

iirc: I'm ok with Moira's damage/range/orb getting nerfed, but her resource would need buffed to compensate, or her damage orb recharge it too.

Also, what if it was just one or that did damage or heals at once?
02/16/2018 08:41 AMPosted by Pulse
02/16/2018 08:34 AMPosted by SquidKD
She has a very clear weakness, being that she only has healing and damage


Utility is not even 100% guaranteed and not always 100% useful

Ana's sleep is a SKILLSHOT that might or not work, and other factors like your team waking the target up.

Lucio's speed is pretty useless while defending and you'd rather have healing except for when you wanna engage aggresively with beat so then you beat + speed

So yeah, having top damage + best healing + best survability + top movement is gonna bring MORE UTILITY to your team than a sleep dart, that's how it is in reality.


Dmg isn't always useful either. Junk always had the best raw dmg output since day one and was F-Tier for so long. She does nothing but trash dmg which feeds enemy support ults if she spams dmg orbs or doesn't finish a kill. Her ult builds fast and is versatile, but it'll never be as good as the other support ults (execpet Lucio) no ranged heals or enough mobility to heal her team from multiple areas (Mercy GA and long range on two seconds and Lucio wallride and speed with no cooldowns let them go back and forth while Moira still has a punishing cool down to waste) and utility wins games more than Moira. Moira only has a high winrate cause she's picked in many games. Of course she'll have a bunch of wins incoming, even against herself.

Lucio was the must play support for a whole year because speed boost was everything for winning. No one picked Mercy despite her being the best consistent healer and being the safest pick. Why's that? Because she had no midfight potential, has barely any utility, and her ult was just a second chance that could easily feed enemy ults. Moira may provide a high midfight potential, but she can only do her own thing or keep people alive.

She'll never make Reinhardt or Reaper be able to destroy teams like Lucio does. She'll never make a target be an easy kill (even if it's a tank) for flankers like Zenyatta does. She'll never be able to make the enemy healers useless the way Ana does. Nor can she turn a team fight's momentum the way Mercy ever does.

Moira may be easy and get high value, but when all you have is raw healing, you'll never win an ult fight, an aggressive mid fight or even clutch a win from a close call. Either you keep your momentum going, or you lose it. All you are is just an aggressive healbot.
There was an interview involving the devs of the game.

It was said that players look at things as they are today, the devs look at things as to how they will be tomorrow.

It was said that Moria is a strong character on certain maps, but to keep in mind hero 27 is coming. It was implied maybe Moria is the way she is (and potentially other characters getting buffs) for a reason we do not yet know.

Also, stop implying support characters need a nerf.

I swear to God, I won't have any patience if I hear s**t should one day a team comp be comprised of dps, tanks, and defense only.
Wrong, it's not the fact that Winston can fight back, it's the fact that Winston has ALL the advantages and his kit sets him to win the fight vs the majority of the DPS Roster. Roadhog can fight back, he can land 1 shot on you and you're dead, or a hook and a shot. Dva can fight back, she's incredibly hard to kill and can land headshots on you and take you down. What's the difference, all those require SKILL to win against a DPS. A tank is not meant to have THE EDGE when engaging a DPS in a fight, he should be able to defend himself and win if he is the better player, like a good Dva does.
Winston doesn't have to aim, he has a 6s CD on one of the best mobility abilities in the game, he has insane HP, and 100% accuracy damage, a shield to fully protect him if he's under pressure.

Probably would be better off comparing Moira to a Winston then any other support.
I agree to some extent but i think shes mostly fine. Then again, they could lower her biotic grasp self heal a notch. That would also increase the use of healing orbs. Right now its just damage orbs, damage orbs and damage orbs all over. Why would they ever use the healing orbs since they can survive just fine without it?
02/16/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Hunterskull
Wrong, it's not the fact that Winston can fight back, it's the fact that Winston has ALL the advantages and his kit sets him to win the fight vs the majority of the DPS Roster. Roadhog can fight back, he can land 1 shot on you and you're dead, or a hook and a shot. Dva can fight back, she's incredibly hard to kill and can land headshots on you and take you down. What's the difference, all those require SKILL to win against a DPS. A tank is not meant to have THE EDGE when engaging a DPS in a fight, he should be able to defend himself and win if he is the better player, like a good Dva does.
Winston doesn't have to aim, he has a 6s CD on one of the best mobility abilities in the game, he has insane HP, and 100% accuracy damage, a shield to fully protect him if he's under pressure.

Probably would be better off comparing Moira to a Winston then any other support.


That gave me life :D you sir are great!
She can heal through enemy barriers when it's evidently a bug.

I think that is the only technical thing to calling OP, when a character is doing something they're not intended to.

Otherwise, while she seems to do lots of damage, she potentially throws out lots of garbage damage.

I've played a few games where I caught on to this and swap to Mercy, because Valk > Coalescence in pushing power, and if Moira is going to help me farm Valk at a really insane speed, I'm going to punish for it... Because Moira can't kill Mercy in Valk.

I'd say she's balanced by that aspect.
Seems like the only skill that matters these days is aim. "Moira doesn't need aim. Mercy's doesn't need aim. Junkrat doesn't need aim. Symm doesn't need aim." Well I hope people realize they require other skills such as healing management, ult management, target prioritization and among many others. Just because those heroes don't require you to track a dot over a red object doesn't mean they don't require skill and need nerfs.
Dude. “Massive Impact” does not describe Moira. She’s strong at what she does, but she’ll never be able to burst down an entire back line like Tracer or Solo stall an entire team like Mei or Roadhog. fact if the matter is, if you have a Moira on your team, and the enemy team doesn’t, you’re not guaranteed victory.
Moira is technically balanced. Agreed, OP's arguments are on paper, valid, but it boils down to one thing: SKILL.

Moira doesn't require as much skill as the other support heroes. I believe Moira is added to the game because perhaps they saw an increase in sales, and these new players just can't compete against those with way more hours. Or perhaps they wanted low ranked competitive (like mine) to have more support.

Whatever the reason, they added a low-skill hero. Sym aim, Lucio sustain, Genji mobility and epic team utility potential. Her abilities are balanced, you just require a very short time to play her well, though mastering her may be another case entirely.
Massive downvotes inc as this forum love low skill ceiling heroes being able to have massive impact, like Mercy& Junkrat.

Don't try to blame a large number of down votes on everyone else being wrong. It always looks petty.

It's entirely possible the people down voting you are wrong (personally I don't think they are in this case) but all you're going to do by accusing them of being no-skill players is alienate them to your viewpoint and probably incur more down votes.
02/15/2018 04:03 PMPosted by Noblessings

Nobody wants her to be a punching bag, we want her to actually be on par and not be thousands of times better than any other support in a 1v1 situation
Since you clearly did not read, a top 10 tracer(Kragie) recommends to avoid fighting moiras because of how stupid her self healing is


Most of us want her to f up Genji and Tracer. Those characters make the other 24 in the roster less fun so the more salty those characters get, the better.
02/16/2018 08:41 AMPosted by Pulse
02/16/2018 08:34 AMPosted by SquidKD
She has a very clear weakness, being that she only has healing and damage


Utility is not even 100% guaranteed and not always 100% useful

Ana's sleep is a SKILLSHOT that might or not work, and other factors like your team waking the target up.

Lucio's speed is pretty useless while defending and you'd rather have healing except for when you wanna engage aggresively with beat so then you beat + speed

So yeah, having top damage + best healing + best survability + top movement is gonna bring MORE UTILITY to your team than a sleep dart, that's how it is in reality.

Lucio’s Speed is so useless that the only thing that could ever make it not the best ability in the game was Mercy 2.0. Ana’s sleepdart is not all of her utility either, it’s simply the most obvious. You throw your nade at 4 tanks being healed by a Moira. You win the fight. Honestly I can’t take you very seriously when you say that Speed Boost isn’t very useful on Defense.
02/15/2018 04:03 PMPosted by Noblessings
Most of this if not all is spot on
what?
02/15/2018 03:55 PMPosted by Pulse
Massive downvotes inc as this forum love low skill ceiling heroes being able to have massive impact, like Mercy& Junkrat.

First, I want you to watch this video in the time I linked it, so you truly understand the context, the engagement, and how does it feel to fight a Moira, incase you don't play DPS at all, you won't really know how it feels.


I find this part incredibly hilarious, because this is the same forum who cry out for Mercy nerfs, without having played a single minute on her and 'don't know how it really feels'.
02/15/2018 03:55 PMPosted by Pulse
Massive downvotes inc


truer words were never spoken - 204 when i write this
wonder how many downvotes OP has by now :D
02/15/2018 09:57 PMPosted by Your
02/15/2018 08:13 PMPosted by Darkpengi
You play Tracer at a GM level and you’re complaining about Moira???

You completely can completely burst her down with the level of damage YOUR main does.

You must be bad dps if you’re getting killed by Moira a lot.

God forbid supports be able to fight back for once.

Just watch Dafran, who probably has as good of mechanical skill as it gets. He regularly failed to duel Moira. It is not a matter of aim, Moira straight up counter high mobility low burst flankers, Genji and Tracer included. High burst character counter Moira. What counter Moira is not what you usually expect on rest of supports.


Rock, meet paper.
Why do all of these threads revolve around the salt of Moira's ability to "duel DPS heroes"?

Why are you 1v1ing in an objective based team game? Her role as a support capable of fending off single flanking DPS attempting to get at your back line is perfectly reasonable, and she's balanced in her ability to do this. She basically serves as a counter-pick to a dive comp by being able to shut down isolated enemies that aren't coming at you head on.

Why is being able to counter-pick dive comps a bad thing?
02/15/2018 04:08 PMPosted by Noblessings
You're the stupid one for not realizing this applies to any 200 hp hero or less with god tier aim, she's still an issue for them. Watch the video the OP posted jfc why cant people ever read posts without white knighting the heck out of the hero with no actual reasons


If I can trash a Moira as Sombra, you should be able to trash her as Tracer. Not to mention you're whining about this as a GM player. Let DPS have counters already.

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