Whats with all the people that say Moira has no lock-on?

General Discussion
02/19/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Evilroy
I'm pretty sure you should have to lead it like all the other projectiles zen uses rather than just sweeping in the general direction of a hitbox and mashing e. Also, wheres the cooldown for this? Easymode amirite?


Did you not see the screenshots I posted? The Harmony and Discord orb hitbox to cast is one of the least forgiving in the game. Even Zarya's beam is more forgiving than the Harmony/Discord orb.

Where's the reload on Moira's M2 then?
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Not comparing to Symmetra's at all.

I'm asking why people still deny the fact there's a lock-on?

It's nothing like Zarya's. If your crosshair is off the enemy on Zarya you'll do no damage to them (Surprise surprise), the same is not true for Moira.


The damage will linger for like a second before breaking off, and a full charged zarya beam has a thicker.....umm beam? So it hits a bit outside the crosshairs


It doesnt linger. You are thinking about Symmetra's beam, which gets 1 last tick in before disconnecting. The visual effect lingers until the next tick where you miss, but no damage is dealt.

If you sweep Moira's beam rapidly from one side to the other, you notice that you get 0 or 1, not 2 ticks of damage.
Moira's beam is similar to Zarya's fully charged beam. I don't play much of either, but the aim I do with Moira vs the aim I do with Zarya is much more similar than the aim I do for Mercy. Mercy I just have to get close-ish to their player model, with Zarya I have to actually keep my beam on them and track them, the same thing applies for Moira.

If I could put Zarya's circle crosshair on Moira's beam, I'd put my money that the outer edges of Zarya's default crosshair would be close to the wiggle room Moira has.

Also, Zarya's high charge beam takes a less aiming than her uncharged beam, and her charged beam does more damage. Moira's only does 50 damage, and heals her for 30 which as a Zen player you should know that her self-heal is the same as if you put a Zen orb on someone. If you can't calm down for a few seconds and out-burst 30 damage, then we might have a problem.

If she uses her orbs in tandem, that's when she seems overpowered, but how would one balance that? Have her orb do less healing? Then it isn't a good substitute for her to push out as she goes to recharge her primary. Have it do less damage? Maybe, but it doesn't hold any incentive using it for damage anymore. As it is, it's already I use my heal orb more than my damage. I only use my damage orb to help a big push by doing chip damage. Not to mention, just move away from it to prevent you from dying. Yeah I know this is harder as Zen, but it can be done.
02/19/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Luca
02/19/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Evilroy
I'm pretty sure you should have to lead it like all the other projectiles zen uses rather than just sweeping in the general direction of a hitbox and mashing e. Also, wheres the cooldown for this? Easymode amirite?


Did you not see the screenshots I posted? The Harmony and Discord orb hitbox to cast is one of the least forgiving in the game. Even Zarya's beam is more forgiving than the Harmony/Discord orb.

Where's the reload on Moira's M2 then?


Hey man, I'm just saying. You're all up in arms about Moira over here, but you've got no problem with zens d/h. Who cares if you have to get the hitbox if all you really need to do in game is wave your reticle at the target and mash e until it connects? You don't get punished for missing, theres no ammo or cooldown, no real range limit... Sounds to me like zens most useful ability is pretty easymode.
02/19/2018 09:12 PMPosted by Evilroy
Hey man, I'm just saying. You're all up in arms about Moira over here, but you've got no problem with zens d/h. Who cares if you have to get the hitbox if all you really need to do in game is wave your reticle at the target and mash e until it connects? You don't get punished for missing, theres no ammo or cooldown, no real range limit... Sounds to me like zens most useful ability is pretty easymode.


I'm just going to say that if you play Zenyatta by mashing discord orbs every 0.1 second, you're not doing !@#$. Changing targets discord is on rapidly is the worst thing you can do.

I'm not against Moira having a lock, I'm asking why people deny it's there.
02/19/2018 08:56 PMPosted by Luca
was asking why people deny it's existence.


because it's not technically a lock on, it's works more like a huge beam with a poor visual representation in game.
The could have easily made the graphics match up to Moira aim requirements but odds are that would have been more distracting FX clutter. Do we really want a wide spot light like beam that odds are is wider than her ULT beam?

So they went with a vapor like thing that moves around with in her aiming "zone" but it's not really locking on. You don't call Reapers shotguns an autolocking weapon being they hit with in a huge circle, Moira is the same but with just different in game FX.

It's very much like how a dual clutch transmission in a Porsche is not an automatic transmission, even if it can seem like it to a person who doesn't understand what's going on.
02/19/2018 09:16 PMPosted by DeadLamb
because it's not technically a lock on, it's works more like a huge beam with a poor visual representation in game.


I could say the same about Symmetra's beam, that doesn't make it true.

"Symmetra has a huge single target beam with a poor visual representation"
The hitbox is fairly large (especially close up) but it doesn't lock, lock would linger for a time, Moira's disconnects as soon as her cross-hair leaves the hit-box range.

Now personally, I wouldn't be against them reducing the size a little, or at least making the hit-box consistent and removing the forgiveness at close range but eh. Either way, no it's not auto-aim, no it does not latch on like a Sym beam, and yes it requires tracking.

And now I see who made this thread...nevermind.
02/19/2018 09:18 PMPosted by Luca
I could say the same about Symmetra's beam


and you would be wrong being SYM has a true lock on weapon.
This is not even a real debate being it's not an opinion or anything based off real life physics or whatever. It's just simple in game rules.

SYM has a true lock on beam.
Moira has an rather wide aiming zone for lack of a better term and an in game graphic that moves around with in that zone that looks like it's lock on. The FX of it doesn't mater really, only that the player she is shooting is with in her wide circle that counts as a "hit". Keep a player in the circle the game keeps seeing it as her weapon is hitting the player. Still not a lock on..
This is a very strange issue to even be taking about, being it's so cut and dry.

[--------] anything with in the brackets is seen as a hit.
[----x---] and X moves around to make it look more interesting in game, but the in game rule of anything with in the brackets is a hit has not changed at all. "Oh look!! The X moves!! It's a lock on!!!!!!". No, the game rules don't change due to the FX we see, the hit/no hit rule is independent of the in game FX.

In game it looks like a lock on, while playing like a fuzzy large aiming "zone".
02/19/2018 09:14 PMPosted by Luca
02/19/2018 09:12 PMPosted by Evilroy
Hey man, I'm just saying. You're all up in arms about Moira over here, but you've got no problem with zens d/h. Who cares if you have to get the hitbox if all you really need to do in game is wave your reticle at the target and mash e until it connects? You don't get punished for missing, theres no ammo or cooldown, no real range limit... Sounds to me like zens most useful ability is pretty easymode.


I'm just going to say that if you play Zenyatta by mashing discord orbs every 0.1 second, you're not doing !@#$. Changing targets discord is on rapidly is the worst thing you can do.

I'm not against Moira having a lock, I'm asking why people deny it's there.


I'm not saying you need to change discord targets rapidly, I'm mocking the fact that you don't like how Moira's attack is perceived, while playing a character that has, as a primary ability, targeting that requires you to wave your crosshairs at a target until a big blue/red target with a "press e" notification pops up, then you press e. I'm also intentionally mis-perceiving how aiming on Zen works, as a satire of your failure to understand how Moira works, while simultaneously being obstinate about my understanding to fully emulate the experience for you.
Because technically, it doesn't.

When Zarya uses her primary fire she projects a hitbox in the form of a very narrow tube. If that hitbox collides with your hurtbox, she deals damage. As soon as your hurtbox stops colliding with that hitbox, the damage stops. It's like Link's Infinite Sword Glitch in OoT/MM

When Symmetra uses her beam, she projects a tether that latches on to heroes. Once it latches on, she deals damage. 0.5 seconds after the conditions for connecting stop being true (angle from the crosshair, range) she disconnects and the damage stops. Same for Mercy but she doesn't have an angle condition and her beam lasts 1.4 seconds.

When Moira uses her biotic grasp she projects a hitbox in the form of a very wide (and long) tube. If that hitbox collides with your hurtbox, she deals damage. As soon as your hurtbox stops colliding with that hitbox, the damage stops. Sounds familiar?

I mean, if Moira's biotic grasp locked on like Symmetra and Mercy's beams, her "accuracy" wouldn't be tracked. But it does, because her beam is a far more forgiving (with a far lower DPS) version of Zarya's.
02/19/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Luca
The Harmony and Discord orb hitbox to cast is one of the least forgiving in the game
hahahahaha what

There's literally a slider for it lmao, you can actually mash the button, hold it down on console or bind it to something like scroll wheel so you can never miss while moving your aim quickly

Get outta here
02/19/2018 08:27 PMPosted by Terry
Because the lock on is so negligible to the point where it's not really a lock on.

With those same eyes people should be able to realize that the "tracking" required to hit things with Moira is so negligible to the point where it's not really tracking. If doing damage with Moira takes any kind of effort then you better have some kind of really good excuse.
02/19/2018 08:27 PMPosted by Luca
02/19/2018 08:26 PMPosted by CamKitty
People played her and have eyes


Nah, I think they're just in denial.

This is a beam without lock-on https://prnt.sc/igr4sq

This is Moira's beam http://prntscr.com/ih5sgy

See the difference? One does damage while your crosshair is completely off the enemy and the other doesn't.


Actual mechanics vs animation. It LOOKS like a perfect lock on. It FUNCTIONS as a fat beam. Most of what you are hitting and getting hit with are squares and triangles and stuff. Check out early development stuff.
02/19/2018 08:35 PMPosted by Zaydar
It's that guy who made the earlier Moira nerf thread with as many bad arguments he could think of.


He has 250 posts in less than 2 days complaining only about Moira so yes, he is
Because you didn't stick to your teammates and call out on a moira that isn't healing her teammates
02/19/2018 08:29 PMPosted by astro
You still have to have decent tracking


decent tracking = missing literally 80% of your shots as Soldier 76
You think people in this game are ever going to admit they cant aim?

No. They’re going to keep up the illusion that Moira’s beam is like Zaryas. Which it most definitely isn’t. They want to believe the hero they play actually takes some kind of mechanical skill, no one wants to admit to the fact they play an EZ-mode hero.
02/19/2018 09:14 PMPosted by Luca
I'm not against Moira having a lock, I'm asking why people deny it's there.


because if it were not there (and behave like a zarya beam), she would be pretty much useless...
her dmg is lower then winston and only "locks" on one target...
also, would be much harder to get your healing juice back up and thus create a possible severe healing downtime when you run out of healing.

last thing:

as almost everyone has already stated here, she does not have a lock-on (symetra has a lock on), her beam is softlock.

02/20/2018 02:41 AMPosted by Edsoulman
You think people in this game are ever going to admit they cant aim?

No. They’re going to keep up the illusion that Moira’s beam is like Zaryas. Which it most definitely isn’t. They want to believe the hero they play actually takes some kind of mechanical skill, no one wants to admit to the fact they play an EZ-mode hero.


my aim is pretty awful, i miss most shots when i play zarya or soldier or mccree, i dont have problems with ana though.

the thing is, moira has a more forgiving tracking primary fire then zarya has, true.
but that is pretty much balanced because the dmg is so low.

if you want to not make her "ez-mode" and remove that soft lock, you would have to noticably up the dmg she does with her beam, more then zarya does without charge because moira cant get more energy to deal more dmg and her beam does not connect to multiple targets like winston does.

edit: removing the softlock completely would also remove her ability to deal with fast flankers, which is what her whole primary fire is all about...

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