Zerg Discussion

Aug 24, 2010 howto small-force micro zerglings vs zealots? I'm having a micro-issue. In early game skermish, 6 of my zerglings all die vs 2 zealots, and they both live. I think I'm doing something wrong with micro, as I can see my zerglings running around and not actually attacking. What is the right way to micro zerglings vs zealots? AFAIK, there are three ways to get them to attack, is this right? 1) right click on an enemy (move-to and focus fire) 2) (A)ttack key, left-click on an enemy (head towards but attack anything in your path) 3) (A)ttack key, and a ground spot near them (head for the spot and attack anything in your path 4) Sit them in front of the zealots and want for the zealots to move into them. One zealot is too small for 6 zerglings to surround, so when I do (1) half of them spend their time running around trying to get a surround location doing nothing. It seems to me that (2) should be the best option, but oddly the zerglings tend to do the same thing as (1). I've tried, (3), but the zealots are on move-orders and don't hit the zerglings, sometimes they just run to the spot and stand there and the zealots walk right through. I admit I've never tried (4), as I just thought of it when I wrote this. However, if there are 2 zealots sitting at my door I'd like to send some zerglinsg to take them out. What do the pro players do to micro zerglings vs zealots. Kuro1 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 A simple buff to help with early reaper haras This is way too abusive against Zerg because reapers can quickly upgrade their speed. IMO they need to make roach speed t1 or delay reaper speed to t2.TwoBit0 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Where is the Zerg love at? Slowing rising in Platinum league (top 15)... hopefully I hit Diamond soon... but my question is: WHERE ARE ALL THE ZERG PLAYERS? out of 10 games I play against mostly Toss, then Terran, and maybe 1-2 Zerg if I'm lucky.... I understand that our race has some issues but shouldn't we be trying to help ourselves and learn how to overcome the "imbalance" instead of whining and complaining about how we lost. I feel like we need more top level players like PSY who try to help create and teach new strategies to Zerg players such as myself. More people need to play and get good at Zerg. So the race requires more than just walling, massing, and A clicking... Why is that a problem? /rant Jootorious24 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 What zerg units are good for what? I've been really curious to what unit can kill what, for example what kill thors easily? or what kills any protoss unit so on and so forth. I am going to list the units and just list what it is a good counter for. Zergling= Roach= Hydralisk= Mutalisk= Ultralisk= Corruptor= Banelings= Infestors=Zeus16 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Thors > All Seriously... I *#@%d all their air their ground and then thors come and kill all my mutas and all of my broordlords. Why do brood lords not out range thors?KakashikDL5 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 [Disscusion] Zerg Overview on timing ============WALL OF TEXT WARNING================ This is my personal opinion on the matter of ZvP/T and not even saying that zerg are underpowered. I feel that the timing of things is a bit off in such a small way its hard to tell but in a big enough way to effect game play. Its obvious that zerg can be out produced unit wise provided they do not macro effectively. What keeps players from macro effectively? Well aside from a huge skill jump from 1 base game play to 3+ base game play. It is the early-mid game and mid-late game timings. The best way to play zerg commonly accepted is to FE or at least expand sooner then your opponent. This is fine and all however to often do I feel I am having to build reactivity rather then aggressively. Looking at P/T there is and always has been unit diversity with specializations out the wazoo. This makes two kind of higher term players that I have seen in streams/replays and in matches occationaly. Ones who know what they want and powerhouse it and those who tech into everything under the sun. Both having obvious pros and cons. However as a zerg player its not so much an option as it is a much that you have to tech into everything. The lack of unit diversity and specializations hurts along with the timing in match that these appear. T1: Zerglings : Roachs : Banelings (Queen) T2: Hydralisk : Mutalisk : Infestor : Corrupter T3: Brood Lord : Ultralisk Now within these basically 9 units the zerg have almost all of them require their own building. This means tech choices have to be very particular with zerg to be able to fend off what type of army the enemy is sending. Sure zerg units are cheaper but typically an army of hydralisk/roachs/zerglings is what your left with. Mutalisk can both work and fail given the right situation and especially in ZvT. However chances are your not going to be allowed unit diversity since you will in fact need a larger army then your opponents. Granted the high damage low health of zerg is nice in its own rights it is often put to nothing against the more diversified armies of the opponent at almost any given time. The mid-game about 6-13 minutes is a rough time for zerg as you still do not have the opportunity to get all the buildings you need while you maintain the army quota you must to counter. With wall offs and blocks from P/T their more powerful single units make harassment other then locking your opponent in base almost impossible in the mid-game time I speak of. Toss especially as many people know have been really to much into their one base builds. Effecticly strong enough to make a macro zerg ineffective untill after the mid-game duration and they begin to run out of resources from their one base strategy. The down side is that countering one base T/P is difficult as it will always consist of two things. 1.) The initial strong arm attack which will come within the 6-13 min mark and have a fairly large unit diversity. (T: 1/1/1 Marine:Marauder/ Hellion:Siege Tank/Banshee:Viking) (P: 2/4 gate to robotics Zealots:Stalkers/Sentry Immoral/Collosus with star-gate) 2.) The diverse attack from all of these builds. A strong and specialized ground force with harassment and air. continued in the next post Sintobus9 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Moving up? How do we move up from a league. if we are ranked 1 and ahead by more then 50 points should we move?Clark12 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Mass Stalkers? WTF? :( So, recently, I've ran into 2 protoss that have done this. I harrass them the entire game, break their expansion then out of nowhere there's this giant army of stalkers, literally over 20-40 with a couple of colossi. I take the colossi down instantly, but then there's this legion of stalkers left that completely destroys my forces...what's the best counter these warping bastards when in such a huge number?Rhythmless13 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Spawn Larva - Button on the Hatchery please! Hey guys, yes, another spawn larva qq. I just think that with any other race I can maintain my base while on the attack just because I can hit my group hotkeys, and them my "make whatever" hotkeys, and I'm good. w/ zerg, not so much. You need to spawn larva every 40 seconds or you die. It's not just a perk, it's a necessity. I just want to still have to hit SOMETHING to cast it, I don't believe in autocast, but I just wish casting it was easier, so I don't have to click on the minimap on some tiny little block to cast it. If we put it on the hatchery instead the nearest queen can just take responsibility and do it herself, and all I have to do his hit my hatchery hotkey and then hit... I dunno... whatever the spawn larva hotkey would be. OR at least let us cast on the squares in the group just like you used to be able to on Warcraft III.Twilite11 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Fast Infestor/Ling build I have my own variant of a Infestor/ling build but i just wanna see what other people have done. Mine isnt nearly as fast as i want it to be just curious if any1 could share with me their quick infestor build.MattDamon0 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Staple build orders for new players. I'm gonna post a few build orders that i've come across. Anyone feel free to add or put their own on here for others to see. Baneling Bust 9/10 Overlord 14/18 gas 14/18 pool 15/18 overlord 16/26 zergling speed 16/26 queen 18/26 8 zerglings ( i usually rally them just out of eyeshot of the wall i plan to bust usually T) 22/26 Baneling nest 23/26 overlord 23/34 10 zerglings then morph 5-7 baneling i usually go with 7 micro your banelings and zerglings so they are both going up the ramp at the same time but make the zerglings fallback just as the banelings reach their target. fly the speedlings to the mineral line continue another large wave of speedlings into the base i usually have another 14 on they way after the first group gets their. At this point you're probably safe to make an expo and a 2nd extractor to tech to muta or hydra if they haven't already given up or steamrolled your strat. I usually put 3 drones on the extactor as soon as its done by the time your spawning pool is done you will have exactly 100gas for ling speed. Speedling Roach Defense/rush 9/10 overlord 14/18 extractor 14/18 spawning pool 15/18 overlord 15/26 queen 17/26 6 zerglings 20/26 ling speed 20/26 4 zerglings 22/26 roachwarden 21/26 overlord 21/34 6x roaches 33/34 overlord 33/42 3x roaches 39/42 4x lings i usually use this on toss that are shooting for a 2 gate or 4 gate. i push on the ramp with the roaches till i punch a hole and send the speedlings into the mineral line (hold speedling out of combat till a hole is made). If i manage to take out the stalkers and zelots with a few roaches left i start to take down the pylons by the ramp and gates if you are lucky sometimes they will have only 1 and you can kill production. more lings more overlords expo tech to hydra or mutalisk at this point. this one is a total hit or miss however Cannon rush ( personal build order) 9/10 overlord 12/18 pool 11/18 gas 13/18 overlord 11/18 2x spinecrawlers where ever he is pushing with cannons to keep him from building closer 14/26 queen 14/26 lingspeed 14/26 2nd gas 18/26 10x lings 23/26 2x lings 23/26 2x drones 26/26 lair tech 26/26 overlord 26/34 8x lings 26/34 nydus canal ( have an overlord parked ouside their vision in their base most cannon rushers don't use much defense at their base) 30/34 set canal and rush in to mineral line with lings send a drone in to expand somewhere and tech to broodlords to take out the cannons upgrayedd3 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Marine Maruader Medivac Issues for a Zerg? Constant Marine Maruader Medivac, harrasment? Anyone having these issues? Running into problems combating that, of course mutes for maruders if the marauder mix is > then the Marine Mix.... however by the time I get down battleing one attack, the next wave is there this time with tanks behind it, hellions, so on so forth untill Thors are backing it up... Whats a good combo to use? Banglings and speedlings aren't enough in the begining, roaches are getting slaughtered because of the medivac's constand healing... mutes are week against marines... SO ON AND SO FORTH Hydra / Ling mix has been my best option... but what are you guys doing? Platinum Division if that helps at all. LuRKeR20 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 whats your favorite and most hated maps as Z was just wondering what others opinions were on this matter. For me i like scrapstation almost always a win and xel'naga I hate Delta Quadrant vs toss or T howeverupgrayedd22 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 360 View I was wondering where u can find a place where u can view a 360 degree picture of zerg units. Like the more graphic pictures, not ingame such as campaign, quick match and stuff like that. Please and thank you if u could supply a place.ThyTombStone0 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Zerg is def coolest race, but way to hard to play for a casual gamer. i would like to switch to protoss, but my two friends already play protoss. soooo im switching to terran. PEACE OUT !*#!@ESRtBeerShldrs2 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Proof that Zerg is underpowered! This is complete proof that we suck. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=146788 Meanwhile, Terrans developed Marauders.Sungminy12 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 What are zerg? Seriously I'm confused what are they?mpjama20 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Expansion Change ideas Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm Expansion Zerg Ideas As we already know, the Heart of the Swarm expansion for Starcraft II is on the way, and I see it as a prime time to give Zerg a little facelift in terms of style and units. Each of the following ideas is followed up by lore and balance/style reasoning behind it. Healer Unit – Leech: As Zerg has no healing unit sans the relative immobile Queen, which never strays far from a Hatchery, Hive or Lair, A healing unit for Zerg would be invaluable; i.e. you may not need to send 30 Zerglings to kill 10 marauders and have 1 Zergling alive at the end of the engagement. The Leech, available for 50 minerals and 50 gas at ½ a supply from a larva (similar to zerglings) after morphing an Infestation Pit, (which for all intents and purposes is only gotten for teching to Hive, if ever just for an Infestor) and jumps on a unit's back, leeching life from that unit, and healing other nearby units (leeches cannot heal other units with leeches on them, to prevent endless healing loops and other assorted combat bugs, pun intended). Eligible units for leeching include Roaches, Ultralisks, Mutalisks and Brood Lords. A leech stays on the unit until the unit dies, and subsequently searches for a new host for a short period of time, before dying itself if a new host is not found. It will stay on a unit through burrow, so Roaches will be a good choice, but Ultralisks with their massive Health and Armor numbers would be beautiful candidates themselves, Mutalisks for their quick movement speed and flying capability (allowing you to keep up a harass), and Brood Lords, to sustain a slightly less mobile ground force (such as Ultralisks, Hydralisks and Roaches). Leeches can heal other nearby units while burrowed, but can only heal other burrowed units if it is burrowed. The Leech gives Zerg a healer unit that still gives a “no something for nothing” vibe, typical to other Zerg units and play. The idea for the unit itself not only makes it a unique healing unit but gives it reason to be spotted, targetted and destroyed. Research – BioMass: This idea stemmed directly from the Leech. “If Roaches are the only unit to get a significant advantage by burrowing healthwise, why would you use any other unit with a leech?” This was the fruit of this thought. All units gain the same health regeneration numbers as Roaches while burrowed on creep, and gives Roaches double normal roach regeneration while burrowed on creep. This research would be found at Hive or Lair level on the Lair or Hive itself, for 200 minerals and 50 gas. This gives incentive not only to use other units as Leech hosts, but also to spread creep and use burrow for something other than a sneak attack or a baneling landmine. Unit Modification – Corrupter: In it's current form, the corruptor is roughly 3/8 a battlecruiser mineral-wise,1/3 gas-wise and 1/3 supply-wise, and yet a battlecruiser can easily destroy 2 or three corrupters, even if properly micromanaged. Worse still, the Viking who is of a slightly less cost of a Corrupter can easily kill one toe-to-toe with no micromanagement (i.e. the extra damage ability the corrupter has).To fit the idea of the corrupter and bring back an SC1 favorite, corrupters would launch Scourge in a similar fashion to the Protoss Carrier's Interceptors, targetable and destructible suicide flying units, dealing damage to the target. This model would also make the morph to Brood Lord make sense from a function and lore standpoint. Any feedback and additional ideas would be great. Try not to make them too outlandish or overpowered, but still fitting the idea of Zerg.Zuelu12 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Funny terran rage (replay inside) http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/63339-1v1-terran-zerg-desert-oasis He attacks early with 4 marauders and two helions and then rages when I get 3 mutas out to stop the attack and ruin his econ. The rage is pretty funny, I just want to know if I did everything correctly given the situation I was put into.Fourn0 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Transitioning to T3? Note: Long thread incoming. =P So I was originally going to ask this question, but after a 5 game losing streak (following a 5 game winning streak, so not too bad I guess) I decided since it's like 95 degrees with a heat index that makes it feel like the surface of Mercury where I am I'd take a cold shower and ponder over things a bit, and I think I ended up answering this question for myself, but I'll ask anyway because most likely I'm WRONG! xD So I went into my games today deciding to focus on having a general plan of what I wanted to do and trying my best to execute said plan as smoothly as possible (after having watched the latest couple of Day9 dailies and his emphasis on this it seemed like a good idea). My plan was nothing spectacular: -Get fast speedlings -Get roaches/hyrdas (or mutas) and expand -Tech up to Ultras and expand again Is it the most efficient and tactical plan? Hell if I know. Most likely not. I do follow a general build order up till about my 2nd or 3rd Overlord so early game I'm getting down pretty well with the timing on my speedlings. Anyway, my question was originally going to be when to transition into T3 units (ultralisks in my case), but as I said I spent some time in the shower thinking and I think I answered this for myself. Usually once I get up a decent roach/hydra (or muta) force I start to push out/harass. Where I think my fatal flaw resides is as soon as I push out I set my hatch waypoints onto my units and spend as much larva/money as I can on reinforcing that push. I basically go all-in, and I didn't really realize how serious doing this was, or even that I was really doing it, until I stopped and thought about it. Instead of trying to reinforce and outright win the game when I push out, that's when I should be expanding/teching up, right? I mean really all trying to reinforce does is if my attack utterly fails *glares at turtling terran players* is cause my reinforcements to bravely and foolishly march forth into certain doom, and since I'm spending all my larva as soon as it pops if he counterattacks I don't have enough larva saved up to fend him off, or if I do manage to fend him off it's just barely. And for a couple unrelated questions: When going for hive tech you have to build an infestation pit. If infestors are not part of my original plan is it ok just to use the pit as a stepping stone to T3, or is it a good idea to always try and utilize infestors if the game gets to that point. I haven't used infestors much so I'm not sure what situations they're best in, or if they're just useful in general. ...I thought I had another question but it's escaped me. All for the better I guess. Anywho, sorry for this lengthy post. When I think a lot it tends to transcribe into an essay/short novel. Thanks for reading if you managed. If needed I can follow up with a few replays of my matches from today as well. =) Edit: I remembered my other question. xD So for the past few games I've noticed that when I push out my force is pretty evenly numbered with my opponent's. That's got me a bit discouraged because I figured one of Zerg's main strengths was being able to easily outnumber your opponent. Is it just an issue with my not being as smooth/fast as my opponent? I watch my replays and it doesn't seem like I'm that much slower. Usually my APM is a little higher in most of my games, though I admit APM is not one of my major concerns at this time, but it is a bit disheartening.Kurugi12 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Dear IdrA... You are the most amazing Zerg player I have ever seen. I watch and study your replays religiously and practice very hard to emulate your amazing Micro/ Macro skills. You are what Zerg newbs like myself and others want to become. However, I am not a fan of yours. You have a serious attitude problem. When you lose, you piss and moan, calling your opponent a "cheeser" and a "n00b". You RAGE every time you are defeated fairly and for someone of your skill level, it is unnecessary. I understand that you have made SC2 your livelihood and that's fantastic! I wish I could play video games for a living. That is probably why losing is so hard for you because losing matches loses money for you. You seem to me like the Kanye West of SC2. Always blaming someone else for your shortcomings. I'm not trying to bash you or anything. I think you are a great Zerg player who has overcome a lot of the inherent balance problems with the Zerg with amazing skill and dexterity. I just wish that you would be gracious in your defeats because that is what makes a true champion. You set a bad example for the younger players out there with your raging. Everybody loses. As a Bronze level player, I get cheesed all of the time. I think you will find that when you accept your defeats with grace and dignity, your fan base will grow and a large fan base is what corporate sponsors want to see. No one liked Dennis Rodman because he was a jerk, despite his amazing talent. I want to be your fan. However, your attitude makes all of the Zerg look bad. I would love to see you succeed in this game because it inspires the rest of us to be better. All I ask is that you show basic courtesy and respect to other players, especially the ones that defeat you. The difference between a winner and a champion is the one that wins and loses with humility and respect. Please be the Champion your fans deserve and I will count myself as one of your fans. To the rest of the zerg players, we do have some balance issues. However, let's keep being creative. Let's keep the Terrans and the Protoss guessing. Let's accept our defeats with dignity and grace and win our battles with the same. If we all treated each other with respect, we can all win and lose with smiles on our face. Thanks!Durandel55 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 I want to play Zerg So I'm new and playing campaign now. I suck. But I will get better I'm sure. What's the easiest way to learn how to play Zerg? Custom Multiplayer Games vs. AI? BTW- I can't stand the 'hero' in the campaign. Actually I have a general dislike for all the characters in the campaign. Love the Queen and the missions seem pretty fun though.Jadakin8 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 How to fix Zerg (Just a start at least) In my opinion Zerg is definitely almost balanced. There are just a couple things that could be added and a couple other things that should be nerfed IMO. NOTE: now again before I start this is all in my own opinion. These are just some things that I think will help out our race and you all are entitled to judge it as you see it. First off, gimme back my lurkers!!!! -Lurkers from SC1 were alot of people's favorite units. They required decent micro which kept newer players from spamming them and they were a great counter to early siege tanks. Without lurkers now, most terrans I play with wall off and rush to siege tanks with a nice mix of marines and other infantry. Having some lurkers to keep the terrans on their toes would be a nice little addition for us. Second, Roaches should do +dmg to armored and be able to attack air! While this may seem a little over the top, before you reply think about it. Roaches are essentially a tier 2 unit due to the lair requirements for their upgrades. By the time your efficiently throwing up roaches, a toss player probably has their stalker / zel combo rollin or maybe even a stupid void ray is killing your drones. If roaches could hit air it would make toss have to build more than one void ray to cheese their way to a win. Im pretty sure theres more to come as I think of it, but just these two changes alone are enough for me. thoughts? 2nd NOTE: Yes I already know any game can be won with proper scouting! do not post this!!GeneralWartz7 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Zerg larva notification The Protoss have a special window that pops-up when they have a warp gate off CD. The zerg should have the same type of window displaying how many larva are currently not morphing. I can't think offhand of a terran equivalent but the zerg/protoss comparison is pretty direct.Alexial4 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Spawn Larva Just a quick lil simple question if i have my queens on a hotkey say 4 what do i click/press to tell her to spawn larva on the hatch shes near without looking at her?thekins4 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 A different take on the Zerg UP problem Let me begin by explaining that I am a 4v4 player, and my opinion of zerg strength is based around it's performance there. 4v4 is a ranked league format, and therefore is just as important as being balance in 1v1. In it's current state Zerg does not contribute a lot to the team except in special situations (like when you're put up against opponents that let you get 3 expansions while they 1 base). Why? Early Game Units Lets start from the beginning of a match. Other races can produce marines, hellions, and zealots without gas. We produce zerglings. Within current strategies, all of these units are more useful both immediately and for the length of the game. The Marine is a ranged unit. This allows them to wall in and fire over the structure, defending it with minimal risk. It can also be massed safely because in mid and late game they are capable of defending against air units. The Zealot is a melee unit that is individually stronger than a zergling due to its higher cost, and per mineral is about equal in strength if it wasn't for a specific issue. Because of the nature of melee combat (the need to find an open physical spot around the target) the zergling will only be able to have a small number attacking a single target at any time. This is a problem because focus fire is more efficient than spreading damage across all targets (when one target dies, it stops causing damage to your units, but there is no reduction for partial health loss). So 4 zerglings is supposed to be equal to a zealot (mineral cost), but when you double that (8 and 2 zealots) the 2 zealots are able to attack the same target, the 8 zerglings cannot. This is where efficiency is lost. Late game zealots are less susceptible to splash damage (siege tanks, thors), making them a more useful unit in addition to the problems with zergling melee. At tier 1.5 Terran has quite a few options depending on Mech or Bio. They are free to chose from this variety because Marines will successfully defend against any air unit rush. The reaper is a unit of particular value since it has unrivaled mobility for a unit this early. Tier 1.5 for Protoss opens up several units capable of attacking both air and ground. While not having the same variety as Terrans, this opens up the option to stay at tier 1.5 without risking losing to air. Zerg Teir 1.5 consists of the roach, which is really one of our better units. It can deal with most early ground threats except marauders. It also has more survivability late game than most zerg units which can be a plus in many situations. It does not however give us the ability to deal with air, so it is often skipped as a safety measure to get to tier 2. The baneling is also available, however is very very situational and risky since they are a suicidal unit and you are guaranteed to lose large amounts of resources using them. Mid-Game If we have not been hurt badly by early game, this is where Zerg can shine. We have a variety of Tier 2 units, both ground and air (although the build time on the spire pushes air to nearly Tier 2.5). We can start mass producing tier 2 units faster than other races (no need for multiple tier 2 unit producing structures), but this is usually not possible. Despite being weaker unit vs. unit compared to other races, our gas cost on units is equal and is our main limiting factor. Smaller health pools also make our tier 2 units more at risk for dying to splash damage.Hinotori3 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 ZvT pretty epic game... Well this is a game between Blight and I. I was Z he was T. Its long, game lasted 1 hour 3 mins pretty much all resource locations except one was mined out.. Heres replay... Give me some critiques and advice if ya want... http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/63146-1v1-terran-zerg-lost-templerstoner3 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Upgrades in the EVO Chamber How are you guys working in upgrades? What are your focus areas when upgrading? I do not mean speedlings, roach range, etc etc I am talking about Evo Chamber and Spire upgrades.... What kind of process should I be focusing on based off of the game timeline? Of course the opponet will be a variable.... however does economy play a factor in that as well? LuRKeR2 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Hydra speed upgrade Let me get one blizzardRtBeerShldrs4 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 4Pooling: Can It Be Revived? I was wondering today if it is possible to revive the 4Pool. My idea for this strategy is that, on a 1v1, you set 4 of your Drones to minerals. You send one of your drones out to his base, and, as soon as it gets there, you send another drone. This will confuse him. He will not know why there are drones arriving at his base in intervals. With any luck he will believe that you are not playing seriously. Then you launch your Zergling rush. He will not see it coming. I vote that we should all try out this strategy at least once today, and post our results.KingCrimson4 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 ZvZ good counter to ling/bling rush ? im having fun playing against Terran or protoss but i think its boring like hell to play ZvZ because my opponent go also zerling/ baneling like i often do. so is there any good counter for it ? like if i face a ZvZ and i know hes going to push with zergling and baneling do i have more other option than doing the same or get roach ? if i go turtle for fun in a small map, i thought about building 14 pool, then build a 2nd hatchery at the top of my ramp and put 2-4 spine crawlers at each side, he will mostly come with baneling to take it down and i build a other again ( mind be 300 mineral but he lost like 10-14 baneling for killing it. so i could tech up fast and make my lair and mutas and harrast economy and his building also think about a 2nd queen and stuff to defend what u think ?BIGFATPORK7 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 How do I beat this? Alright, I was playing on Scrap Station, and this terran takes my natural. He sticks a couple bunkers around it and some barracks, and he makes the CC a PF. Then he puts his production buildings all across in a tight wall, and he puts some siege tanks back near his mineral line. He also puts missile turrets everywhere (with the range upgrade). To top it all off, he had swarms of marines and a couple thors protecting it, and his SCVs in the mineral line were ready to repair the siege tanks and the PF. So how I approached it: I had a bunch of zerglings and roaches, along with a few hydras, infestors, and ultras. I also had some mutas, but they couldn't do anything with those missile turrets. How would I punch through this? Broodlords? I didn't even bother teching to them because if the marines didn't take them out, all it would take is a couple vikings. If I tried to protect them with corruptors, they'd get destroyed by the missile turrets. I didn't try banelings because I figured many would explode before they even got in range, and the rest wouldn't be able to take out all those production buildings. To clarify, I'm simply looking for advice on how to smash this terran wall. I'm not looking for people to tell me how I screwed up and how much of a noob I am, nor am I looking for emo "u can't do it because zerg sucks" people. Any help would be greatly appreciated.Razor4 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 This Replay got me Diamond 1v1 Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/63079-1v1-terran-zerg-blistering-sands Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05-GHfJZAJc Okay... I'll be honest, I was makeing tons of mistakes and there was tons I could have done to do better. Was haveing problems with my macro of drones, and was having more problems hotkeying my units, but I still did the job that was needed in the end. For some reason 1v1's make me all jittery. Anyways, enjoy the Anti-CheeseXero8 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 BEST Z BUILD 11/10 drones cancel extractor spawning spool / gas / evolution chamber 2 Queens using your Queens start using larva on hatcheries and creep tumors to expand speed creep. so forth and so on, drones, overlords, zerlings, roaches, expo/ hyrdras, mutas, ultraspiStoLjuNkY6 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 So...I finished my placement matches. I did not lose a single match, yes...I know, I'm awesome. Sadly, this is not because I performed well, almost everyone up and left...one of which doing so after asking me if I still resided in Buffalo. I dropped from one game, and the only game that actually went into the end...the Terran up and left when he could have won it. I'm not sure if he was discouraged because I had a decent sized air force against his Marines and Tanks...or if he dropped too. I was only spawning Mutalisks, so his Marine ball could have taken out the reinforcements I think...and had he switched up his own force he could have easily won, he was on three bases...though I did have a high yield and two others myself. Regardless, not a single loss...all because everyone left, or I dropped...the drops being my only loses. I...somehow feel unfulfilled.Tenebrae2 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Do you guys think this would work? I just thought of a nice little plan. We all love to send our first couple overloards out for scouting right? Well what if, vs Terran, we place one a little bit back from the opposing mineral line early game. Not within the enemy vision just there waiting (cause it takes forever to get there anyway) and then once you have speedlings, a lair, OL transport and 8 lings, early drop. 8 speedlings could cause HAVOC behind an enemy terran wall and with the overlord waiting there from the start it only has to make a short trip with the speedlings doing most of the running. Opinions? Tweaks? Ideas? I haven't really seen much talk of overlord transport since the worm came outBLaggard4 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Don't kill the queens :-( Mirroring here, it's worth it, funny and cute: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=146157 Kibou17 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 I'm tired of getting hit by void rays n zelot A long time ago I played SC1 and played Zerg in the multiplayer. They were a fun race to play. Now though I can't do !**@. I insta lose against good terran players and one or two void rays mess up everything early game with chonoboost. And if it isn't Void rays it's a rush of zelots. I'm not even out of the practice ladder and I can already see a f ton of flaws with the zerg over the other races. I'm not saying I'm good or anything but when the only way I see victory is by backdoor zergling rush that's not how I want to play the game. ok the ranting and raving of a newbie is over. Just had to get things off my chest after getting nailed by another void ray rush that even though I scouted out I was powerless to ultimately stop.Kayote6 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 New to zerg what is a good build I just switched to zerg from playing protoss and I was in gold before but I lost my rank and got bumped down to silver. I really need some good builds so I can get back too gold. I have tried alot of the basic ones like the roach build which hasn't been working and then starting with speed zerglings to mutalisks which has been okay.Hidric9 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Roach Question to Blizzard Programmers. When I put a roach right next to a building it ceases to spit acid and instead uses its two scythe [the animation is distinct from the flexing as it spits to one of either a left-right slashing or another animation]. My question is that just for show or is there an alternate attack that doesn't display on the middle status display?Goyathla5 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 The only problem with Reapers is... ... us Zerg players being impatient early game. I really hate to say it, but after looking over the Idra vs. Morrow replays again, all we should really need to effectively combat them is to hang on for dear life early game (with roaches/slings, preferably) and then keep it up to stomp them mid or late. Yes, YES, YES, I am aware of the other perceived issues that Terran has; do yourself a favor, however, before you post that next QQ thread - watch the replay of G1 again between Idra and Morrow. For the sake of this argument, let's assume that Idra and Morrow are more or less equally skilled, and that the only differences between any equally skilled players going ZvT are, A: the mistakes that they make and, B: any weaknesses of their race. Despite the fact that he's going 1base vs 2base most of the match, and spending tons of precious time microing to combat the reapers, he is actually equal with Morrow or in the LEAD when it comes to the macro game. Hell, he even loses a huge bunch of blings (ten or so) to his own micro mistakes and *still* keeps his opponent on the defensive while he's pushing with nothing but hot air! If, instead of throwing his lings and 2/3 roaches headlong into a choke against ~10 rines/marauders and then rage-GG'ing, he instead decided to use his brain, he could have easily wiped out Morrow's SCVs at the expansion and then retreated (or forged a winning battle against the few remaining M/M at the bottom of the ramp). At that point, he most DEFINITELY would have been in the lead going into that portion of the game, since the 2base vs. 1base advantage would have been his. Cliff's notes - Idra gets bent over early by reapers, delayed FE twice and too much time micro'ing, uses less APM than Morrow for the whole game, throws away lings/blings against an army they could have defeated, half the workers of Morrow and 500 less income on minerals... STILL comes out ahead or equal mid-late game after all these mistakes! Do you see what I'm getting at? Keep your chins (and claws) up, zerglings! For the swarm! Play your heart out and don't let these cheesy bastard Terrans get you down - send 'em back to Wisconsin!Saint25 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Cool Nydus Worm salvage idea Ok, I was thinking about a upgrade that would increase the use of Nydus worms. Instead of just creating a Nydus worm that will have a high chance of being killed (Like being spawned inside a base). After the Nydus worm is spawned, there should be an ability to destroy the nydus worm to get a small refund. Lets say you created a nydus worm inside a terran base with a 1 ditch effort to destroy as many buildings as possible. Then the salvage ability would come in handy. After you get all your troops into t the enemy base, you salvage the Nydus worm so you can get somewhat of a refund back. I was thinking that with every use, the refund value would drop by 25%. Also a salvage time of 5 seconds. Another example, you get some units into the terran base with the Nydus worm. Your send some troops in, do the most amount of damage before the terran arrive, then you fall back into your Nydus worm to get back to your base. Then you can salvage your Nydus worm for 50% of the initial value to spawn it. Since you used it twice to get there and get back. Just an idea, what do you think of it?Motelguy9 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Some more Zerg tips and tricks hey all, i felt like adding on to my original post (the one called "zerg tips and tricks against builds" detailing how to deal with some of the more popular builds used by terran and protoss, look it up and see if it helps you) on this post, i will touch up on some higher level/unorthodox strategies that can throw your opponent off gaurd. hidden tech: protoss and terran arnt the only ones who can hide their tech (building structures such as starports/stargates/factories somewhere on the map to surprise an opponent with a unit(s) that he/she has not prepared for), overlords /w speed /w spewing creep will allow you to place any building anywhere on the map. but to be able to do this, you will need a lair, which can be easily scouted by the opponent, whick WILL give a hint at what your doing. the best way to go about hiding a tech building is making a hidden lair. making a lair at an expansion instead of your main can achieve this, OR, you can get even trickier and make a completely out of place hatcher (it can still be used to spawn larva for units), somewhere on the map that the enemy would not expect it to be (people usually dont expect hidden buildings from zerg). probably the most popular of the buildings for you to hide is the spire, because it takes a little bit of planning and preparation to fight a swarm of mutalisks. or instead of going strait for mutalisks, you can keep teching up (making normal units and stuff at your main) and get a greater spire, and completely catch your opponent off gaurd with broodlords. Nydus worm expanding: the nydus worm is not a very popular thing to use, its mostly spotted when trying to backdoor an enemy. BUT what it can be used to great effect is in expansions. having a nydus worm at the back of each of your mineral lines can mean a quick getaway for a doomed hatchery, that way you wont have to waste larva/minerals to replace whatever drones were at that expansions. And if you read my post "Zerg tips and tricks against builds", then you will know that this will make your MANY expansions that much more expendable. one other thing you can use with nydus worm expanding is taking island expansions. you can just hover an over lord towards an island (like on lost temple) and pop a nydus worm, it would be as if it was connected by the ground, because both your ground units and drones can safely go too and from the nydus worm. note: this will also make saturating distant expansions that much easier. Dtox4 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Zerggunist Manifesto Here, I'll be lining out a couple of greivances to Blizzard over the balance of this game. Specifically, why the Zerg are (and one way they can stop being) UP. Ignore my avvy, I played in the beta. This is an old-timer. Point One of Two: We are often outproduced. Not easily, but often. And being the Zerg, that's a pretty big problem! If you want to increase your larva count, you have to build a new Hatchery, which eats 300 minerals and takes pretty darn long. Meanwhile, if a Terran player wants to increase production, he can take that exact amount and build two new Barracks in just over half the time, and invest some Vespene in reactors. By the time a lower-level Zerg has his first ling ball incoming, it's very possible the Terran player has a bigger marine ball. The Barracks even have an almost equal amount of health as a Hatchery! So how do we solve this? We make production easier for the Zerg. A new, smaller, cheaper building that produces larvae but cannot be injected to make more (for balance reasons, of course). The Hatchery is still the center of production, but it makes a Zerg player uneasy to plop down another for no better reason than to burn through his mineral backup. And don't get me started on the Queen micro. Point Two of Two: We require more skill to beat an evenly-matched opponent. This is pretty much a fault of the Battle.net system. If you complain about the Zerg being UP, people will say, "They're not UP, you just need to get better at the game." But if I got better at the game, I'd be fighting people of a higher skill level, and thus would be again disadvantaged! The fact that Zerg requires more skill will forever doom them in a ranking system that bases itself on skill. Moreover, it proves that they're underpowered. If you have to be 5 times better than your opponent to beat him with a particular race, then your race is 5 times worse than his. We could very well be having platinum-level Zerg fighting in Gold because of the sheer difficulty of playing the race. And think of the poor career Zerg players! Don't you care about their livelihood, Blizzard? Oh, wait. There are no career Zerg anymore. Because you refused to buff them, and all of them changed race because they need the money.Graven0 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Infestors: How to make them good Infestors are the Zerg caster unit. It is the Zerg Sentry.They cane make a meatshild of infester marines, trap units in place and slowly kill them with fungal growth, or take over a unit with neural parasite. However, it is too fragile to make any of these useful. So I suggest they have... A: A research calles Infesting Spores, allowing it to use the Infest Ability. B: A Research called Periscoping Antennae, allowing it to use all abilities while burrowed Abilities: Spawn Infested Marine: 25 Energy, Spawns Infested Marines Spawn Infested Terran: 10 Energy, Spawns Infested Terrans Spawn Abberation: 75 Energy, Spawns Abberation Neural Parasite: 100 Energy, Mind Controlls Unit Infest: 150 Energy, Infests building, allowing it to A: Spawn 2 Infested Marines and 3 Infested Terrans every 15 seconds, if Terran Building B: Spawn 2 Infested Zealots every 15 seconds, if Protoss building C: Spawn 1 Infestor every 45 seconds, if zerg building This should make infestors much more dangerous, and worth the price you pay for such a fragile unit.AJj2 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Zerg may be UP in 1v1 but balanced in 2v2/3v3 I am by no means a pro but see some signs of unbalance in my 1v1 matches, particularly vs terran players. However, in larger and longer games I find that the zerg production flexibility and economic advantages compensate for weaker units. In larger games and the larger maps that go with them it is much easier to get that critical first expansion up and running early and move into Tier 2 which drastically increases the options a zerg player has. This is not the case in high level 1v1 where reapers murder expansions and mmm balls roll through just about anything that is thrown at them. Can the SC2's race balance be different for different types of games? Or does this have more to do with the fact that larger more open maps favor zerg?Lister19 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 How to stop a two gate Zealot rush? I'm having issues stopping a 2-gate and 4-gate. Any ideas for this Zerg player?Orion12 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 One unit to change: Drone A lot of the topics in here focus on the entire zerg race at once, and this tends to spread the discussion too thin so the depth on any given unit is shallow. Focusing on only one unit this time, discuss what you think should change about the Drone, or whether it needs to be changed at all. Does it need another building, changes to gathering speed, resource cost, build time, movement speed, or even shifting the role of stationary base defense? Post you opinions here about the Drone. I understand that many of you do not actually have a strong opinion about the drone, as it is the most basic unit and in most of it's functions perfectly fine. I do see one flaw though, and that is that while terrans and protoss can build very quickly without sacrafising their workers, Zerg has to build one worker per every building they make. My suggestions are thus: either make a unit that builds faster than a drone strait from a hatchery/lair/hive (like a queen) and can make buildings just like one, or at the very least shift the role of stationary base defense to another unit. Neoproteus6 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 How to micro vs SCV rush? I got rushed by Terran with his initial 6 SCVs. By default, my drones just run away. What's the best way to manage the drones to defeat the rush? Having them all attack one SCV did not work.Hammurabi8 Aug 24, 2010
Aug 24, 2010 Why doesn't every terran "manner-bunker"? So I remember in Sc1 the manner-pylon was a fun idea. You warp in a pylon on top of where a hatchery would be in an expansion. Cost to you 100 minerals; cost to your opponent? More than 100 minerals of mining time. That said, in SC1 there was plenty of pros and cons in the early game to balance it out. In SC2 however there's very little reason I can think of NOT to do this with a bunker. Costs you 100 minerals - thats bad. Delays your zerg opponent's expansion . . . that's good. More importantly it FORCES early 1-base zerg play. In other words it forces either very weakened economy or minimal number of units. Push out with a nice counter-force of 4-8 marines = ftw. Best of all, with the new 'salvage' mechanic there's no need to even lose your initial 100 mineral investment! -AHMAD EDIT: "not to do this with a bunker"KingOfBlades16 Aug 24, 2010