Balance Test Map Soon

General Discussion
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careful you don't want to make the zerg too fast!

you should have borrow require more supply and creep to get to normal sleep for roaches.

hydras cost too little supply for their health and cost, you should make them 4 supply and makes them a little slower so they are more "zergy".


wow.....did you even read what you wrote? none of that makes any sense. burrow require supply? hydras cost a lot honestly, atleast gas wise which you have to take into account as well, not just minerals. and 4 supply is simply ridiculous. and the reason they have the speed upgrade is because without it they are worthless, you cant micro them and you cant run away with them.


are you Romanian?
blizzard, I hope you are holding off on the patch because of the following, and I hope you are monitoring the following very closely:

First there are the Aligulac stats which are IMO the most reliable stats since they have the biggest pool :
http://aligulac.com/reports/

TvZ 48.05%
PvZ 51.13%
PvT 50.37%

But for those saying "this doesn't mean sh*t because only premier tournaments matter", feel free to check the TLPD stats :
http://i.imgur.com/difIAU9.png

TvZ 48.5%
PvZ 53.6%
PvT 49.2%

And the Korean TLPD stats:
http://i.imgur.com/IeWtrw4.png

TvZ 37.8%
PvZ 58.4%
PvT 51.1%

Stats shows a fairly balanced game and a slightly Z favoured TvZ match-up.
Blizzard needs to be extremely careful, nerfing widow mines into oblivion will just destroy terran that are doing poorly this month, especially in Korea (TvZ 37.8% wtf?).
InfamousOne, if stats are so balanced, why do you QQ so much about Protoss?
10/01/2013 05:44 PMPosted by Protostitute
InfamousOne, if stats are so balanced, why do you QQ so much about Protoss?


i made a post earlier that if the stats are showing tvp to be balanced then even i need to cool it... i sitll think terran is resorting to scv pull almost what seems 70% of the games now in order to beat toss, but whatever.

all tvp needs is a super minor change just like tvz got with the overseer... something with msc is all that it needs

and I havent been on here QQing about toss much at all... I have devoted my time trying to show tvz as balanced

you can bet these changes are not going to make it into the game otherwise terran will be unplayable
The DT was the major one I had issue with, so with that revoked I like these better, though I'll wait to see how strong mech will be with combined upgrades. Would have been cool to see a neural parasite or nydus rework. Or corrupter rework.
if stats are balanced why are zerg forced to do a cheese to attempt to get on even footing with terran? if they dont then they will be behind and still lose to terrran thanks to bio+mine
PLUS the fact terran is getting more income than zerg

the fact that terran can get better economy than zerg clear sign of imbalance

terran should not be able to macro better than zerg
-- if you don't want to fix this blizzard then i suggest you buff zerg units to make up for the fact that we no longer have the macro advantage which gives us the ability to use weaker units

terran should not be able to get BOTH the macro advantage and the best units in the game that trade well so well with everything even the hard counters like banelings to marines (stim off creep and splits never mind marauders)
having both of the above is OP but you can thank the mule and blame your self you never balanced the mule in WoL and so its still OP to this day
--- THEY ARE FREE WORKERS THAT BRING IN RESOURCES 5 TIMES AS FAST AS 1 WORKER
bad enough they get to use free workers so they can sack scvs later because they are maxed and have so many OC that they can sack scvs to make an even bigger army KEEP IN MIND THEY STILL HAVE THE BEST ARMY THAT TRADES EFFICIENTLY WITH EVERYTHING AND THEY NEVER NEED TO GET PAST TIER 1.5 MARINES MINES AND MAY BE MARAUDERS

- this game needs some serious changes if you want it to be successful

-- wounder why you got less viewers in the Quarter finals and the finals of last WCS? because no one likes watching a race that only needs to use the first 2 units in its arsenal to BEAT EVERYTHING THE OTHER ONE USES !! IT BORING !
- what were you thinking ? with the marine mines ?> seriously I just gonna go ahead and assume you were not thinking
Please, get the revelation marker out of the head of the ennemy affected units.
I think it should just be an animation like EMP or storm, and after this, nothing more than the marker on the top left corner on the unit statu screen. :)
King of queens.

You appear to be highly intelligent.

Please tell a Terran a composition out of bio which will not get completely getting crushed by the opposition with little or no effort at all.

Make sure you tell flash and innovation because those guys are idiots.
Revelation changed to range of 14. Time decreased to 15 seconds. Energy to cast reduced in half.

If you did these three things people would probably actually make Oracles and use them in matchups. It would be similar to Terran scans. In any late matchup vs terran the terran is scanning so often that any observer is revealed and detected and killed. Its almost pointless to have observers. The real strategic advantage goes to terrans here.

Protoss could use the oracle to great advantage to at least give them some battlefield awareness that the terran has a market on during any late game played against either zerg or protoss.
Except zergs r winning more macro games than all ins

Dont let that stop ur agenda tho kingofqueens
I stopped reading at "Terran can macro better than Zerg"

Seriously what the hell are you smoking and/or how bad are you? Mules are what allow us to catch up with P & Z, not pull ahead because you both can mass and use workers more efficiently. The *only* case where your argument is even remotely true is in the very late game, when we have 5+ Orbitals and can mass-mule for a mineral spike (or sac SCVS for a larger army) but this doesn't happen very often.

Hatcheries cost less and build faster than CC's. Inject Larva allow you to mass drones very, very quickly. Yes you lose the drone, but Extractors only cost you 25 vs 75 and morph pretty quickly. You make 1 building for your unit production, and can spam overlords to quickly increase your supply cap without pulling off mining duty.

L2P

Seriously what the hell are you smoking and/or how bad are you? Mules are what allow us to catch up with P & Z, not pull ahead because you both can mass and use workers more efficiently. The *only* case where your argument is even remotely true is in the very late game, when we have 5+ Orbitals and can mass-mule for a mineral spike (or sac SCVS for a larger army) but this doesn't happen very often.

Even in early-to-mid stages of game MULEs provide more income than toss' chronoboosts on probes, not to mention toss uses it on his upgrades.

10/02/2013 10:07 AMPosted by Malacite
Yes you lose the drone, but Extractors only cost you 25 vs 75 and morph pretty quickly. You make 1 building for your unit production, and can spam overlords to quickly increase your supply cap without pulling off mining duty.

Extractors morph 30 secs, Refineries build 30 secs. Considering cost of the drone, an extractor costs 75 minerals as well.
Except zergs r winning more macro games than all ins

Dont let that stop ur agenda tho kingofqueens


Uhm, interesting, do those stats you had show how many of those wins were by all ins, because you say Zergs are winning more macro games but you have no proof of that, the truth is that Zergs have adapted and they dont let it get to a macro game, they just roach bane all in, which is what we've been seing the most.

I stopped reading at "Terran can macro better than Zerg"

Seriously what the hell are you smoking and/or how bad are you? Mules are what allow us to catch up with P & Z, not pull ahead because you both can mass and use workers more efficiently. The *only* case where your argument is even remotely true is in the very late game, when we have 5+ Orbitals and can mass-mule for a mineral spike (or sac SCVS for a larger army) but this doesn't happen very often.

Hatcheries cost less and build faster than CC's. Inject Larva allow you to mass drones very, very quickly. Yes you lose the drone, but Extractors only cost you 25 vs 75 and morph pretty quickly. You make 1 building for your unit production, and can spam overlords to quickly increase your supply cap without pulling off mining duty.

L2P


Im preety sure you're failing at math since a Hatchery is 300 PLUS the 50 minerals of the drone you used to make it and 50 to substitute the drone that was mining and that you used to build the Hatchery and the same applies to the extractor, and I can tell you're just trying to get small things to strengthen your argument which is ridiculous.
Mules maintain the Terran ahead if they're on equal bases, which means Zerg is forced to be a base up against protoss since their units are so much stronger than ours and up a base on Terran because on equal bases Terran will have superior income which allows them to trade and be up on resources lost since their units are also individually stronger than Zerg's which is why its said that Zerg have the hardest macro, we have to maintain more bases than the enemy, and maintain Larvae Injects on point which are without a doubt the most dificult macro mechanic to maintain
I am not back in the game. Please just patch the widow mine. Today! Stop waiting 3 months!!!
10/02/2013 11:17 AMPosted by Ghost
Im preety sure you're failing at math since a Hatchery is 300 PLUS the 50 minerals of the drone you used to make it and 50 to substitute the drone that was mining and that you used to build the Hatchery and the same applies to the extractor,

The hatchery is only 350.
The drone that builds it + the hatchery.

Hence why making a Hatchery then a drone then a hatchery then a drone costs 700 minerals and not 800.
The hatchery is only 350.
The drone that builds it + the hatchery.

Hence why making a Hatchery then a drone then a hatchery then a drone costs 700 minerals and not 800.


You make the drone, 50 minerals, then the hatchery, 350, and then the drone to replace that drone you just used, 400 minerals, there you go
Because you spend 50 minerals twice on drones
Any update on when the test map is live Blues? :)
You make the drone, 50 minerals, then the hatchery, 350, and then the drone to replace that drone you just used, 400 minerals, there you goBecause you spend 50 minerals twice on drones

Initial drones are free.
Additional mining Drones are produced normally and cost 50 minerals each.

The only reason why you have to replace a Drone for a Hatchery is if you were planning on making a new one to keep a net-neutral drone count. You only spend 50 minerals more on drones than you would have if you did not plan to make the Hatchery, so the extra cost to the Hatchery is 50, not 100. You do not get to add the cost of a drone twice because you are not making two extra drones. You are only making one!

Thus the Hatchery is only worth 350.

Again, if you make a drone for the sole purpose of creating the Hatchery, you are spending 350 minerals total on the Hatchery. 50 for the Drone, 300 for the Hatchery. There is no "replacement drone" for this purpose because the purpose of the produced drone was to make the Hatchery.

As such, all Zerg buildings produced via Drones are worth 50 minerals more than the stated value. It is not possible to claim that they are worth 100 minerals more than the value because any additional Drones other than a replacement drone for a mining drone were simply new Drones. There was one replacement or there was one Drone made specifically to build the structure, and that is all.
The test map is coming very soon. Thank you for all your feedback up to this point, and thanks for playing the map with us once it's published.
10/02/2013 05:53 PMPosted by Kaivax
The test map is coming very soon. Thank you for all your feedback up to this point, and thanks for playing the map with us once it's published.
New changes Kaivax?

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