Gateway and Forge to make cannons?

General Discussion
What sort of problems would come up if, instead of being able to immediately warp in cannons after a Forge completes, the player also has to have a Gateway? It would probably delay any cannon rushes to the relief of Zerg and Protoss players. Any thoughts on this?
Interesting Idea.

Protoss players wouldn't buy it though.
Getting rid of forge fast expands are we?
I'm sure many Protoss players would be happy to know that they could at least get their Cybernetics Core up by the time it takes the four buildings to complete.
Don't like that idea.
I think that Protoss need to be able to FFE.

- A zerg player.
11/26/2013 06:04 PMPosted by Spyder
Getting rid of forge fast expands are we?


how would that get rid of ffe?
nexus
forge
gateway
double gas
cannon when 100% forge

i don't think anyone goes forge first unless they plan to cannon rush.
and there's nothing wrong with that, why fix it.

On another note, how about if zerg and terran needs a barracks/spawning pool AND a evolution chamber/engineering bay to build turrets.
sure
if both a rax and an engineering are required for marines
sure
if both a rax and an engineering are required for marines


And spawning pool and lair for zergling.
sure
if both a rax and an engineering are required for marines


And spawning pool and lair for zergling.

roach den*
11/26/2013 07:10 PMPosted by GoGoGo
roach den*

Roach Warren?
You guys are talking about units, a cannon can't move. Turrets only come into play if there are drops and/or air units coming.
I might be mistaken, but spines and spores used to require an Evolution Chamber along with the pool in WoL.
11/26/2013 07:12 PMPosted by Doncroft
roach den*

Roach Warren?

Roach Pool
11/26/2013 06:43 PMPosted by vaccine
Getting rid of forge fast expands are we?


how would that get rid of ffe?
nexus
forge
gateway
double gas
cannon when 100% forge

i don't think anyone goes forge first unless they plan to cannon rush.
and there's nothing wrong with that, why fix it.

On another note, how about if zerg and terran needs a barracks/spawning pool AND a evolution chamber/engineering bay to build turrets.


Nexus to forge is possible because the cannon will finish shortly after lings arrive at your base after the zerg does a 15 pool. If you need to wait for the gateway to finish before building a cannon a nexus first forge fast expand gets beaten by zerg's standard opening.
I usually get my cannon building before the gateway is done when I FFE.

Cannon rushes are not a problem unless you don't scout properly.
11/26/2013 07:21 PMPosted by Protoblaster
I might be mistaken, but spines and spores used to require an Evolution Chamber along with the pool in WoL.

You are mistaken. Spines and spores did need an Evo Chamber in WOL, but did not need a Spawning Pool to be built. Nor was the Pool the a prerequisite for the Evo Chamber; all you needed was a Hatch.

Also, this would kill, or at least maim the FFE. Currently, a Protoss can go either Forge -> Cannon -> Gateway or Forge -> Gateway -> Cannon depending on the what the Zerg is doing. Having to go straight from Forge to Gateway without the option at all to get a cannon leaves the Protoss vulnerable to an early Pool.
11/26/2013 07:48 PMPosted by LickABoss

Roach Warren?

Roach Pool


Ultralisk Spire
So the main problem is not being able to early expand against Zerg? Even with cannons, the Zerg has so many options against a fast expansion. Aren't there more creative ways to fast expand than NEEDING to have the cannons at the front? Probes for a minor defense maybe? Or an earlier Zealot than usual?
11/26/2013 06:04 PMPosted by Spyder
Getting rid of forge fast expands are we?


11/26/2013 08:45 PMPosted by Protoblaster
Aren't there more creative ways to fast expand than NEEDING to have the cannons at the front? Probes for a minor defense maybe?
So what happens when they make more than 6 lings and kill all your probes
What happens when the Zerg makes that many lings anyway? A six or ten pool is pretty rough to happen but making cannons won't necessarily help that because the lings can just run past the cannon, wouldn't a gateway and forge wall-off make more sense? It's the same thing as walling off the ramp with a zealot, only at the natural. Some maps would make this harder to do on, but every match against Zerg doesn't have to be FFE, does it?

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