Protoss Discussion

Aug 7 Myco's Guide to Lower Leagued toss players. THIS GUIDE HAVE BEEN UPDATED for LoV: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20768797113?page=1#post-7 I've been mentoring many lower league toss players and I've decided to write out a guide about common problems I noticed/things most people need to work on. Note: this is a guide intended for bronze/silver players mostly, so you may disagree with some points here and there, but I believe its easier for new players to understand the game first before looking into deeper strategies/micros/etc.. If anyone thinks that there is anything this guide is missing, you are welcome to point it out and I'll gladly add it. _________________________________________________________________ 1.) The Basics 1.1) Probe Production Perhaps the biggest problem I've noticed among lower leagued players is that they don’t make nearly enough workers. Generally speaking, you should never hold your probe production until you are around 80’ish probes. The key to a powerful army is a strong economy, which is powered by a lot of probes. Don’t worry about how making too many probes is going leave you without enough army, unless you’re going for some rush builds (k4g for example),there is never a time where lots of workers are gonna hurt you. You dont need to make worker non-stop past early game, but you need to remember to chrono boost out a pair of worker once in a while. 1.2) Chrono Boost Chrono boost is another important thing that most low league players miss. You should never save up chrono boost off 1 base unless you are getting an important tech soon. Toss production and research are fairly slow so chrono boost is essential to keep yourself ahead in a game. The importance level of things that needs to be chrono boosted are as follows (imo): Warpgate tech (prob most important tech, worth saving up chrono for)>Extended Thermal Lance/Psi-Storm>Other Upgrades>Robo/Stargate Units>Probes>Warpgates (Late game when you have spare). Of course you need to use early game chrono boosts wisely. Usually you should chrono out your 11th, 12th, 13th, and 14th probes. After that if you do not require a super fast warpgate you can maybe spend another 1-2 chrono on workers, but save at least one for warpgate. In mid-late game once your on 2-3base, you can feel free to chrono anything you need out fast. It will help a lot to get some vital upgrades out. 1.3) Supply This is yet another common problem. Players tend to either make too many pylons thus wasting valuable resource early on or get supply blocked and have their production halted. Supply block at a bad time can easily cost you the game. It is quite hard to not get supply blocked at all during mid-late game. But I'd suggest that every time you goes through 1 production cycle of units (made some units from your production buildings) add 1 pylon for every base you have and maybe a extra one if you’re going supply costly unit like Colossi. Early game though, a good time to drop your pylon will be: 1st pylon at 9 supply, 2nd at 15-16, third at 22-24, 4th at around 30. This should allow you to stay ahead in supply early game without wasting much resource. 1.4) Production Buildings 1 Protoss base can support a maximum of 4 production buildings continuously making units. So you should not have more then 4 production building when you’re on 1 base. If you are going high tech units such as Colossi off of 1 base, you usually can only support continuous production off of 3 buildings (1 robo 2gates). More importantly, once you have expanded add more production buildings so that you can effectively turn your resources into army. You don’t need another 4 buildings up as soon as your expo is up but get them gradually as you saturate your expansion.Mycophobia320 Aug 7
Aug 31 Protoss Micro Tips Note: If you are plat or below, macro is still MUCH more important than micro. Focus on just having more units than your enemy, rather than controlling the few units you have. General Micro Tips: 1. Are your zealots in front of your stalkers? 2. Are your low-health units in the back of your army before you attack? 3. Are your immortals attacking armored units? 4. Are your colossus attacking clumped up units? If the entire enemy army is clumped, than focus on attacking light units (marines, hydras, zealots) 5. When defending your ramp, A. Are your units in a concave at the top of your ramp? B. Are you cutting his army into bite-size pieces? C. Are your zealots on hold so they arent attacked by the units beneath your forcefield? D. Are your stalks far back enough to not get hit by the units beneath the forcefield? 6. Are you moving units under fire to the back of your army? 7. You can somewhat kite-attack marines, roaches (assuming they dont have movement speed yet), and zealots with stalkers 8. You can forcefield the enemy ramp to prevent him from reinforcing the units that are at his natural expansion. 9. When chasing down an enemy, pull your zealots back to prevent kiting (from maruaders, roaches, hydras) 10. In order to bunker, cannon, or spine crawler bust move your army just outside the range of the static defense and put them on hold, then, attack move your colossus (with the range upgrade) into the static defense. 11. Put health bars on, so you can see which units are low health. 12. Psionic Storm does not stack, so do not throw down more than 1 storm in the same place. 13. Before an attack, put your units in a quick concave with zealots in front to help get a concave sooner when the attack begins. 14. Colossus can abuse high ground by attacking units on the low ground and then moving back once the units move in to attack the colossus. 15. stalkers can chase fleeing units. 16. Do you have functional control groups? (For example, I have 1 as my army, 2 as my sentries, 3 for HTs or collosus, 4 for nexuses, 5 for tech, 6 for observer) 17. Remember to move your HTs back once they have stormed to prevent them from running into the enemy army. 18. Make sure your sentries aren't tanking damage for stalkers. Your sentries are spellcasters, not dps dealers or tanks, so once your zealots are dead, MOVE THEM BACK. 19. With the interceptor upgrade, carriers can launch their interceptors and move away from the enemy. Rinse and repeat. 20. Spread out your dark templar to force the enemy to react to different locations. Also, the enemy will need multiple sources of detection in order to counter your harass. 21. Blink can be used to blink back the stalkers with lowest health to the back of the army. Also, Blink can be used to get a faster concave against the enemy. Additionally, You can ensure that all your stalkers will blink to high ground or low ground by right clicking to the point where you want to blink FROM, hold shift and click B at the place where you want your stalkers to blink TO, then right click past that point which will make the stalkers move thus giving the other stalkers room to blink (hold shift the whole time). 22. Moving your sentry forward with guardian shield popped can cover your zealots with guardian shield, which will help them last a lot longer against ranged units and especially marine armies. 24.Morph your HTs into archons if they are out of energy or just got EMPed. You can also do this with DTs, if they have mobile detection. 25. Before I engage I try to attack in multiple locations to distract my opponent and catch his main army off guard. 26. Bring a probe with your army and make pylons along the way as you move out. Protoss versus Zerg Micro Tips The goal of micro versus zerg is to allow the majority of your units to attack while only a few zerg units can attack. 1. Are you keeping your units in a ball to prevent speedling surround? This changes when facing infestors. Spread out your army to prevent money fungal growth chains. 2. Are you attacking through constricted pathways? (attacking in the open makes it harder to forcefield and you need more forcefields) This changes when infestors are out (then you want to attack in open pathways, while spreading your army). 3. Are you cutting his roach army and hydra army into bite size chunks with ffs to prevent most of them from attacking? 4. Have an observer ahead of your army so you know when and where you are going to have to ff. 5. Make sure your colossus are attacking lings or hydras. 6. Make sure your army is not attacking broodlings, but actual units.yaegz289 Aug 31
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3h HOW DO I DELETE THIS If a protoss tried to talk to a terran with ADHD would that cause the protoss discomfort?BLEACHKILLZ1 3h
12h PvT: A difficult early-game push So in PvT, I've come across a particular 1-base push (although the Terran player expands behind it) that is somewhat difficult to defend against. Of course, seeing no early expansion or Reaper (usually a marine chases away your scouting probe) should clue one in, but it could be a Cyclone push or marine rush. Anyway, the attack involves a Medivac drop of 4 to 6 marines and a Widow Mine in your main. This in itself is a nuisance but not too hard to deal with - however, at the same time, a Liberator swoops into your natural and starts raining plasma bolts upon your workers. What's the best way to defend against this, especially if there's also the risk of some other kind of 1-base push? I tried this myself, playing as Terran, and it's incredibly painful. Though my opponent pulled their probes to avoid the Widow Mine, they didn't spot the Liberator and I ended up killing almost 40 probes with it, and just to add insult to injury, the Widow Mine detonated on their Oracle! They had a 2nd Oracle that was being a pain in my main, but pulling workers and having a few marines at home made sure it couldn't do much damage (and in hindsight, I realised I could have easily built a Viking to help chase it away). ADDENDUM: I'm in Diamond 3, as were my opponents.Kit6 12h
1d I cant expand. At a loss. Scenario - attempting to expand. 1 Gate before expo, got a forge as well. (Dreamcatcher ) PvZ Zerg expoes, I expo. Im thinking okay Im good, I scout some Ravagers, I already had a Robo so I immediately start chronoing Immortals. I get to 4 immorts, zealots , adepts. Im defending a 2 base all in, expo falls because I just dont have enough units against a zerg (macro hatch in main, saw in replay) I finally push him back. I expand again, retaking my nat. at this point im at 8/8 workers , 6 on gasses. I had to pull a lot earlier to stay alive. by this point hes saturated his nat. (replay) he doesnt have a third base. Then he sends the next and final wave. Ive killed a lot of units up to this point. ravagers, lings . I lose all but 1 of my 4 immorts. I lose the game. How does that make sense? why do I have to kill infinity units but If I lose a few key units its game over? Time to go stargate every game? because doing the same thing every game is so much fun.Deathwing7 1d
1d Protoss Questions. As one who has returned from a long -long- hiatus (2 years to be precise) I wanted to poke around and ask; How is my favorite race holding up? What is the Protoss Meta? How does Protoss fair against Zerg and Terran early/mid/late game? Is Adept/Phoenix/Oracle harass still a good early game strat? (In terms of poke, anyways). Thanks in advance. ^_^Legion3 1d
2d most noob-friendly splash damage Hello there, I have recently gotten back into playing some ladder games. I quit for a couple of months, and I'm currently at low-platinum level. aka 'huge noob l2p'. I've noticed that my standard tactic of 'make some archons, make some zealots' doesn't really work against marine-heavy terran plays. I'm pretty sure that I need some kind of splash damage, yet I don't really have the micro to be using storm or disruptors, do you think I should try to improve on using those abilties or look for a more 'a-move' comp? Advice is greatly appreciated.infinity2 2d
2d Dark days ahead I'm starting to seriously question the balance team. Terran have the mobility, a much stronger midgame. They are almost impossible to harass between the PFs and Turrets past the early game. But they want to give them even more mobility with the Medivac boost. They want to reduce our ability to counter a doomdrop with a Feedback nerf. Seriously I just had a game with 8-10 canons protecting my main, but not a problem, all the Medivacs went through. And then they just die to bio. I rebuild, he knows there are canons, but he does it again, not a problem. They are nerfing our lategame, buffing the Terran lategame. The midgame stays Terran favored. What will be left ? Only cheese ? Frankly, even that... a Terran playing safe will die to nothing early on. Since the Marauder buff, we already have to delay our tech in order to survive the first stim timing. And then they have their Liberators, and you need to go to a complete different tech route to counter that. And then the lategame is not even that Protoss favored, because of those freaking Ghost which remove all shield and the usefulness of all of our gas intensive units (Archons, HT, Sentries). They say Carrier imba, but I never have the opportunity to make one. They are useless in small numbers anyway. And all that with perfect scout while the Terran just need to scan. I'm not even talking about all the proxies. They want to nerf "game ending moment", well they can start by removing the WM. There's no game ending moment like a WM drop. Well except Ghost maybe. And they are buffing both of those, the WM with the upgrade and the Ghost with the Feedback nerf. Yes the Colossus and Sentry are good changes, but that's hardly a buff compared to everything else. We should be thankful to have a QOL change with the warpgate maybe ? I like the Tempest change, but I hope it won't only be seen with cheese. Because at this rate, that's the only thing which will be left. They want to go through all this ? If they don't buff our early midgame, Protoss will be a dying race. We already are very few in Diamond, lagging at pro level... It's depressing.Papanarbre10 2d
3d Players with best Micro? There are many great players like Zest. Which players are the best at micro and using spell casting.Rich0 3d
4d Random Blizzard should show you the race of the player when they go random. It is an artificial advantage, and it is a hard one to overcome for at least protoss, I can't speak to zerg or terran, but I think their first 2 minutes is basically the same right now. For protoss right now, your pylon placement is different in each matchup, and it can make a big difference in the game. I.E. not going low ground pylon, but the random player gets zerg. Or going low ground, but getting versus a protoss or terran, which makes you very vulnerable to harass.Jmike1 4d
4d Liberators What composition are you guys going for pvt where the terran has a decent amount of liberators mixed with a bio army. (standard mix between marauders and marines).Jmike2 4d
6d how to deal with mass bc is there any way for protoss to deal with max supply army of 3/3 bc with yamato cannon? cause ive had no luck.Avisuara11 6d
6d Protoss Questions Hi there! I switched from Terran beginning this year, and after practicing a lot I'm now feeling more and more confident with my Protoss play in general and I think the race is everything I was looking for. With the goal of improving, I have a couple of questions that hopefully you can answer (or point me in the right direction): 1.The Chargelot+Immortal+Archon is a very powerful composition without any doubt, but I'm a little curious about the percentages of each unit in the army. Of course it depends a lot in the situation, but how much chargelot/immortals/archons/ should I make? Like for example, in PvT, if the guy makes a lot of Libs if I don't have enough archons/stalkers my entire army gets completely destroyed. 2.In PvT, do I just skip building colossi and go straight up into Archons/Stoms? Because I notice that they just get sniped in the first battle by vikings and stalkers don't do well against stimmed MMM. 3.The general perception of Stalkers is that they are very cost ineffective in straight up battles, but if you "micro them" they are amazing for harassing. Basically I want to know what should I do to micro them effectively, what's your opinion on this topic? 4.On PvP battles, I'm supposed to focus down the Immortals, right? 5.How do you hold vrs Terrans dropping everywhere? Is it better to invest in cannons or just have Stalkers babysitting in your base? I guess you can also counterattack with DT's since dropping is very micro intensive for the Terran. 6.In PvZ, I like opening with Robo because Immortals are life, but I need to scout a lot to detect early any muta switch. I think that everybody prefers opening with stargate, but I think that gives the greenlight to Zerg to go straight up into mass hydras (like every game in plat). 7.Can you share what's your most important thing to keep in mind in every matchup? Sorry if my questions are a bit too out there. I generally overthink everything, but I'm really open to feedback. En taro Adun!IronVictory3 6d
Oct 13 testing forum Where is the testing forum?bgdaddy0 Oct 13
Oct 13 Artificially slowed protoss It is way past time that they stop the artificially slow protoss. That meta has run its course and has no place in the current meta.Jmike0 Oct 13
Oct 9 Cannons Too Weak or Am I Missing Something? I usually stick to Nexus Squadron Strike, but a while back I tried some solo. It was PvP and I tried to tech straight to Carriers as soon as I could. I made a few Zealots and Stalkers for defense and when my natural was up and running I check for a 1 base all in. It was and I didn't have the time nor the production to build an army. So using every mineral from 2 basses I made as many cannons as I possibly could only for the enemy zealots and stalkers to steam roll them. I was first afraid he would run right past them (I had maybe 1 or 2 carriers which had just finished) but he just sat there and took down every single one of them. He tried to surprise me with a one base, I scouted the attack and spent all the resources I had (from 2 bases) on my cannons yet they couldn't stop them. Cannons can't move yet they seem less cost effective than units which can move. It was such a disheartening experience that I haven't played solo since, but I thinking about playing it again. Is there some basic property of Starcraft II which I don't know about that makes this all make sense? Please don't tell me not to make Carriers because they're the best unit in the game and I've seen pros win with them as well as FFA players absolutely obliterate everyone in their path.EzComeEzGo6 Oct 9
Oct 8 Replay : improving my toss https://drop.sc/replay/8597432 I'm aware of some of my mistakes, like the fact that l make stargates too late, but l feel bad for making this building because carriers are dirty and l don't want to use them for ethical reasons. I actually should have lost this game because of that but l somehow managed to save the day with blink stalkers. Still, I'm sure there are countless other mistakes, and this is a fairly long macro game so it'll be easy to point out I guess. Any tips ?srav4 Oct 8
Oct 8 !@#$ sc2 Pawnsuxs2 Oct 8
Oct 8 Bring back mothership core. Bring back mothership core.ZergIsOp0 Oct 8
Oct 8 Bring back the Mothership core I can't beleive it was removed. It was an essential part of every protoss build and my favourite unit. Bring it back. Also: The shield generator just sucks and in my oppinion is a joke of a building. Who came up with this? I can think of no logical way to use it.ChingGao6 Oct 8
Oct 5 How to punish PvP 1Gate expand I though that 2gate expand is the standard opening for PvP. However, i my current league (low plat) many toss 1gate expand and wall of natural, especially when its on the ramp. Suppose i scaut this with the defeault scaut probe and I open the standard 2gate, how to best punish this? Is the full blinkster allin the only way?TyphonVexCZ5 Oct 5
Oct 4 Commander Versus Commander Game Mode What StarCraft 2 Versus mode needs is Commander's versus other Commanders. Sure it's fun to play up against a.i. and complete map objectives. But it would be a lot more fun to go up against other commanders.TemplarsVoid1 Oct 4
Oct 3 Nerf the Versus Starcraft 2 Development Team Versus Mode has become very boring let's face it. The same old crap units have been being used for quite sometime now. There is sadly no new unit content whatsoever. And the really only exciting thing that StarCraft 2 has going anymore, is the Commander Coop gameplay mode. Minor tweaks to this and that unit, really just doesn't do it. Blizzard come on... StarCraft 1 multiplayer is still far more balanced air and ground wise. Why don't you just add some better air units, that can actually hang up against Protoss air... the Terran Valkyrie and the Zerg Scourge. In late or early games, it shouldn't matter which race can win the game. What matters is that each race should be balanced straight across the board, despite whichever time the game is in.TemplarsVoid1 Oct 3
Sep 27 UPDATED Myco's Guide to Lower League Toss Hello everyone, Truly, its been a very long time since I wrote the original Myco's Guide. I am glad to see that it has helped many new players over the years. Nevertheless, It is clear that the guide has become outdated at this point following two expansions. As per many requests found on the original guide, I decided it is a good time for an update. (Jump to the last post for cheesy stuff) Due to real life commitments and shifts in interest, I have barely played much StarCraft2 in the past 5 years, nevertheless, having recently got back to playing a bit more, it does seems many of the core mechanics and ideas of the game remains unchanged. Therefore, I believe I will still be able to offer useful advice to help new players improve their game. Having recently played my way back to diamond, I do notice a general decline in the overall mechanics of the players I face, so that will be the emphasis of this guide as it was the case with the original guide. Many section of the guide may remain the same, that is because these ideas and mechanics really have not changed since WoL. Do note that I cant say I am very knowledgeable with the new Meta so I wont provide too many build order suggestions, I do believe that as longa s you have a solid mechanic you should be able to make to at least Plat with ease. 1.) The Basics 1.1) Probe Production Perhaps the biggest problem I've noticed among lower leagued players is that they don’t make nearly enough workers. Generally speaking, you should never stop your probe production until you are around 80’ish probes. The key to a powerful army is a strong economy, which is powered by a lot of probes. Don’t worry about how making too many probes is going leave you without enough army, unless you’re going for some rush builds ,there is never a time where lots of workers are gonna hurt you. I get a lot of question on whether having 80 supplies in probe will leave enough room for an army, the answer is yes. With warpgate toss is able to quickly replenish losses as long as resources are not an issue, which is far more important than outright having a bigger army. That said, some late game build that focuses on crushing the enemy with high end unit like carriers may benefit from having a bit more supply to play around with. You dont need to make worker non-stop past early game, but you need to remember to chrono boost out a pair of worker once in a while. 1.2) Chrono Boost Chrono boost is another important thing that most low league players miss. You should never save up chrono boost off 1 base unless you are getting an important tech soon. Toss production and research are fairly slow so chrono boost is essential to keep yourself ahead in a game. The importance level of things that needs to be chrono boosted are as follows (imo): Warpgate tech (prob most important tech, worth saving up chrono for)>Extended Thermal Lance/Psi-Storm>Other Upgrades>Robo/Stargate Units>Probes>Warpgates (Late game when you have spare). Of course you need to use early game chrono boosts wisely. Usually you should chrono out your first 2 pairs of probes. After that if you do not require a super fast warpgate you can maybe spend another 1-2 chrono on workers, but save at least one for warpgate. In mid-late game once your on 2-3base, you can feel free to chrono anything you need out fast. It will help a lot to get some vital upgrades out. Remember multiple bases gives you even more chrono to play with. 1.3) Supply This is yet another common problem. Players tend to either make too many pylons thus wasting valuable resource early on or get supply blocked and have their production halted. Supply block at a bad time can easily cost you the game. It is quite hard to not get supply blocked at all during mid-late game. But I'd suggest that every time you goes through 1 production cycle of units (made some units from your production buildings) add 1 pylon for every base you have and maybe a extra one if you’re going supply costly unit like Colossi. Early game pylon drop should be around 15, 21 and so on. I have not fully caught up with a good BO and mostly playing from intuition, but there shouldn't be a shortage of BOs you can use. 1.4) Production Buildings 1 Protoss base can support a maximum of 4 production buildings continuously making units. So you should not have more then 4 production building when you’re on 1 base. If you are going high tech units such as Colossi off of 1 base, you usually can only support continuous production off of 3 buildings (1 robo 2gates). More importantly, once you have expanded add more production buildings so that you can effectively turn your resources into army. You don’t need another 4 buildings up as soon as your expo is up but get them gradually as you saturate your expansion.Mycophobia7 Sep 27
Sep 21 Protoss is the best race P>Z P>T T=Z Protoss is the best race. Edit: Ok I'll write some more. I main zerg and when I start up a game and decide hmmm what units should I go this game... lings, roaches, blings... oh hey SAME THING every game! When I play secondary race protoss hoollllyyy so good, at the beginning of game I can decide ok what kind of cool stuff can I do to roflstomp my opponent? 4gate? what kind of 4gate- fast korean 4 gate?, fast regular @18 4gate?, conservative @24 4-gate? 3gate expand? LOL cannon rush? DT? 2 stargate VR? 1 star phoenix? proxy vr? FORGE FE into 2 robo? forge FE into double stargate? blink stalker rush? OH MY GOD SO MANYYYY i wish i was better at protoss =[ my favorite PvZ build is-- cannon contain into nexus before gateway, then 2 stargate void rays. LOL? mass roach to try to break contain? nope too many cannons and forcefield ur ramp. NYDUS? nice try. mass even more roach? too late void rays on the way. and if somehow you manage to break thru grats I'm on 2 base with dark shrine and fleet beacon almost done.isospeedrix35 Sep 21
Sep 21 how do you counter the early mass rine/tank? Zealots get ate alive by terran's ranged attacks. They are dead before they get to the marines. Stalkers get ate alive by them.. Sure i can easily counter them late in game, but those early 20 marine pushes against my.. 5-6 lots cream me. Scrabble8 Sep 21
Sep 21 How many observes to make against Lurkers I've been trying using 3, which has not been enough. And no I won't be using oracle, since stalkers are long dead before using reveal. What I think I need is a scan, but on the other hand really don't want to pass such op unit.escobari9 Sep 21
Sep 20 how would you counter muta balls as toss ive had a few games in which the zerg gets a sizable force of mutas but refuses to engage my army, he just flies around and attacks distant bases or attacks only when i leave to attack. What do you do if that starts happening?Avisuara15 Sep 20
Sep 20 Gateway Count Hello, Plat toss here with a question about gateway counts. In PvT I struggle getting enough gateway units in the midgame. I open with a gate expand into tech followed up with gates 2 and 3 as soon as I get 300 minerals without interrupting probe production. I go up to 6 gates at natural saturation of minerals and I go to take a third. When do I need to add gates 7,8 and 9? At half saturation of third, full saturation or earlier?GenSwift6 Sep 20
Sep 20 Genuine Question: How to play PvT as P?? >My PvT was 60% before the Marauder patch, now it is 40% >I'm 4300-4500 MMR with 60% PvP and 50-60% PvZ; obviously there is something about PvT holding back my MMR >I really don't understand what P is supposed to be doing in this matchup: --T army is far stronger/far more mobile --Very difficult to harass T (scvs are sturdy and killing them really doesn't do much to the T economy with T macro power/mules; I have wiped out entire lines of SCVs and seen almost no eco impact in the replay) --Very difficult to attack PF's --Very difficult to do damage to a T base (takes a long time to destroy production) --Can't base trade a T --Pro games do not resemble D1/Masters games so they are not much help >The only way I ever beat T is through proxy double robo or if I'm playing a turtle clown who lets me expo the whole map and get the armada >The ways I lose to T are numerous: --Simultaneous widow mine/hellion/liberator attack first thing in the game (pretty much guaranteed to do damage or end the game on the spot with a good widow hit or hellion hit); because of this it is hard to really ever move anything out because I need stalkers in place to defend; if my opponent is a noob sometimes I win by an all-in counter because he forgets to macro behind it --Get rolled by a fast bio push; either game ending or take out my third or nat --Get rolled by fast tank/bio push; same as above --Get hit with with a double or triple attack; my main army isn't even enough to take the big attacking force, which isn't even his full army --Get sieged by libs >Disruptors seem to be the only effective thing P has to combat T with, but they are countered easily by tanks/libs >To me the matchup seems to be; P has weak/expensive units that are low in number, and numerous base weakness (probe lines, pylons, multiple drop areas) and is looking to land novas and storms; T has strong/cheap units that are high in number/very mobile, and strong base qualities (tanks, bunkers, strong scvs, turrets, PFs) >Watching pro games I see alot of what I describe; I really don't understand what Blizzard wants P to be; it does not make sense that T units are stronger than P units; P units are supposed to be expensive and strong, but they are just garbage (Colossi are completely useless in PvT, for example)llllllllllll3 Sep 20
Sep 20 Effective ways of dealing with 1-base T as P. Sh*t is so damn hard to hold even when scouted early, no ammount of defence seems to be able to keep up with the reactored cyclones just pushing ones stuff over like nothing, can't get immortals out quick enough to matter, can't opt to one base urself as toss even when you see it coming because you'll just end up lightyears behind. I got so infuriated I decided I just simply tanked my P mmr out of spite. Then I got even more furious, played Terran and simply reaper all in the sh*t out of all the one-basers, worked nicely, outagress the agressors, but that's no soliution to playing as Toss. Yes, I'm a useless gold scrub, nonetheless som advice would be nice. Also. Haven't seen a single zerg on ladder today, anything vs Z is my best matchup. Where all the zerg at? Gimme some ladder points dammit! Have tried searches on google, seems to be very little on how to deal with this lame strat. Heeeerppp prease! SwiftRageChaseLeChic6 Sep 20
Sep 20 Colossus In Pro Games Just a quick question that I don't understand: Why do pro gamers like States or Zest not build Colossus anymore? Was that unit nerfed? (I have not been in the loop since Heart of the Swarm and I am back now) I can't help but feel even two colossus would help against the bio balls from Terran and especially zerg. I'm only plat, but I like the colossus and then get phoenix to counter the mutas. Can someone please explain to me why I am wrong?Shadow6 Sep 20
Sep 15 Zealots Vs Adepts? In pro games I see Adepts as harassers but occasionally I see Zealots. When I go ground units other then Stalks(since they can shoot up) I also find my self stopping and thinking which of the two I should mass. What is the difference and practicality of the two units and when should I use them? En Taro Tassadar!Plasmoo1 Sep 15
Sep 14 Strategic Recall It feels very awkward for its recall size. What do other people feel about Strategic Recall having charge rather than waiting for recall all game long? For example, Strategic Recall having 4 minute cooldown, but every Nexus' strategic recall is independent of each other. With a max charge of 2 Recalls. Or... A Nexus can use up to 3 charges, with no cool down. But also you deplete it's usage. Or... A Nexus uses 350 Shield, as sacrifice in order to use Strategic Recall. Or, as alternative, Amount of shield determines size of strategic recall. - A minimum of 100 Shield required, size of 2. - 200 shield = size of 3 - 300 shield = size of 4 - 400 shield = size of 5 Or... Have the Nexus multiple ability size choice, 50 Mana for size 3, 100 Mana for size 4, 150 Mana for size 5, and 200 Mana for size 7. Because, at the moment, the strategic recall is completely useless in late game. Air units stack, so you can basically recall 16 carriers at one shot, while you can only recall like 8 stalkers at most with a radius of 2.5Solo5 Sep 14
Sep 12 Guides, Build Orders and more for Protoss ! What’s up guys ! I’m a French YouTuber & Streamer. I play Protoss in master 1 (sometimes in Low GM) and I started to do many english content and i wanted to share it with you. I’m focus on guides, tutorials and detailed analyzes mainly focus on Protoss. I try to give as much advices as I can. Schedule: Guide and Build Order each 2 weeks and Bronze to Master epiodes each Monday :) Here is some of my videos (all are in English with commentary an my amazing French accent :D) : General Walling Guide (most recent): https://youtu.be/TfaPTWNY4ek Bronze to Master series with low APM and easy Build Order (I do one episode each monday): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7fQH898xunI1cMqSSvaVz6-4PfE72l_6 How to hold a 12 Pool: https://youtu.be/-blIn1nmAFY PvX - Easy Beginner Protoss Build Order !: https://youtu.be/EuHX0l68pDQ PvP - My 75% Winrate All-In ! Zealot / Archon: https://youtu.be/PowSLj0Zz6U 7 Advanced Micro tricks: https://youtu.be/-uLWLLSh5yU You can find my channel here: https://www.youtube.com/zukaingame My life for Aiur, my love for you fellow probes !zuka15 Sep 12
Sep 8 Can't find my protoss detector on the minimap For the millionth time can protoss detector be more visible. Here are some suggestions. Where ever the detector is located it will have a red or blue color to identify exactly where it is during multiplayer or any other color that is easily visible. So if the radius of the detector is 9 range it will have a red or blue color for the entire diameter of the detector on the minimap just like the terran sensor tower range is visible. But unlike terrans sensor tower is visible to your opponent the protoss detector won't. I put them there and I almost always lose track of where my detectors cause their so small and invisible. Also, detectors should have their own F key button. Like F3 or some other number.monster6 Sep 8
Sep 8 Counter to Photon Cannon Turtle God, how much I hate when they go mass cannons around their natural expansions! They turtle like this until they make mass carriers and swarm my entire base! Anyways on how to counter this?HeyAngel26 Sep 8
Sep 5 I will never... ... listen to Terran's whine again. When they said that BCs are trash, that they have no lategame, blablabla, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Sure BCs don't have siege range and such. I already lost a few time to BCs, but I also won a few time against them. So I already suspected that they weren't nearly as bad as them claimed they were. But I never had this : https://drop.sc/replay/8215311 First of all, I did some test. There is no Protoss unit Supply efficient against BCs in a straight up fight. They claim Stalkers and Tempest wreck them... they actually don't. Voidrays are even worse since they get OS by Yamato. The only cost efficient way to beat them is with a similar strat than Stalkers vs Cyclone. Use the fact that Tempest have a low attack speed and BCs a fast attack speed. But you pretty much need to go through the entire map to do so. But what if the Terran has half a brain ? Yamato the Tempest (fun fact, 2 Yamatos kill a Tempest even with full shield regen between the 2 shot) and jump out of there. Attacking the Terran ? Look at this turtling ! A freaking PF on the ramp of his natural ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Even on his expansions, how do you attack a PF with Turrets with less than 50 supply ? There's no "don't let them get there" like with Carriers. Normally a turtling Terran can be dealt with Tempest, but Tempest are actually bad against what they are suppose to counter. I used Storm to kill the SCVs (yeah mass repair) and GS because it impact a lot their autoattack... not enough. Worst of all, they can get 150+ supply of unit with mass OC. If you try to take the entire map as Protoss, you need mass probes... which is really bad against a maxed low SCV count. This guy, I think I could beat with an harass tactic (with my main army, nothing short of that works). But again, if he actually was good, he can Jump on my army, or even in my main base, I just cannot contest that (I tried to save one of my expansion with recall, that's pretty much when I lost the game). Seriously, when are the Tempest getting buff ? They are bad against Carriers and BCs. What more do you need to see how trash of a unit this is ? Attack speed, speed, damage, shooting while moving... I take whatever. BCs, PF, Sensor towers, Turrets, MULEs. And ofc, it's impossible to scout before you see the BCs, nice Turret ring... If someone actually has something that works against that, plz let me know. Right now I'm thinking mass Hallucination to make them waste Yamato shot... but that's not what I would call viable against a good player. Other than that, mass turtling trying to take more bases than him ? With the Tempest sitting behind a wall of canon/SB. Still a !@#$ty strat really.Papanarbre5 Sep 5
Sep 4 What Protoss dreams are made of I was just thinking about Pylon depowering building and wondering what would be the equivalent for Zerg and Terran. For Zerg : Supply in the red : lack of willpower from the Overlords. Difficulty to keep the swarm under control. From a random latency every time you try to give order to a Zerg unit, to random Zerg units becoming berserk and attacking anything they see. For Terran : Lack of supply : ammunition becoming scarse, attack speed slowed down for all units. Deep red, even the food lacks, bio units start loosing hp and movement speed. Fuel reserve becoming low, some mech units just stop moving from time to time. No need for Terran or Zerg to cry, it's just my imagination doing some overwork.Papanarbre2 Sep 4
Sep 3 Colossus & Tempest Ideas Colossus & Tempest ideas Just wanted to give a few of my ideas. They may be bad or need work but I would list them for the community. Some ideas could have been suggested before so I apologize in advance. Colossus: What if you change the colossus attack to that of Victor in League of Legends? The initial attack would land followed by a delayed burst after a short while doing more damage than the initial attack. Of course changes to damage, attack speed, ect.. would half to be made. Like slower attack speed, lower initial damage but larger delayed burst damage. Making the colossus a unit you half to micro against. This could make for interesting engagements, and zoning of fights. Hoping to make the colossus the anti ground unit so the disruptor could be reworked to fit a different role. Possibly whatever Protoss is lacking for ground robotics units. The colossus seems to be the right unit to give lots of damage too since it has so many counters but not reliable damage. Tempest : This unit could fit the role of support better for Protoss air. Give the Tempest a support ability tied to its attack. Of course you would half to adjust damage attack speed accordingly. Just an example the Tempest after attacking could leave a cloud like the Corsairs Disruption Web ability, but instead of not being able to attack at all maybe just reduce range to 2 or 6 or 8 ect.. Reduce the attack speed by a lot, and give it possibly a mini storm damage that is small but has + damage to massive units. Another possibility is give it and AOE that has stacking damage. Say up to 3 to 6 times then caps in one area. So after it attacks it leaves a small AOE that deals small damage unless stacked. It could be a flat amount + to massive or mechanical. Though I would worry mechanical would be to harsh on Terran. Maybe another Supportive ability possibly a slow, or a stasis like effect. Of course adjusting the Tempest stats especially the attack speed. Possibly making these castable abilities instead of tied to the normal attacks. Or the attacks land where they initially engaged the enemy allowing the shots to miss. It would be nice to have this unit be able to zone and effect battles by just a few of them in the mix with other units. Instead of massing this unit. Just one random idea on a new unit. I thought it would be cool to have two stalkers transform together and merge like Templar into Archons. The unit could loose the blink ability and give the stalker a better late game the stalker lacks. Of course it would cost more supply and possibly minerals gas to transform. Tech wise this unit needs to be late game so it needs high tech buildings to build. Needs a research off of whatever high tech building possibly the robotics facility to be able to build. This unit could get what the stalker lacks late game possibly mid game as well. The idea is to get some better Protoss ground units for late game options instead of AirToss. These are just ideas, I would like to see what you guys think. Of course I would like to see some Terran and Zerg changes as well.DeViaToR0 Sep 3
Sep 2 Defender's advantage in PvP I'm starting to wonder if there should be a Static D just for PvP. Or giving the SB the ability to drain the shield of the opponent. Anything to balance Warp in in this match up. Ofc it should be done in a way it can't be abused offensively. Something only unlocked when near a Nexus for example. Similar to fast Warp in. Maybe not the best idea, but I really think something has to be done. And I really really really want to know why SB doesn't work on lifted units. The balance team has recognized how difficult it is to expand in this match up. And yet they keep this massive flaw in the already small defender's advantage that we have. Queens can heal lifted units, Medivacs and SB can't. Frankly at this point I don't care giving a small advantage to Terrans. Every PvP feels like a cheese. Even taking your natural expansion feels like an economical cheese.Papanarbre0 Sep 2
Aug 31 tempest change what if tempest attack damage was increased to 200 base but attacks hit target point instead of unit, means attacks can easily be dodged by moving units. so attacks could be fast enough to hit large units but slow enough so that every other unit can easily dodge or something.Avisuara5 Aug 31
Aug 30 Best drops? Currently the weakest part of my game is drops. What do you suggest is the best way to kill enemy workers? Do you recommend different for different races?Rich4 Aug 30
Aug 19 Marauder whine I need to vent. The marauder is a disgusting unit. They have an insane firepower, with their bonus against armored they take down building in a hearbeat. They have mobility with stim (even more with medivac ofc) and crowdcontrol with concussive shell. I know that Sc2 is a difficult game, but there's nothing that makes me so angry than loosing to an army composed for 90%+ of one unit type. Like if there was no strategy involve. Going up a ramp into an army supported by SB ? NP ! Not that I lost there, but the trade was good enough for the Terran. It's supposed to be a specialized unit, but with a minimum of micro, they can kill Zealot. Our only early game unit ok against it, is the Immortal, but we can never match the production. Terran have plenty of versatile units, but even there "specialized" one are strong in situation they are not suppose to be. I make 3 robo, sentry to cut the army in half (and prevent this half to flee), Zealot to tank the damage... But no, I still see wave after wave as if they cost nothing. As soon as I can sort of fight head on, thx to the medivac they drop everywhere, I loose my Robo in a blink. And ofc, because I try to pump out Immortals, I have very little map vision. When I finally bring Disruptors, I'm so far behind, the bio just run into the nova, doesn't matter there's always more. It was a strong unit before. Why make GS almost useless against them ?Papanarbre7 Aug 19
Aug 14 tempest rework suggestion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51cfnkJXj44&feature=youtu.be https://youtu.be/51cfnkJXj44 (alternate link) 1:39 and 2:40 are the best examples of how the changes would affect tempests. yall think this might be a good idea? if not what things do you think could be done to the tempest to fix right now? or maybe make the current tempest weapon an ability that shoots at a certain point for heavy damage but is slow and has marker showing impact location like ravager and then give tempest other secondary weapon for auto attack?Avisuara2 Aug 14
Aug 14 Tempest vs Carriers? Which do you prefer. Carriers or Tempests. Does it depend on the opponent you are facing? Composition your opponent has?Rich1 Aug 14
Aug 11 PvT Before the patch, PvT was by far my best match up, now it's 10 points lower than my PvZ. True enough, I've gone from Low diam3 to mid diam2, but still, I wonder how much I need to outplay my opponent to win. I really don't understand the early game. Before we have splash, Terran has both the firepower and the mobility. With sentries, I can make up for the firepower, but the mobility ? If I'm not exactly where I need to be, the damage done will be impossible to recover. For example, if I put my army between my natural and third, it's the worst possible thing. They can snipe my third before I'm in position, if they hit my natural it's even worse, they won't fight my army, they will run into my base, stim/stutter step themselves to death but by the time they are all in red health, the damage done will be insane, tech building, probe, you name it. They can avoid my army all game, and since all of their units are glass canon, they kill a Nexus faster than a fleet of Corruptors. I've seen enough Nexi fall just because they stutter step near it while being chased by my army ! Counterattack ? A few siege tanks/liberators are enough to stop an early Protoss. Later I have a ring of observers (still don't understand why almost no Terran make a Raven BTW), but how do you scout very early on (about when you take the third) ? I have an Observer to see the army leave, but it's not everything, they can hit at least 2 places, not including the doom drop into the main. And I have so few units at this point I can't afford putting zealots out on the map. It feels so much based on luck it drives me crazy. Well not that much luck actually... Terran have scan. I'm turning into a Terran whiner, help ! ><Papanarbre4 Aug 11
Aug 9 Have the Nexus turn into the Mothership I was playing Nova Ops and the mission where you have to stop the protoss mothership and it made me wonder why the animation the Nexus is doing (the apex is opening up) is not in the multiplayer, and it got me wondering. So, when an expansion is mined out, Terran and Zerg command centers provide value. Terran orbitals drop mules / scans, Zerg hatcheries build units. The Protoss Nexus can chrono and recall. As Protoss mines out bases chances are the need for Chrono is diminishing as upgrades are getting to 3/3 and recalling to save a mined out base is not that important. It seems the further the game goes on, the less necessary the inherent value of the Nexus is. The mothership costs 400 / 400. If it only cost 400 gas, but consumed the Nexus in the process, that could make for some interesting salvaging of mined out bases. Any player that wants a mothership prior to a base being mined out they would need to build a Nexus. The mothership production may need to be quicker to factor in Nexus building + mothership. Bliz could make a pretty cool building animation using assets they already have. 1. 0 - 33% - leave as is, blue light. 2. 34 - 66% - The animation in Nova Ops 3. 67 - 100% - Spawn a small mothership core floating around the Nexus that ends by pulling up the Nexus and forming the mothership around the core. It also makes sense given both Nexus and Mship both have recall now.Richo8 Aug 9
Aug 7 Beginner Protoss Tips? Hello! I am a silver league protoss (from last season, I haven't reinitialized my rank yet), and I was struggling to execute any strategy cleanly, and I always end up with 2000+ money/gas and nowhere to use it. Additionally, I am confused about how to focus on your strategy when the enemy does something to disrupt it (example: going for a 2-base all-in and my proxy pylon keeps getting scouted and destroyed so i lose most of my forces). Any good build orders for a beginner would also be a big help as well, thanks! :PLucario17 Aug 7