What's the deal with the Support vs DPS hate?

General Discussion
Prev 1 2 3 7 Next
02/15/2018 10:03 PMPosted by Widowmaker
Mercy got nerf, for some reason all the blames are being push onto dps mains.
With all the "all dps main fault" statement being toss here and there, that's the cause of the rift.

Yeah, your hero got nerf/rework into something you don't like, blame bliz, but it's "DPS MAIN FAULT".


It is actually DPS main's fault. No mercy player wanted Rez nerfed. No Mercy player wanted the Valk rework. One streamer hated having his q press undone by another q press, so he complained, so his followers complained, so many DPS players complained. Read the 30,000 posts regarding the rework. The vast majority are of solid suggestions by Mercy players that would make Rez balanced. They completely remade a hero instead of fixing what people were complaining about, and the only ones who complained were the DPS mains. They asked for this rework, and for each following nerf, and they got them all.

Mercy was countered by the DPS doing their job and killing the supports, but the DPS didn't and the supports, especially Mercy, profited.
Because every dip !@#$s on support players when they do something "wrong"

Meanwhile when a support criticizes a dps main, they go f***n ape %^-*.
...
She wasn't balanced, lol. Though now she can be semi-useless depending on the skill of the player.


i have put in over 300hr into her and have been told by masters and GM players that h know how to use the charater but in her current state she is simi-useless she cannot output half the damage of any of the other supports and all of her abilities rely on a good well cordinated team(very rair)none of the other supports are limited in the way she is.


Play Medic in TF2. You have next to no mobility and pitiful damage. The only reason the Medic is even run is because of Overhealing and Ubercharge. Not to mention they're the only main healing class in the game.

Mercy has superior mobility, plus utility outside of her ult in the form of damage boost and res. She was reworked because she saw little to no play in high ranks, coupled with the detrimental effect Huge Res had on performance-based SR (which should have been removed from the get-go), and subsequently nerfed because none of the other primary healers were seeing play.
02/15/2018 10:17 PMPosted by Xaron

It is actually DPS main's fault. No mercy player wanted Rez nerfed. No Mercy player wanted the Valk rework. One streamer hated having his q press undone by another q press, so he complained, so his followers complained, so many DPS players complained. Read the 30,000 posts regarding the rework. The vast majority are of solid suggestions by Mercy players that would make Rez balanced. They completely remade a hero instead of fixing what people were complaining about, and the only ones who complained were the DPS mains. They asked for this rework, and for each following nerf, and they got them all.

Mercy was countered by the DPS doing their job and killing the supports, but the DPS didn't and the supports, especially Mercy, profited.


See? "dps main fault", for example when Ana got nerf, whose fault is that?
When Genji got nerf, whose fault is that? When Roadhog got nerf, whose fault is that? When Widowmaker got nerf, whose fault?

Suddenly, when Mercy got nerf, "dps main fault"

The only person who complained were not just dps mains. That's like saying the only person who complained about Ana's nerf is Mercy main. Which is not true, but a lot of Mercy mains did complained about Ana being op and can do everything that Mercy can, but better.
As a tank main, don't ask me to take sides please. Leave me out of this.
I would argue that it's a necessary consequence of Overwatch's design.

DPS is the only role of the three (DPS, Tank, Support) which is designed around having a first-order impact on the game. Tanks can kill as well as DPS but often have mobility and/or range disadvantages that mean that they are better played to create space for DPS players - giving them a second-order impact with the possibility for personal moments of glory. The lesser combat capability of Supports means that they require both Tanks and DPS to be effective in order to be effective themselves while having only second or third-order effects on the game. This is reflected in ultimates and PotGs; Supports rely heavily on their team with most support ultimates rendering them relatively passive onlookers while DPS ultimates generally result in multikills and PotG opportunities.

In addition, the Support role is about fixing your teammates' mistakes. This unfortunately means that Support players are both a primary target for enemy DPS and for their own team to blame once things go wrong. The Support experience is to be performing actions that have no direct impact on the enemy, are not recognised by the game (no PotG), and which affect the success of your team through your teammates skills (or lack thereof). This is while you are often attacked by enemy DPS and are the first to be blamed once the team fails.

Add to this the popularity of DPS due to its first-order impact as well as the likelihood that your team probably aren't protecting their support/s and it becomes easy to see where the feud starts: Support players hate DPS players. DPS are toxic idiots who need to be constantly babysat and don't appreciate what you do for the team. They are all too happy to whine about needing a healer but won't play one and spend the game farming easy kills on the enemy healers while the enemy DPS farms easy kills off you.

Every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction so we see DPS disparagement of Support players as unskilled crybabies. They are never where you need them and don't understand that they should be positioning themselves so they can't be picked off by enemy DPS. Supports are perfectly capable of fighting off flankers if they have the skill anyway.

This is all conjecture but I think it explains the community we see. It explains the fanatic defence/hatred of Mercy as well as the current Genji/Tracer (Supports hate flanks) and Moira (flanks expect easy kills) arguments.
Here's the deal. Supports dictate the meta but that happens because you have one support that is out classing the rest of the supports. Also because there are only so few to choose from. When one support is so dominat (i.e Mercy or Ana and currently Moira), that's when the dps rise up to make their complaints.

I'm not saying that Mercy didn't need her nerf BUT she would not have been in the state she was if there was no witch hunt for her to reworked. On top of that dps some how feels like its the Mercy players' fault she was OP to begin with. They were minding their own business in F-Tier just fine.

Before all this Mercy stuff the witch hunt was for Lucio and then Ana. And just as soon as Ana was laid to rest, they went after Mercy to clip her wings. Now the cycle continues with Moira. What nail file will they use to manucure those talons?

Funniest thing out of this. Zen is being whispered about under the Moira talks. He's the weakest support next to Mercy... he just has great dps so he can defend himself unlike her depending on the player.

I have nothing against dps, I play those heroes too but what happened to the community learning to adapt? What about getting good? Instead of that low skill players come to the forums to cry for support nerfs or any nerf for that matter so long as it isn't there precious hero. They listen to pro players, streamers and youtubers as if that wins them brownie points if they agree with these people. Following them like sheep, becoming meta slaves and trying to follow the game like pro players. They will never be as good as the 1% of players in OWL. Balancing the game around skill I agree with but when you WILLINGLY want the WEAKEST hero in the game to be an EASY NO-SKILL KILL, I question just what kind of skill is this game being balanced around? Is it cry baby dps, whinny support or true players that learn to adapt to the heroes they play and the ones they don't? I like that other heroes are getting buffed but mark my words if they become too "OP" (another form of saying annoying), more forum cry babies will arise asking for nerfs and many more pretending to be logical will use smurf accounts to start fires.

Meanwhile, Blizzard and Co are adamant about not all heroes need to be viable. Sure that makes sense. Make 26 hereos with less than half of your roster being used because the hero is "situational". Meanwhile... supports get gutted and certain dps heroes have less counters. By fixing the low pick heroes and making them more viable it leaves players with more options. More options means more heroes that could potentially shutdown certain oppressive supports and/or dps that normally had no counters.

The game is unbalanced and rather than be upset at the people that refuse to fix their game, they direct their anger at a class or hero player base laughing and being toxic when that hero gets gutted. Meanwhile the game becomes less enjoable and more people leave.

If that is the kind of game you want, keep being petty. Keep asking for unnecessary changes. The game is unbalanced, the players are toxic, heroes are consistently changing either becoming fair but boring or useful but situational. Sure there are fun hereos and that's subjective but lots of support mains have thrown in the towel because they see the way this game is going: DPSWATCH.

Heck quite a few tank mains have switch to dps or left the game too and those players are often neutral in this back and forth. While I have nothing against dps players I see the writing on the wall. Dps get what they want the most over other classes, especially the main two focal heroes of OWL. It is what it is but if you play any other class outside of dps, you cant help feeling slighted by that.
The cliche DPS main has a tendency to call anyone that doesn't play heroes they deem skillful boosted, no-skill, etc. While the cliche support main can be super passive-aggro and would sell their own grandmother to Satan for a single corn ship before admitting they did something wrong.

Both are super loud on this forum and are always at each other's throats.
02/15/2018 09:48 PMPosted by Fish
Because a lot of certain types of players, probably not even that good at their hero main, come to the forums demanding nerfs...

And a lot of the time have actually gotten what they wanted. The most recent case being a hero that was balanced before the rework. But is very much hated by certain types of players, no matter what her level of power is.

The rest is just the vicious cycle.

There is no passive aggression here. None at all. Personally, I found hiding to Resurrect boring, and its not like I didn't know how to do it, it was hilariously easy to do. I could mention that Mercy actually wasn't balanced pre-rework. She was hilariously garbage in pro play outside of koth pharmercy, and she was extremely oppressive in low ranks where people didn't understand how to kill her. If you didn't know, the developers' job isn't just to balance the game, it is also to make it more fun. Why do you think Scatter Arrow is being looked at right now? It definitely isn't because Hanzo is overpowered. Now, I actually quite enjoy playing the new, dynamic Mercy. So if you want to continue to complain about the DPS who kills you instead of actually learning how to not die, that is on you, not me.
Hey what's going on in h.eea... O_O
*slowly backs out*
nothing against dying to support like say ana or zen but moira needs to be nerfed atleast ana and zen have to work for it and have decent aim and skill where is moria u hold onto m2 with 0 skillz needed
Because supports aren't allowed to do or be anything but be heal bots and punching bags for DPS players

And support players don't want to be heal bots and punching bags for DPS players

But Blizzard only listens to DPS players

So the supports become heal bots and punching bags
My thoughts.
Other games - always have discussions like "supports vs all".
This game:
Supports are heal bots, too few other options for support.
Zarya is the best support.
Supports are bound by their casual kits for all, that's why supports cannot grow up.
Op and lame at same time the most best game design ever.
02/16/2018 12:08 AMPosted by Gryphodon
Because supports aren't allowed to do or be anything but be heal bots and punching bags for DPS players

And support players don't want to be heal bots and punching bags for DPS players

But Blizzard only listens to DPS players

So the supports become heal bots and punching bags


That's how the game is balanced in the first place, supports have abilities to heal while certain dps main role is to kill said supports. When a support is able to heal along with countering their main counters then balance falls apart. Why play a hero designed to counter supports when that's not actually the case at all. What if every single dps and tank hero was given a self heal ability? Suddenly you don't even need supports on a team.
DPS players have a habit of seeing Support players as unskilled, otherwise they themselves would be DPS players. This is obviously ridiculous, however this notion allows them to believe their opinion is more important. "Just sit back and hold Left-Click, darlin'. I'm going to save the World."

DPS players often are !@#$%ed at by Support players for a variety of reasons. Sometimes, Supports are in bad positions and complain when dying. Other times, DPS players fail to defend their Supports from flankers, among other things. Conversely, DPS players will also complain if they die, but in their mindset it's usually due to "no heals", when in reality it's because they are out of position themselves and the healers have no access to them.

You then have Support players who wish to be DPS mains, but feel obligated to play Healer 24/7. DPS players seem to be comprised of people of varying personality. Some are toxic or believe they posses the most skill. Both Support and DPS can be egotistical who believe they do everything while others are slacking.

In the end, it seems these two parties tend to hate each other because they are two independent paradoxes that rely on each other for success. The taker of life relies on the giver of it. Supports cannot survive if DPS do not kill. DPS cannot kill if Supports do not survive. When either are failing, collapse is inevitable. As someone who had 200 hours on Mercy and now has almost 200 hours between Widowmaker/Tracer, I've experienced it from both sides. I take the "life lessons" I learned during my Mercy days to be the best cooperative DPS player I can be. I always ensure my Supports are okay and that I am in range of their aid if I ever need it so they aren't forced to sacrifice themselves for me needlessly.
02/16/2018 12:40 AMPosted by Lights
When a support is able to heal along with countering their main counters then balance falls apart.

This game not about countres.)
Tank mains just grab popcorn and watch while the others fight.
02/16/2018 12:48 AMPosted by SwagMaster
Tank mains just grab popcorn and watch while the others fight.

They always do it, even in game. Like reinhardt holding shield to cover empty space. I'M HELPING. But they have always option to deal damage or nullify damage.
Everyone hates DPS mains because a minority of them feel as though DPS's are the star of the game and should be more OP. This is a minority but they're pretty vocal through complaints about Barriers, whining about Orisa all the time or DF Matrix but they mainly go after supports. Unfortunately there will never be a time where all supports are equal. During Dive Meta's Ana is always gonna be weaker than the rest and kind of zen. But this doesn't stop DPS mains from calling every meta support hero OP af and asking for a nerf. Mass rez Mercy was pretty weak but people complaining about their riptires being undone caused her rework in the first place.
02/15/2018 09:54 PMPosted by Fish
02/15/2018 09:51 PMPosted by siennarena
She wasn't balanced, lol. Though now she can be semi-useless depending on the skill of the player.


Well, this is exactly what I am talking about. Statistically, before her rework, she was, in fact, balanced.

Sometimes used, never a must pick, but not a terrible choice either. But... People complained like so, and now here we are.

People are complaining about Moira now. Zenyatta is likely to follow. And so it goes.

If you think having the ability to revive 5 fully-healed teammates is balanced I don't know what to tell you. The reason she became a must-pick after the rework was her health regeneration during ult that allows her to stay in battle actively healing, the heal output and (before) her quick speed that pretty much made it annoying for hitscans to take out. Basically heal the team and stay alive longer than any other healer. But they saw that left her in an even more broken state and now she is in a spot that is do-able but much less efficient. She's still the best healer for defense though.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum