Ana. Nerfing other supports won't make her better.

General Discussion
1) The belief that nerfing other supports will make ana better is foolish.

2) dps Squishies is not her problem either. She has the tools to 1v1 all dps heros

3) tanks are her problem. The buff to ana helped her mitigate dps heros but did nothing to help her with thanks. So in a meta where she should counter Moira it's far from possible.

3a)Ana does 70dps to kill a flanking tank you need to hit a tank with 8-9 shots none of those 3 shot !@#$.
EIGHT TO NINE SHOTS! Not to mention hip fire lag.
3b) drop a sheild zone all of her value out. Winston bubble = no Ana
Orisa barrier = no Ana
Dva matrix = no Ana
Rein sheild= half ana.

Ana can be tweaked to be viable without changing her kit. She can also be reworked.
1) give her a defensive ult.
2) Increase rate of fire by 10-15%
>Decrease healing to 70 to balance
>Increase clip size to 12
3) provide ana with sheilds
4) movement increase after landing sleep
5) fix projectiles hit registry. Hanzos hit registry is more crisp and accurate than anas right now for enemies
6) wall climb
7) increased dmg to barriers
8) increased dmg against armor
02/20/2018 01:14 AMPosted by Chumlee
6) wall climb
This would probably do wonders in my opinion. I've been playing her a lot ever since release, and the fact that she has absolutely no way to get to proper sniping spots is baffling. Hell, even the simple ability to climb ledges would help her.

You got Widowmaker who can use her hook to get to high ground, as well as use it for grapple jump oneshots. You got Hanzo who can climb walls and (soon) leap horizontally to disengage from the enemy in-combat.

And then you have Ana. The whole point of a sniper is to get to high ground and fight from far away, which she can't do. She's forced to take the stairs and / or stay close to her team, which is a complete waste of her weapon's possibilities.

Coupled with the lack of a true self-healing passive and the fact that she actually has to waste her grenade, her most important ability, to burst heal for 100 HP, she's not in a good spot.
Give the old woman a Wall climb !!
02/20/2018 01:21 AMPosted by BrazZOR
Give the old woman a Wall climb !!


I agree with you and ixron. It would certainly suit her as a sniper healer.

This would help her deal with dive tanks better.
I would say wall climb and armor would be best
Increasing fire rate would be cool.
02/20/2018 01:27 AMPosted by Cly
Increasing fire rate would be cool.


The idea behind increasing her rate of fire is it wouldn't change the dps vs ana duels significantly. This would have to be tested to ensure she didn't have a huge upperhand vs the rest of the dps roster. The duels are normally 2 shots and nade or sleep the rest of her kit has much more to do with the due than the rate of fire does.

the rate of fire increase buff is meant to give her more power when it comes to
-breaking barriers
-shaving health away from flanking tanks.
There's no indication right now that they're trying to make Ana better.

Her pickrate is very decent right now, higher than Lucio's on average. She's also not on Jeff's "imbalanced hero" list. She's also only ten damage below where she was when she was considered OPAF, and whilst the rise of Winston/dive D.Va certainly hurt her, Blizz don't tend to buff heroes based on their counters or the meta.

So... yeah... don't get your hopes up.
02/20/2018 01:46 AMPosted by EMc73
There's no indication right now that they're trying to make Ana better.

Her pickrate is very decent right now, higher than Lucio's on average. She's also not on Jeff's "imbalanced hero" list. She's also only ten damage below where she was when she was considered OPAF, and whilst the rise of Winston/dive D.Va certainly hurt her, Blizz don't tend to buff heroes based on their counters or the meta.

So... yeah... don't get your hopes up.


you may be right that ana isn't on their radar yet. But its becoming pretty obvious what is working and what isn't.

overbuff.com for stats. Use this weeks to see the trends.
ana 2.5% pick rates to lucios 6.5% in gm. she is rarely played in pro games.
she is the highest skill cap hero so if she is going to work anywhere its gm/pro. im not foolish enough to think the rest of us can play her better than gm players and pros and with the skill cap it should pay off at some point.

yes theres some confusion with the mercy nerfs.
ana is a main healer, flashy, and fun but people will catch on that she just as bad as she was before mercy got nerfed.
02/20/2018 02:05 AMPosted by Chumlee
you may be right that ana isn't on their radar yet. But its becoming pretty obvious what is working and what isn't.

overbuff.com for stats. Use this weeks to see the trends.
ana 2.5% pick rates to lucios 6.5% in gm. she is rarely played in pro games.
she is the highest skill cap hero so if she is going to work anywhere its gm/pro. im not foolish enough to think the rest of us can play her better than gm players and pros and with the skill cap it should pay off at some point.

yes theres some confusion with the mercy nerfs.
ana is a main healer, flashy, and fun but people will catch on that she just as bad as she was before mercy got nerfed.


Whilst sure the GM Ana players are the best, you have to remember that GM also play far more Ana counters. Just look at Tracer, D.Va and Winston's usage in plat compared to grandmasters.

Not that that's the only reason she's not picked much in GM, but at the same time, don't expect a buff just because a hero is below average for <1% of the community. I think Blizz tend to look primarily at diamond+ as a range, rather than just the stats at the very extreme.
Whilst sure the GM Ana players are the best, you have to remember that GM also play far more Ana counters. Just look at Tracer, D.Va and Winston's usage in plat compared to grandmasters.

Not that that's the only reason she's not picked much in GM, but at the same time, don't expect a buff just because a hero is below average for <1% of the community. I think Blizz tend to look primarily at diamond+ as a range, rather than just the stats at the very extreme.[/quote]

diamond+ range she is on the low end of the spectrum. Even worse than below diamond
- Ana is not dive and therefore should be strong in a counter dive comp If the counter dive heros are strong enough.
- All roads should not lead to dive. There should be a counterplay. The explanation "she is countered because of dive" means either
A) dive is too strong since there is no strong counterplay
B)The best way to ensure dive is always to strong is to make dive heros significantly stronger than the immobile supports. Wiping supports = win.

What about moira deathball and quad tank?
we have seen quad tank.. Well that's not dive now is it? oh wait also too weak even tho hitting an antiheal in the middle of deathball should be the counter.

In what comp is she viable rn? can you lay out the heros.
IF moira were nerfed it would just resort back to dive zen lucio so moira isn't the problem either for her her.

I think you might be off on something bc there should be a comp where a hero is viable especially a high skill cap one.
02/20/2018 03:34 AMPosted by Chumlee
diamond+ range she is on the low end of the spectrum. Even worse than below diamond
- Ana is not dive and therefore should be strong in a counter dive comp If the counter dive heros are strong enough.
- All roads should not lead to dive. There should be a counterplay. The explanation "she is countered because of dive" means either
A) dive is too strong since there is no strong counterplay
B)The best way to ensure dive is always to strong is to make dive heros significantly stronger than the immobile supports. Wiping supports = win.

What about moira deathball and quad tank?
we have seen quad tank.. Well that's not dive now is it? oh wait also too weak even tho hitting an antiheal in the middle of deathball should be the counter.

In what comp is she viable rn? can you lay out the heros.
IF moira were nerfed it would just resort back to dive zen lucio so moira isn't the problem either for her her.

I think you might be off on something bc there should be a comp where a hero is viable especially a high skill cap one.


That's not how counters work at all.

That's like saying Reaper isn't a sniper, so therefore he works in a counter-sniper comp. It's just not true, Reaper is countered by snipers and you run a different hero like Winston to counter snipers. To counter dive you need dive resistant abilities. Moira is a great choice for anti-dive, as fade allows her to escape most things and her self heal is so powerful. Ana isn't. She's a sniper.

Ana remains the best healer for prolonged battles with high healthpool heroes. Moira is certainly good at meatball rushing, but she struggles to keep that D.Va that keeps poking her head out at full health. I'll freely admit that Ana's niche is a particularly bad one now that Winston is everywhere, D.Va is a full dive tank and Roadhog is far less reliant on his healers than he once was. I would absolutely want an Ana change that'd give her a new niche, as I don't think people overly enjoyed how long Ana made fights last when she was meta. But a pure buff? It's unlikely to happen anytime soon.
I'm very glad others have mentioned wall climb - I think this is the missing ingredient in Ana's kit now and should be added as a passive skill.

I was 'viva-la-75-dmg' previously but I'm starting to think that this won't really solve any of her current issues - only a nice-to-have.

She needs elevation and good positioning to be effective - going on a slow mega-flank to get to a high-ground point is a sure-fire way for both your teammates and yourself to have a quick trip back to the spawn room; the time-risk of going off to find that position is usually rarely justified.

The wall climb should be balanced, however, so that it isn't like a DPS hero. My suggestions would be as follows:

- Half the speed of Hanzo / Genji's wall-climb (i.e. she uses those suction-type hand / foot grips to do the climbing)
- Any damage taken immediately cancels the climb and drops her to the ground

The rationale behind this is that it is primarily a 're-position' tool used outside of the heat of immediate combat and not an escape tool which, if left unchecked, could be open to some serious role-abuse as a self-supporting / rapid escaping sniper.
Giving ana a wallclimb? please tell me you are joking? That would be hilarious to see, but no. I'm at the point where just give her the 80 damage back and call it a day
02/20/2018 04:19 AMPosted by Vizra
Giving ana a wallclimb? please tell me you are joking? That would be hilarious to see, but no. I'm at the point where just give her the 80 damage back and call it a day
Why it's a joke, or old military woman can't climb walls? She is sniper after all.
02/20/2018 04:19 AMPosted by Vizra
Giving ana a wallclimb? please tell me you are joking? That would be hilarious to see, but no. I'm at the point where just give her the 80 damage back and call it a day


We have talking gorillas, dragons that sprout from people's arms, a little Swedish dwarf that can't speak Swedish... but an elderly lady being able to climb bothers you?
02/20/2018 04:19 AMPosted by Vizra
Giving ana a wallclimb? please tell me you are joking? That would be hilarious to see, but no. I'm at the point where just give her the 80 damage back and call it a day


I'm all for that (believe me, I'd love to see a further damage tweak) but what would it actually solve?

Half of her issues come from line-of-sight blocking (enemy barriers, own team mates, enemy team, ground-level cover etc...).

If she is able to re-position to some decent elevation, it would help her immensely.

At the moment, she has 'Sombra syndrome' as in she is only particularly potent on certain maps.

e.g. first point on Numbani on defence where there is easy-to-get-to elevation and good sight lines of your own and the enemies team whilst defending the point.

They are already fixing this with Sombra by shifting removing power in her ultimate back (charging speed wise) and placing it back into her regular kit to make her more viable in more situations and on more maps. I think this is the right direction of travel for under-utilised heroes.

This sort of adjustment is what Ana needs.

I find myself having to play out of my skin to extract the same value out of Ana (sometimes evenly stubbornly so) where I know the other supports are more reliable choices in the majority of situations.

There are few times where I find Mercy / Moire / Lucio / Zenyatta to be ever be completely ineffective at any given situation.

Yes, there are maps and compositions which favour a certain support pick (which is great - that's how it should be) but there are unfortunately plenty of scenarios you'll find yourself in with Ana where you know that your effectiveness will be limited before you've even left the spawn doors.
Remember in Ana's reveal trailer she was on top of the first chokepoint on Temple of Anubis?

Give Ana wallclimb.
02/20/2018 04:45 AMPosted by Gryphodon
Remember in Ana's reveal trailer she was on top of the first chockpoint on Temple of Anubis?

Give Ana wallclimb.


Just thinking the same actually - would be a super-cool place to support your team from.

Think it was on the second point wasn't it?

Anyway - point is still the same; new dimension to supporting the team.

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