Protoss Discussion

Jan 25, 2016 Skytoss So protoss are very strong in the sky, I feel that their sky forces are so strong it rules out taking other builds. Mass archon was a cool build, as is mass immortal etc, but there is just a strong need for a counter to the void ray ball of death. Idea: Void rays "heat up" a target, and for every void ray focused on a single target, that target takes 2 less damage per void ray, with a cap of 1 damage per tick per void ray when the target is fully overloaded. Why? 2-3 void rays can still focus fire, and get decent results. In fact, you can buff individual void rays by a large chunk of damage to counteract this nerf making void rays excellent in small teams, but not so effective in large groups. Results: Void rays go down in popularity. With fewer void rays in the army, the battle switches to the ground and sky instead of just the sky.Shaithias5 Jan 25, 2016
Jan 25, 2016 Protoss Changes What would you like to see? Here are some thoughts/observations of my own as well as what I've been hearing from other people. There is certainly a strong terran/zerg voice, but protoss is becoming the pincushion for everyone. Protoss needs to begin solidifying the problems in order to see solutions. Zealots - Currently there is no real reason to make them other than to dump minerals when you have no gas. They serve no real utility and you really don't want to make them as your first unit other than to plug your wall considering how poorly they fare against other T1 units. A lot of the games people wait for their Cybernetics to finish before making their first unit because of this. I think zealots should have higher base speed/ more durability or damage. The charge buff was a nod to how lackluster they are, but with the new LOTV units from zerg and terran (like lurkers and liberators) they are still less than ideal. It would also help distinguish its role vs the adept. Anti-Air - In BW protoss had the corsair, which has AA splash damage. In SC2 protoss AA is very lack-luster. It's sad that phoenixes need a fleet beacon and an upgrade just to have their base range increased. Look at the vast amount of AA that Terran has, and the number of SPLASH AA that terran has: widow mines, liberators, and thors. It's easy for zerg to overwhelm stalkers on the ground and how hard protoss has to work trying to defend a flock of mutalisks or engage a zerg mid-late game army with brood lords. Fleet beacon upgrade for phoenixes needs something more - maybe splash? Carriers/Tempests - Compared to how expensive they are, it's sad to see how easily they are gunned down by a small squad of marines/hydras. Tempests shoot way too slowly; actually most protoss units have attacks that are very slow (compared to stimmed bio units or zerg units), leading to cases where other races can shoot down expansions later on and run away leaving the protoss helplessly scrambling back and forth. Defense - The mothership core and PO have helped protoss with early game defense but past that it's very difficult to prevent bases from getting sniped with just a handful of zerglings or bio. Protoss don't have creep or very mobile units to help defend against this or other defensive options like PFs. On top of everything, protoss doesn't have things like widow mines/liberators and lurkers to very cost effectively defend bases. High Templar/Storm - Storm does laughable damage. Zerg ground forces and bio most of the time shrug off storm damage. High templars have laughably slow movespeed and almost always die after casting a storm. Higher storm damage may help somewhat compensate for the colossus nerf and reward players for getting good storms off/dodging them. Forge upgrades - Gateway units were made weaker on the basis of WG. Now that WG has been nerfed to the ground and then some it seems fair that in the mid-late game they should be stronger. Better upgrades might be one way to accomplish this. This would also help relieve protoss' frustrating dependence on tech. Expansions - A bit related to defense above, in LOTV taking expansions is much more important. Protoss simply does not have very great defensive options to protect their bases past the 3rd. Additionally, protoss doesn't have very cost effective ways to attack opponent bases. A handful of zerglings or marines or a single liberator (or countless number of options from terran/zerg) can absolutely destroy a mineral line with ease. There is no way that protoss has similar options economically unless the opponent makes a major blunder. Making 800 minerals worth of zealots is a very way to harass enemy bases; 400 minerals buys you 16 zerglings, which can absolutely wreck havoc. A single turret/spore+queen can shoo away even advanced harass tools like the dt/oracle fairly easily. The mothership core/PO was a small nod to this conundrum, but it is not enough when you're spread across the map in LOTV. A final word on adepts: so ZvP protoss has 40% winrate, I assume a lot of it on the back of adepts considering how much whining there is. If it weren't for this unit imagine how much worse this number would be considering the overwhelming strength that zerg has in the mid to late game. Protoss has become a shell of its former self. Then there is still the problem of late game with lurkers/ultras/brood lords/vipers/liberators en masse. It's almost as if protoss is almost forced to finish games early.Nara5 Jan 25, 2016
Jan 21, 2016 Protoss 1v1 Map Veto -- Morning Guys -- I am just starting to play a little SC2 again, used to play quite a bit of vanilla SC2, but just stopped when life got busy. I know the game has changed quite a bit, and TBH I still don't know what some of the units do, but, I am looking for Map Veto suggestions for 1v1. Any thoughts would be appreciated, just really looking to avoid the maps that will make me angry as a protoss player Cheers RaggyRaggy5 Jan 21, 2016
Jan 21, 2016 Shield visibility request. Can you add a blue color to the active icon of the protoss in underbar to represent shield levels? its green when full health and turns red and yellow when damaged, but its hard to see and determine shielding levels at first glance. Perhaps adding blues and teals and maybe even some whites would help that.Shaithias0 Jan 21, 2016
Jan 21, 2016 shield upgrade vs armor upgrade shield upgrades are somewhat uncommon. However, in my mind they seem to be more effective than armor upgrades. Yes, they cost a bit more than armor upgrades, but it also applies to air units, structures, and archons. Plus shields regenerate, increasing their usefulness. Assuming you play a macro game where you will make a variety of air units, ground units, and archons, can somebody give me an argument for why the ground armor upgrade should take priority over the shield upgrade?Chris2 Jan 21, 2016
Jan 21, 2016 Meta Game for Protoss Hello fellow toss. I have been out of the meta for a while now (since the release of lotv) and would just really appreciate a general rundown of how the game has changed from hots to lotv, including new strategies and things like that to employ against and along with new units for every race. New comps for new counters or play styles? I've tried to just catch up by reading older posts but they're all very specific. Anything I can get would be appreciated.BaoTsetung0 Jan 21, 2016
Jan 21, 2016 need help pvt turtles I disparately need help with terrans who turtle as protoss. I cant seem to brake their defense due to raven's drones, siege tanks, unable to scout because turrets, liberators, and widow mines. With the change in shields to immortals they cant really brake any defense anymore especially since normally the duration of the shield ends before they even tank 200 damage.Porkcchop7 Jan 21, 2016
Jan 20, 2016 in the mind of a protoss fighting a Zerg What happens inside your mind my dear protoss players? well while fighting a zerg. I cant say cuz i am a Zerg.bossman2 Jan 20, 2016
Jan 20, 2016 Yet another Noob help thread... I've been reading threads on here trying to find answers to my questions, but there are still a few questions I have and couldn't find answers to. I'm a terrible player, but tried to give what little advice has worked for me when I could. So here goes nothing: When do I expand? I watch pro video's to see what other protoss do, but it makes no sense to me. Sometimes they'll just stay on two bases seemingly forever, other times they'll have like 5 bases. When should I be expanding? So far in most of my games, I either open nexus first, or gate into nexus. Then I'll build another base once I feel I've stabalized, with at least a couple gateways, an advanced production facility, and enough of an army to at least have a chance of holding off an attack. Am I building too fast? Too slow? I've also been trying to just go 2 base, then building for an engagement and follow that up with an expansion. My APM is terrible, how do I get it faster? I mean, my APM is like around 45. I'm generally fine as long as their APM is only around like 90, but once they break triple digits I'm just at a loss and get out played. How do I get faster? Or do I just have to accept that this is where I'll stay? Does anyone have tips one when/how to scout? I don't need like uber pro advice like I see in the video's, where he'll send in his probe, barely see a refinery, click it to see how much gas was mined, and leave knowing exactly what's going to happen. However I NEVER probe scout against anyone but protoss. Even then all I look for is for proxy pylons, and to check for early game cheese. Against terran even if I can get into their base, I have no idea how to read it. What it means with no gas, one gas, two gas... I go in an see they've got a barracks, maybe they're building a factory, maybe not... I don't know what any of that really means. Against zerg early game the only thing I know to check for is a pool, but by the time my probe gets there I usually will have needed to already make a choice, and if they went fast pool, I'm not really sure how to stop it anyway, so I really just try to crono out whatever gateway units I can, and pull probes to fight. If I go robo I'll pump out like 4-5 observers and try to scout everything, and leave some in the path between us to see when they move out, and scout expansions and army locations as well as production facilities. Against protoss and zerg it's not bad, I can tell what they're doing by their building choices. Against terran unless I directly see their army, I have absolutely no idea. So what am I looking for? Also, what if I don't go robo? Or should I always go robo? So when to scout, what to scout for, with what do I scout... I'm terrible at it. How do I get better at harass? Most of the times I try early harass on a main or first expansion it gets shut down easily. I'm ok at harassing further away bases later in the game, or harassing after a large engagement, but I see people sending in like 1-2 adepts, or maybe a zealot and 2 stalkers and dealing damage. If I try that all I end up with is dead troops. Or they'll harass with warp prisms or oracle, but by the time mine can make in there, they have an army that can easily shut it down. When I do try to harass it's either focus on mircoing my units, or keep building back home, but either way, one falls behind. How do I do both at the same time? I've been running into a fair amount of terran players who build turrets all around their base, I know that's a large mineral investment, but I can't seem to take advantage of that fact. They shut down my scouting, shut down DT's, so I pretty much can't scout or harass at that point. Nor can I get high ground vision so I'm left at a severe disadvantage trying to push my 'resource advantage'. But I know if I don't harass, don't scout, I have no chance of beating a terran. But I also can't figure out how to punish that either. WTF do I do about liberators?!? If I'm facing only liberators, and in small groups, my blink stalkers can normally take them out before I lose too much. If they set up like 4+ or bring bio with them, they just roll over pretty much every comp I can think of to even try. While I know I've got a plethera of problems I need to work on, for the most part I can hold my own against protoss, and do well against zerg. But I get shredded facing terran at all. Any advice on how to beat them is appreciated. My last question is how to handle harass. I feel like I do pretty well against earlier game harass, as least as much as I can. Against reaper harass I pretty much just try to get my probes away while waiting on my stalker to pop and rally to it. Zergling rush I either have a wall that completely stops it, or if they hit early, my probes can usually do ok holding the zergling off until a zealot pops to help them. Cannon rush I always scout my main base, and if it's not in my main base it's rarely more than annoying. Proxy gateway I also usually can scout, and...Hyper6 Jan 20, 2016
Jan 19, 2016 How to win with economy? I am currently in gold league (plat in hots). I have a little problem: when I do 1 base "rush (stargate, 4/5 gateways, maybe robo) in PvT or PvZ I win nearly every game. But if I expand against terran I lose every time. I have 1.5x value army, but it dies to his smaller army, because he has stim, and I didn't have enough AoE damage. Against zerg everything goes well untill he gets lurkers. Every time zerg gets first lurkers out I just lose. I may have more bases, bigger army, detection and I still lose. Do I have to use mass air or disruptors agains them? I can't get mass void rays so fast, or can I? So, what should I do against maxed stim-terran (MMM+tanks/liberators)? What should I do against lurkers?Dentosal7 Jan 19, 2016
Jan 19, 2016 The protoss double nerf What are your thoughts about it? Here's my opinion: I kind of have mixed feelings about it... It could be OK for terran bio. But the problem is whenever protoss gets nerfed, nothing gets nerfed from Z and T. First the PO problem, if it needs to be removed what would be the compensation? Yes, that's right. Buff to gateway units. And what do we get in this next patch? 1. Nerf to PO 2. Nerf to core gateway unit adept 3. ??? 4. Profit. But it's OK... We've learned to deal with it. We'll just go back to WoL-HotS style and tech to colossus -- oh wait. Colossus is trash now. We have to use disruptors that were forced to us with the colossus being nerfed to the ground. Oh, I got it, we'll now tech to carriers! Wow what a joke such a useless unit dies to 2 vikings/5 hydras because it has no HP. Great capital ship we have! We had a ~8 month period in which we didn't have to make tier 3 units to survive because we had a good gateway unit... That's enough. We felt too much like terran for too long and dayvie didn't like this. Let's get back to being useless. Maybe if they weren't nerfing the adept in every patch during beta we might've had a chance... P.S. To all terran whiners: let's see how the winrates will turn after the patch. Just waiting to see liberator and ravager nerfed to the ground like colossus, oh wait they are no protoss units, they are immune to nerfs. ^An attempt to whine as protoss and being biased because you know what they say: you fight fire with fire.PowerUser4 Jan 19, 2016
Jan 18, 2016 WPs are fine I think other races finally have a bit of a taste of how it feels like when protoss had to defend against mutalisks/boosted medivacs for years. WPs are nothing compared to the ease that mutalisks have bouncing between bases or the speed and utility of medivacs. It's not like terrans have liberators and zergs have invincible nydus worms now. Oh wait. Sadly protoss always ends up being the scapegoat for everything. It's just that the other races are much louder/better at complaining. Protoss has to hyper micro everything now. Lurkers/liberators do the work on their own and almost never ever trade unfavorably.Nara5 Jan 18, 2016
Jan 17, 2016 Please make it that unit shoot the carrier Please make it that unit shoot the carrier and not the inteceptorstalski10 Jan 17, 2016
Jan 17, 2016 What's the HOLD command for using GRID hotkey I have been using the GRID system for hotkeys but for the life of me cannot figure out the HOLD command for units. Anyone?commonbile3 Jan 17, 2016
Jan 17, 2016 Cinematic Question. In the cinematic at/towards the beginning of the Protoss campaign, does the Protoss Archon teleport away with the Ultalisk, or do they both self destruct/die?SentinelZ9 Jan 17, 2016
Jan 15, 2016 why keep closs the disruptor fills it roles. You rarely see anyone with closs anymore. why not just get rid of it and give us something to help support our tier 1 units?dozer14 Jan 15, 2016
Jan 14, 2016 New basic/standard opening builds now? I played very heavily in the WoL days and some of Hots, and I'm returning to play a bit of LOTV and we start with 12 workers now... what are the standards now? I'm talking about like 9 Pylon, 13 Gate , 15 Gas , 18 Cyber Core etcTwentyOne1 Jan 14, 2016
Jan 14, 2016 starcraft: lecacy of the void. starcraft: lecacy of the void. an internal error. Please wait a few moments and try again. if this error continues, try restarting the battle.net desktop app.khang1 Jan 14, 2016
Jan 14, 2016 Playing Karax is Dumb without Arranged Team All the other commanders are able to carry the map from level 1, even on Brutal difficulty. With a 50% price penalty, about all Karax can do for the first 4 to 8 character levels on Brutal difficulty s cannon key locations on the map while you try to make some Colossi, and hope your all can Carry the map. All of his units are strictly inferior until they unlock their special abilities, which doesnt' even start happening till level 4. I have calculated that 3 normal zealots are 2.25 times as effective as 2 normal Zealots, due to the way math really works in the game. This means 3 normal Zealots would still beat 2 of Karax' immortal zealots just barely, so that even with the special ability, Karax Zealots are actually slightly weaker than just paying for normal zealots. so far, he has proven to be the weakest, most boring, and most frustrating commander to play. His army is: least mobile. least flexible. most expensive Weaker (due to having less money to spend on upgrades). His call-down spells are weaker. Direct damage is bad in general. It basically needs to "blow up the world" in order to be worth it. All of Vorazun, Artanis, and Raynor's abilities are one-shot game changing. Karax calldowns are annoying to use, because it's already frustrating to figure out how to make an army of anything besides pure zealots and energizers, and then you have to aima abilities at enemies which are often in motion, which means a lot of the shots are going to miss, even if you "lead" the enemy a tad to try to make up for it. In the seven games I've played as Karax, 3 times an ally has left the game immediately when they saw I was playing Karax. Obviously the players do not like having to Carry someone who is forced to play like a Bronze cannon noob due to crappy units that cost 50% more than their fair price. His best unlocks are level 3, 6, and 11. "Yay. I get to play even worse than before just make nothing but cannons and buy shield upgrades and a total of 3 additional static defense upgrades, because we all know his units suck. Also, he's literally unplayable on the new map they made on Brutal difficulty, since both players need their armies at the locks, and the game spawns 2 kill waves each time you try to take a lock. Since his army is awful, and you can't cannon everything anyway, it literally feels like you are playing at a pure disadvantage at all times. I've played on that map twice already and lost it both times, and my ally is complaining that I don't have enough army, and I'm like, "I've tried making his army, and it sucks so bad that it dies instantly anyway". On one map, I managed to get 10 zealots or so and a couple energizers, after cannoning two paths, but I hadn't yet cannoned the third path, which naturally led to my expansion. So naturally my expansion comes under attack...by 10 Zealots and 10 Stalkers. I had spent all my money. Since I don't have the reconstruction unlocked for Zealots, they just died on the spot. Moreover, even if I had the ability, I still would have lost the fight, and the computer would have had probably 10 stalkers left alive anyway. This problem doesn't exist for any of the other commanders. Even Zagara, who I consider to be the next worst low level commander, is easier to play than him, and once I get the infinite baneling spawn with her, that's going to be piss easy. I don't see anything on Karax unlock list that actually makes me feel like playing the character is worthwhile.Wade2 Jan 14, 2016
Jan 14, 2016 Nation Wars shows Protoss definitely not OP Especially on Prion Terraces! ;)BenTobith7 Jan 14, 2016
Jan 14, 2016 i need some pvt help whats the best unit comp to use I have play robo with ht, stargate, mass adepts, blink robo ht, and any build that I see people use on streams. I just cant pull it together with pvt. I need a protoss that has a good record vs terran that can help.dozer8 Jan 14, 2016
Jan 14, 2016 PVZ advice This is by no means a balance or Zerg OP thread. Just curious if anyone Protoss players have any tips against Zerg. Im having the worst time against them no matter what i do. Any Strategies or tips would be greatly appreciated, EXCEPT, proxy Stargate, Dark Templar rush, and Carrier rush. Any advice?Tallywaka21 Jan 14, 2016
Jan 13, 2016 2v2 Team Strategy Protoss and Terran I recently started playing a strat with a friend, we are protoss and Terran (me). We have now been winning consistently without losing a single game (in Diamond) with this. Basically I wall off hard (double buildings against Zerg just in case for banes) with marines, a few marauders if the comp is needed, very quick tanks medivacs and a few turrets. I take two bases, he takes three. Usually this is easily defendable. Meanwhile, I am upgrading bio (or just marines) to 3/3 and he is getting upgraded carriers. As soon as I have my upgrades or if he has enough carriers (usually at least 6-8) we push. Literally nothing has been able to stop this. Even early ling pressure and reapers has not, as we both play conservative opening (cannon in the mineral line etc.). Does anyone have any ideas on what might break this comp? That is essentially, MMM with 5-6 tanks and carriers. Or any ideas on how to improve, or if a certain comp might be better? Thanks all. DanDtatheizAN1 Jan 13, 2016
Jan 12, 2016 PvT Help I am at a loss as to what to do in this match up. Can anybody just lay out a summary of what I should be doing in this match up? Maybe a basic build order? Every Terran I face seems to go reaper expand into a bio push that comes around the time Stim Medivacs and maybe 1/1 finishes.PotatoLiSK11 Jan 12, 2016
Jan 10, 2016 Tal'darim Mothership for pvp So I know how futile it is to try to get Blizzard to balance a usable Mothership, but my idea is: if we can create a simple solution, a replace x with y scenario, they might have enough excuse to try it. Is there any reason why some of the Tal'darim abilites can't be used in a pvp built Mothership. Ability details: Black Hole: the aoe stun. Since this has every problem the old Vortex ability had plus some, I'm not suggesting the unit has this ability in any capacity for the current state of Starcraft. Blink: would probably have to replace Mass Recall. If this would go on, I'd suggest the Mothership Core retains Mass Recall and it's replaced by Blink when it upgrades to the full Mothership. It would add survivability to a unit infamous for dying almost instantly, but it probably wouldn't work with the current Cloaking Field ability. Since some players are already raging about Tier 3 units being unstoppable ever since Ultralisks got 8 armor, it probably wouldn't be good to fan the flames farther. Maybe a consideration if the balance team wants to do away with the Cloaking Field ability. Thermal Lance: the reason I wrote this topic. The Disruptor already does 200 damage to units with at least 45 shields, and both abilities only affect ground units. The damage is still probably too high and would need to start out at 100 or 50 damage instead (unless changes to energy or a cooldown are implemented). However, I'd really like to see something like this ability over the Photon Overcharge ability lategame. The flaw I see with this ability is the condition of a 200 energy Mothership blasting one target area with four of these shots. My plan: replace Photon Overcharge with the Thermal Lance ability (for the complete Mothership only) and replace the 200 damage with 50 damage instead (maybe add +25 damage to bio or shields if needed) or replace the 50 energy cost with 125 energy cost instead of the damage changes. The icon doesn't even need to change. Keep Time Warp and Mass Recall where they are and consider the Blink variant if the balance team needs a mission or Blizzard wants to do a solid for those of us typing on toasters by removing Cloaking Field. It may not be perfect, but it's at least better, I hope.Zero4 Jan 10, 2016
Jan 9, 2016 Pvt help The build that I'm really struggling against is when Terran go one base all in. They hit me at 4:30 with marines tanks banshee and sometime cyclone. How do you stop this build? Almost every Terran I have been playing is using this build. I've tried putting pylons on the ramp to charge up before tanks siege but tanks out range. U can't use stalkers or blink becuz u can't get close and with no detection for banshee. If u open robo u have to catch them moving if ur not ur stuck and its Gg.dozer7 Jan 9, 2016
Jan 7, 2016 Getting wrecked by thor's Hello, so I am somewhat new to starcraft 2. I played original starcraft a bit but never seriously. But anyways, I am having a really hard time fighting players going Thors and destroying my air army. I think the Thor's anti-air damage needs a bit of a nerf. If I am able to notice one of my enemies are going Thors (I am really only playing 3v3 right now) what unit tech should I switch in to? Is there a way to still play an air game against Thors? I just consistently get owned by them.rusher4 Jan 7, 2016
Jan 6, 2016 Ulrena gold I just faced a terran who took the gold base as his expansion. By the time I caught on something was fishy, he had turrets all around his base and I couldn't get to it. I know I could have built a stargate and built up to tempest, but is there an easier way? I went templar archives and robo slightly later. I still won the match, but only because I scouted that he went one base and prepared for his banshee attack, and expanded behind it. I was able to crush his main and he GG'd, but if he didn't is there an option other than taking that entire tech path to actually do anything about that?Hyper1 Jan 6, 2016
Jan 6, 2016 Archons: High Templar vs. Dark Templar Which do you use if you want to make Archons? Why?Trufax36 Jan 6, 2016
Jan 6, 2016 Mechanic Drills #5 Mouse Mechanics(Video) Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcq8mtr_dhw In this episode of Mechanic Drills, we focus on our mouse mechanics by doing some out of game drills. The beauty of improving with your mouse is you can do it outside of sc2 and it will drastically improve your ingame game play! In this episode I talk about some of the finer details and why this is so important. Link to Rest of Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFsSKtEn_DmSmcj2TNJgvG0jE9YpDJI4R Can find me on twitter @RiskSc if you liked what you saw and what to see more be sure to subscribe!Risk0 Jan 6, 2016
Jan 5, 2016 Openings, Transitions, Compositions? So I'm kinda new to LotV and decided to start of with Protoss, but I just don't know what to do, really. What are the openings vs all three races? After I got started, is every tech path a good choice or should I focus on a specific path vs each race? What are some examples of a well-rounded Protoss army? Hope someone can help me out :)Cortez3 Jan 5, 2016
Jan 4, 2016 Protoss Build Order for a Beginner I know Build Orders are not necessarily meant to follow for to long, as most of it should come naturally and instinctively, but since I am a beginner can someone give me a basic build order so I practice and get use to the Protoss? Also, how viable of a strategy would it be to send a Probe to the natural expansion for the other player and build a Pylon+Gateways and pump out Zealots? I know it'd leave your base unprotected, but you'd think it'd pressure them enough. Educate me. How viable is it to ignore Zealots and other things and work in a streamlined way to get Dark Templars as fast as possible?tjbyrum26 Jan 4, 2016
Jan 3, 2016 LotV: Void Rays Even More Overused (Gold 4v4) With the nerfs to colossus damage, the immortal shield, and the fact that low APM players can't handle disruptors, anyone that was doing robo is now doing mass voids. I don't even scout Protoss opponents anymore--they build rays so often I'm better off saving my meager 40 actions per minute to build more things that kill void rays.Torimar0 Jan 3, 2016
Jan 2, 2016 PvT tips to noobs from noobs So I'm a fairly new and terrible player, and so far I've had a terrible time against Terran. I got a tip which enabled me to not only beat a terran, but turn around a game that was pretty much over, against a much higher ranked player (I'm bronze 1, he was silver 2). The advice was to help prevent drops, and I was told to put HT in my mineral line, and they should be able to hold until I can warp in defenses. So here's how the game went, hopefully it can help you guys to. I opened Gateway, cyber, refinery, then nexus. I did this in case I got harassed by reapers, I could crono out some adepts to deal with them. I built a few adepts to send forward to scout, got all the gases on my main and natural, warp gate research, and a twilight council. I sent shades up the ramp to find a wall off, and didn't see much, but saw he was building missile turrets around his base. I figured if he was dumping his minerals into that instead of army, I could afford to expand without being at an army disadvantage. I took a third, build probes like a mad man, and got the adept upgrade, as well as started researching storm. I built 2 HT for each of my mineral lines, so 6 total. and started massing adepts. I went double forge and started pushing out upgrades. Then I built 2 robo's, and started making observers (I really like knowing when he moves out, and maybe I'll even notice a drop before it hits). After making a couple of observers, he was knocking at my door with marine, marauder, and medivacs. My adepts died, like really easily. Photon overcharge did next to nothing as my pylons all died, and they even got both my robo's and most of the probes on my third. So with no army, and a massive bio force having it's way with me, I decided to pull all my HT together that I had in my mineral lines. I used all 6 of them to drop enough storm to cover their army. It seriously just melted away. My 6 HT destroyed his entire bio army. I warped in a few stalkers and his remaining medivacs ran away!!! I built a few more units, pushed forward a bit more to make sure I was safe, and thinking he must be hurting from that fight also, I expanded to a 4th! Started probing everything, took all the gases at every base, and rebuilt both robo's, along with going up to like 12 gateways. I built a bunch of observers and sent them everywhere to find any hidden bases, any expansions, army movements, everything. Ended up finding burrowed widow mines between our bases, and sent a stalker to kill them all. I built like 12+ HT behind this and ended up very quickly running out of gas, so I researched charge and masses zealots with the leftover minerals because what else am I going to do. Got the message my minerals were running low, so started a 5th base. Sent a probe out to build proxy pylon's everywhere I saw was safe, and warped in as I moved forward. He came at me with a bio ball, and I threw up storms and is was a massacre!! I found a 4th and 5th he tried taking and warped in a couple zealots to rush in and destroy them, then pushed in his main base, and stormed them. I ran through him like he was nothing, and destroyed it all. I found a hidden base he was building that was walled off by rocks, and started destroying the rocks. By the time I got them, my army was pretty much gone, and his bio force wiped it out, and I had no more storms. I ran my HT's away and only 4 made it, but no energy and being chased down. I ran them to the nearest proxy pylon, warped in a full load of zealots, and merged my HT. He ate my zealots, but it bought enough time for my Archon to come out. Who once again, began to make love to the faces of his bio ball. After my Archons destroyed his army, he GG'ed. First win against terran and it revolved around HT. So if there are others out there who are having problems getting wrecked by terran bio balls, High Templar with storm is amazing!Hyper10 Jan 2, 2016
Dec 31, 2015 Diamond 1 Zerg vs Diamond 1 Protoss Interesting 25 minute match between a Diamond 1 Zerg and Protoss. http://www.ggtracker.com/matches/6349751/replayHexor1 Dec 31, 2015
Dec 31, 2015 Protoss Build Orders - LOTV Hi all, i am HOTS Terran Master player on EU server. Currently i am in Top Diamond in EU hope to get into Masters soon. I played protoss not for a long time but was able to get to Platinum in HOTS. Besides the fact that i am a terran player there are some interesting things which i would like to share with protoss community. For quite some time i worked on Android tool for creating and managing build orders for Starcraft 2. You can find this tool in Google Play. Full version: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sc2toolslab.sc2bmfull Free version: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sc2toolslab.sc2bmfree This tool using Starcraft 2 economy simulation to help write optimal build orders. You can find more details on my web site which i created to support this tool: http://www.sc2bm.com/apptour On this site i already have good Build Order Library for LOTV (HOTS library is much bigger though). http://www.sc2bm.com/builds What i would like to do for this Forum is to share build orders with you. Since LOTV metagame is not yet set there is a lot of action happening in Ladder and on PRO scene. New strategies are invented. Old strategies are adapted. I hope you'll find this thread useful. Added build orders 1. PvT PartinG Adept-Oracle-Stalker All In http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20042935598?page=1#2 2. PvP Mcanning Gate Expand into Blink Stalkers-Disraptor http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20042935598?page=1#3 3. PvZ Mcanning Nexus First to MSC quick 3rd into Macro http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20042935598?page=1#4 4. PvP HerOs 2gate adept into DT http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20042935598?page=1#7 5. PvT Huk Fast Expand into Stalkers Disraptors http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20042935598?page=1#8 6. PvZ PartinG 17 Nexus into Chargelot Immortal All In http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20042935598?page=1#10 7. PvT PartinG Gate-Gas Expand into Blink-Colossus http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20042935598?page=1#11 8. PvT Gate-Nexus Adepts defense into Robo http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/20042935598?page=1#12yaRus11 Dec 31, 2015
Dec 31, 2015 I'm at a loss... multiple ones. I realize I'm a poor excuse for a player. I'm lucky to be in Gold, really... But lately the only games I win are PvP, or the opponent not trying to win. Zerg is annoying enough with Roach/Rav infesting everything (see what I did there?). But Terran I can't handle at all. How do you beat a race that can stay so far ahead of you in economy and whose cheapest unit can destroy an entire army when you basically contain them. I need to know what I did wrong. People better than me, please explain. I don't understand anymore... I was on like 6 bases by the time this eternal conflict came to an end... how was I NOT able to hold out against him??? What should I have done differently? http://ggtracker.com/matches/6352754 **Edit: Nevermind. After calming down and re-re-re-watching the replay, it's become apparent he somehow distracted me enough to COMPLETELY forget my upgrades. I almost never do that... but here it is... Still, I wasn't too far behind in them. 2-1 vs 2-2. But at 24:00, I should've attacked the expansion and forced an open engagement. Going up the ramp was stupidity...**Kaotik2 Dec 31, 2015
Dec 31, 2015 Getting smashed by any person ever I lose literally every game because im Bronze top 8 and they're Masters/Diamonds. Is there any reason to why I'm being put up against such high level players at such a low level? Its honestly taking the fun out of the game because I get absolutely smashed every time I try to play a ranked match due to me not being able to keep up with these players ridiculous micro and damn near perfect macro. The game is getting to the point where its unplayable because regardless of what mode I'm playing (Ranked/Unranked) I'm playing against impossible matchupsWikinnes6 Dec 31, 2015
Dec 31, 2015 Distruptor suggestion As we all know the Distruptor is a 1 trick pony and here is my suggestion for fixing that Nerf the damg to around 60-70 But reduce the cooldown so that they can shoot faster instead of just missing and ending the game right there. This would give the unit more accuracy and the ability to kill armies such as properly controlled bio and roach hydra lurker on creep. I hope you like my suggestion if you have any suggestions or questions please comment bellow. Have a nice day TY :)STRAFERUN1 Dec 31, 2015
Dec 30, 2015 PvT engaging a bio So I've been playing the ladder and using a lot of disrupters. Dispite landing sold shots the dps of stalkers and a few adepts can't do anything to the T bio. It seems impossible to fight the t army head on at any point. Even if there army is split they can still destroy my main force. In a few games I've been a base up on the them and they still keep up on Eco becuase of mules. The dps is so high on the bioball how do I handle thisToast12 Dec 30, 2015
Dec 30, 2015 Guys, how do you deal with aggressive T? Hello fellow protoss players! I have been browsing the protoss discussion forum and I saw 5+ PvT ask for help threads. I wonder why? Anyway, this is in no way a balance whine, I just need a piece of advice on how you deal with the aggressive drops... I have a decent winrate in both PvP and PvZ, only PvT is my worst MU. Today I played 2 P and 2 Z and 6 T. I won both PvP and PvZ matches and as I progressed further the ladder the terran tsunami began. 6 games in a row PvT, PvT, PvT........ And I've lost 4 of them to bio only players (never saw a single mech player in LotV). I'll describe one of my games below: I delayed his wall by killing his SCV with my scout probe. He came early with a liberator to harass my probes but I saw it coming and had some well placed pylons on Ruins of Seras. I used the MSC to overcharge 2 pylons and killed his liberator while it was deploying. It got like 3-4 probe kills before I pulled. By the time he came with the liberator I had began saturating my natural and had an adept based army with 2-3 stalkers. Then I added some more gates and a twilight council and began researching in the following order: blink, adept attack speed, charge. By the time adept was researching, I got templar archives and started making archons as I was banking gas. I made 10+ zealots to tank and avoid banking minerals and researched storm. I made 5+ HTs and began saturating my third. I added a robo for some observers and disruptors (most terrans can handle the disruptors because they learned to split against banes). By the time he attacked me I was maxed out and with saturated 4th + 3/3/3 ground upgrades. He had 10+ liberators overlapping in a single liberation zone and some split siege tanks. The rest was bio. He was continuously scanning my army and wanted me to engage him. After I didn't go willingly into the liberator circles and bio under them he decided to engage me. He stimmed his bio to the ramp of my natural where my army was waiting. I used the templars to feedback the medivacs and storm the bio. The bio got their life in red color. I sent some disruptor shots and engaged. My archons and stalkers dealt with the liberators and the zealot/adept killed the tanks. I attacked him and won. Now what was missing in the above story? That's right. Terran aggression. He had some kind of weird 2 base all in that hit me super late (I was 200/200 on 4 bases and 3/3/3 ground army). He didn't drop at all. So when I was maxed out I began thinking of a plan B in case my army dies. I warped in 2 stargates and a fleet beacon to make carriers in case we both lose our armies. It didn't come to that as he left while I was at his base killing chunks of bio (2+ marauders and 5+ marines) with my archon/adept/zealot. But I keep losing to terrans that are aggressive. This guy was plat and didn't perform well but I got rolled over by some gold terrans. I tried everything: cannons/pylons (MSC too immobile to cast). It appears the only way is to divide my army to different mineral lines (but pure gate is so inefficient trading against bio + boostivacs)... I read people fight fire with fire and use warp prism drops with chargelots/adepts/dts into terran mineral lines but the liberators are problematic. Any tips on how you deal with terran aggression would be much appreciated. Also I'd like to ask for advice from better players whether this is what I should do in different match-ups (altho I'm not bronze, in NA I only practice 1v1 unranked and team games, so my main account is medium plat in EU): vs Z I scout and if I see a drone going for a natuarl/third I play greedy as well and tech to adept/immortal/storm or disruptor and zealots to tank and prevent mineral banking. I often go on creep-tumor hunting with squads of observer + 2 zealots or adepts, no need to risk more. This way I free-up psi for more important units like archons/disruptors/HTs. vs P I scout and often see people making 3+ gates without having a cyber core on a single base. I get out some adepts and scout with the shade while I expand. If I spot a guy trying to all-in me with gate units, I build pylons and adept/stalker (if his army is larger than mine I cancel the nexus and add more gates). vs T I do ????????? vs All: I send adepts to cover watch towers since the shade makes them extremely mobile. I can see an army coming and save my adept with the shade ability. Here's the fault I see in my play: I'm not aggressive. Perhaps it's because my 120+ APM does not allow me to be. Ever since I was playing BW, I was the turtle style player. I want to change that. I see many protoss players making comebacks with great warp prism-adept harass. Thanks.PowerUser2 Dec 30, 2015
Dec 29, 2015 I have returned.. Hello everyone, WoL player/early HoTS player returning to the scene for LotV. For those who know me, check out my stream and say hello! Would love to catch up. If you don't, feel free to say hi anyways or laugh as I die to bronze players figuring out the new mechanics! I'm a GM protoss NA/ masters EU/KR Masters terran/zerg I used to be on teamliquid/ tlpd etc.. but I think that expired and I haven been tagged under 'retired,' lol. Definitely would love to hear your thoughts on the SC2 changes and willing to play some community games with you guys and share some laughs. What's the overall Protoss verdict!? I hope they removed sentry and force fields already and buffed the gateway! In before nope!Archon2 Dec 29, 2015
Dec 29, 2015 PvP dt rush how to counter PvT Fast widow How do i deal with these. my standard opening for these are 4 gate or 3 gate robo into expansion. Do i basically have to make a fast forge just incase in these matchup for DT or widows?ProbeEmperor1 Dec 29, 2015
Dec 29, 2015 I wanna switch to Zerg Did some of you tried to Play Zerg? Im a toss main, but after analyting my lost Matches i noticed that the zergs have really bad mechanics. i Play Diamond lvl and based on the mechanics i feel like my zerg enemies should be Gold or platinum. I thought even i can do this better and played some unranked zerg games. I have no idea what to build and when. but i beat Diamond terrans and tosses after 3 days and 20 games practice. I was watching streams, tournmanents, donwloaded and analyzed pro repplays. after a lost game i thought how to do better etc. i was doing this with toss for 2 years and 3500 games. now i Play 20 zerg games without any clue and feel like i could beat my own toss. It makes me sad because i like toss but either im bad with toss or a zerg Talent. or zerg is just easy in General now. Did you guys already think about a race Switch? or even did it? really thinking about switching, because zerg is fun too and seems so much easier and convenient (dont Need to build so many Buildings, and find a Pylon power radius, dont worry about positioning and wall of. build supply Depots without changing the camera)Spammy4 Dec 29, 2015
Dec 27, 2015 Looking for practice partners Hey guys, I'm looking for a Protoss practice partner of diamond/masters skill level. I really could use the practice and I rarely come across Protoss on the ladder it seems. If interested in helping me out please post here with friend code and times you are available. I play Terran. Thank you!Furbiford1 Dec 27, 2015
Dec 27, 2015 starcraft lecacy of the void. starcraft: lecacy of the void. an internal error. Please wait a few moments and try again. if this error continues, try restarting the battle.net desktop app.khang0 Dec 27, 2015
Dec 27, 2015 The Colossus Some of you may hate it some of you may love them but we can all agree that the unit was nerfed to death. I'm am going to point out some stuff and what I think will bring back the unit OK 1st of all back in WOL (keep in mind this is opinion based) nobody complained about them. In HOTS people start complaining. T_T wtf!? seriously?! now they people start complaining?! In LOTV people got their wish and now the Colossi one of the most valuable units in the Protoss arsenal has been nerfed to death. Here are my suggestions on how the unit can be revived. The unit is way to expensive for the little amount of damage that it does these days in 0 upgrades so they are no longer viable as an opener in PvT and as we all know T's have been splitting against muta ling bane for years, and the Distruptor is basically just the same effect. Solution 1: Decrease the cost of the Colossi so that the unit's damage is justified, but we also need to decrease the dps again by some 2 points so that the A-move syndrome doesn't occur again. Solution 2: Remove the range upgrade but give it the fire wall ability like in the campaign. Solution 3: Increase the range upgrade further so that we get another true siege unit outside the Tempest. Keep in mind these are my opinions if you have suggestions please state them below and if you notice anything wrong with my ideas please also state the problems below.STRAFERUN4 Dec 27, 2015
Dec 26, 2015 Ravager/lurker money bug. Don't attack eggs Found a bug when watching a replay of one of my games and decided to load up a custom and confirm. A ZvP and the Zerg was all-inning and running roach ravager into my base. He morphed his roach into ravagers in front of me while attacking with other roaches and when I killed his eggs, I noticed the zerg's money was refunded. I confirmed through the observer that the Zerg player did not actually cancel the morph prior to the hatch in my base. I also confirmed it in a custom game by killing my own units. This also worked the same way with lurkers. Essentially the zerg doesn't need to cancel to ensure even if their eggs are attacked, they will be refunded. I'm sure this is a bug that may have been overlooked. Wish my nexus refunded me if destroyed while building! That also happens in my base haha.Archon5 Dec 26, 2015
Dec 26, 2015 Crackpot Tempest Ideas I am a long time viewer and player of Starcraft. I love Protoss, and want to offer some commentary as to hypothetical changes I'm currently theory-crafting about the Tempest unit. I feel this unit is, ultimately, disappointing. By themselves they hardly make a difference; the Tempest en masse either whallops the opposition, or is easily countered. To address this disparity, I suggest an ability be added to the Fleet Beacon for research to add variability to an otherwise lackluster unit. The ability will be called Matrix Alignment (open to suggestions for alternatives), and will allow the Tempest to combine with various other units. After research, the Tempest unlocks an ability that allows it to align with the Phoenix, Void Ray, and Mothership Core. When the Tempest and its target align, their models merge and they operate as a single unit. The ships can detach at anytime. When aligned, the Tempest becomes a "host", it retains its movement speed, health, shield, and armor. The ship aligned within its talons becomes untargetable. The Tempest's attack changes to that of the aligned ship's, however retains its range. This, essentially, allows a Phoenix, Void Ray, or MSC to gain the hp, shields, and range of the Tempest while aligned, but be limited to move at the Tempest's speed. When aligned with Phoenix, it retains the spell Graviton Beam, but can cast upon as many targets as within range simultaneously (casting spell will immobilize the Tempest). Its attack switches to Phoenix attack (AtA), attack speed, et al, however is extended to Tempest range (15). When aligned with Void Ray, it retains the ability Prismatic Alignment. It gains the Void Ray attack with increased (15) range. When aligned with the Motheship Core, it gains the MSC's attacks at increased (15) range, as well as an increased casting range (15). The alignment/ de-alignment ability ought to have a short cast time (~+/- .5 seconds), to prevent targeting exploitation. At anytime, the Tempest can separate from its target. If the Tempest is killed while aligned, the aligned ship dies as well. ~~~~~ This multifaceted ability would allow for much stronger transitions using Stargate compositions. The Tempest would work in conjunction with established air units, giving potency to the air campaign of a race that is heavily played with ground units. It plays off the concept of high value/ high cost units that is typical with Protoss (both units must be built, and the alignment is indefinite, therefore they become supply heavy units). Allowing the Tempest to detach allows for a dynamic playstyle, and add a feature to an otherwise bland tech-option for Protoss. I hope you enjoyed my theory-craft; leave a comment as to what you think of it!Ludwig2 Dec 26, 2015
Dec 26, 2015 Protoss seriously needs the Dragoon in LOTV As EGhuk stated in an interview with Desrow for his reactions on the LOTV changes. "Protoss needs a good buff unit that can stand its own against most circumstances." With the new changes, zerg and terran have gotten huge buffs with the new units that can really take out warp gate units even easier. Like for example, how are we suppose to fight ravagers when their meteor attack completely negates FF? I don't want to rely purely on just hoping to get lucky each round with that new distrupter to slow down the enemy or else I lose. I want the game so that if niether players lost any workers, Protoss would still be able to be able to fight on par with the new ground army of the terran and zerg. We don't need to really concentrate on super late game units like the tempest or carriers for change, blizzard needs to improve the mid-game for protoss where they are the weakest. I don't want to always have to harass in the midgame just because my units are too weak, I want to be able to engage in the midgame just like terran and zerg. Blink stalkers are just not a sturdy unit to rely on and the immortal is too costly, slow, and only builds 1 at a time without warpgate tech. Blizzard needs to bring the dragoon back, a buff powerful unit that is the combination and cost in the middle between a stalker and an immortal. It should cost right in the middle as well @ 175min/75gas with 100health/80shield. It would do straight normal damage of 20 to all units, with the upgrade of extended range at cyber core. and would be a warp gate unit. It is useful, versatile, and would really equalize the playing field for all ranks of play. It wouldn't be OP at all because of the huge buffs that the two other races got compared to what protoss got.TheVoid53 Dec 26, 2015