Map pool is boring, especially for tanks.

General Discussion
Bring back some medium size maps with good tank spots again. I'm not asking for game breaking good spots, but an occasional spot to abuse that range with.

Why does every map in the ladder pool have to be so damn massive? Not ever ladder map needs to be GSL quality in terms of dragging out long balanced games. Why not exciting maps that make exciting situations both defensively and offensively?

I remember the old season maps much more fondly than I do current seasons. Most of these big maps are forgettable and boring. Even maps I wasn't a huge fan of because of things that were abused against me I would prefer over todays maps.

One specific example is on Delta Quadrant for those who remember this map. I was terran, so I had to think about this every time I played a Protoss. Basically at your natural, that was inside your base, Protoss could make a Pylon across the space gap and warp in units, directly into your natural. They could also try and knock at your front door while applying pressure on the side. While I found it annoying, and sometimes hard to hold, it was an interesting and exciting feature of the map.

Hell, you can even rotate in old ones once and awhile.

Some of my favorites :

Xel Naga Caverns
Antiga Shipyard
Shakuras Plateau
Scrap Station ( 2 port banshee anyone? )
Steps of War ( Rush Rush Rush! )
Shattered Temple
Delta Quadrant
Metalopolis

TL DR: Basically give us one or two more exciting / creative maps, rather than 100% big open boring maps. We still have vetos if it bothers us too much. Not only does it make the game more fun to play, but its also more entertaining for the viewers.
You actually dont have to go that far back in the pool to find some "exciting situations", remember the season of blink?

I hear you on the lack of creativity and too many colossal-forced-macrotype-maps, but i cannot allow myself to support imbalanced maps.
I do remember some of the maps you mentioned far above most of the recent maps in the mappools, however the memories are not all that lovely.

Tank drops on the mid ledge on shakuras plateau that can shoot into my poor zerg main was beyond infuriating and in lack for a better word: Broken.
Nimbus has some really nice tank spots outside the natural. I find them useful in TvZ and TvT.
I don't remember the name of the map, but you know the one with the destructible rocks behind your close 3rd that let you easily cross to the opposite horizontal bases? I saw a Terran in GSL try to put siege tanks back there to against a zerg to shell some of his base, which was right next to the rocks. He actually go to do a little bit of damage before the rocks were torn down. It was something anyway.
i think these terrans who judge the state of the entire game on how viable tanks are should have their game licenses taken away and be put in reeducation camps
07/26/2014 10:18 AMPosted by brickrd
i think these terrans who judge the state of the entire game on how viable tanks are should have their game licenses taken away and be put in reeducation camps


Damn those terrans for wanting to be able to use the other 2/3 of their tech tree from time to time. So spoiled!
07/26/2014 10:25 AMPosted by nomufftotuff
07/26/2014 10:18 AMPosted by brickrd
i think these terrans who judge the state of the entire game on how viable tanks are should have their game licenses taken away and be put in reeducation camps


Damn those terrans for wanting to be able to use the other 2/3 of their tech tree from time to time. So spoiled!
you sure made up a lot off the back of my point which was that tanks are a stupid unit
07/26/2014 10:51 AMPosted by brickrd
07/26/2014 10:25 AMPosted by nomufftotuff
...

Damn those terrans for wanting to be able to use the other 2/3 of their tech tree from time to time. So spoiled!
you sure made up a lot off the back of my point which was that tanks are a stupid unit


Tanks are and always have been one of the most tactical units in Starcraft II. Good spot? You win. Bad spot? You lose. Sieged? You win. Un-sieged? You lose. Don't know opponents army position? You lose. Take advantage of knowing enemies army position? You win. Target high value targets to protect your weak units ( Banes vs Marines for example )? You win. Don't target fire? You lose.

Do you remember WoL TvZ? It was by far the most exciting match up in Starcraft 2. It could be more exciting now with spider mines, but they don't work as a tank assist, more of a tank replacement.

If you think tanks should be as ignored as they are now, you don't know starcraft, and you shouldn't be playing it.

Either way my point remains, you can have a FEW maps that are more exciting, and make tanks slightly more viable, WITHOUT buffing them.
blizzard let me abuse cheap tactics!
07/26/2014 11:06 AMPosted by DoomDash
If you think tanks should be as ignored as they are now, you don't know starcraft, and you shouldn't be playing it.
i'm sorry for having a different opinion from yours about what makes the game good. please allow me to blow your massive dong in repentance

(get over yourself)
07/26/2014 11:13 AMPosted by brickrd
07/26/2014 11:06 AMPosted by DoomDash
If you think tanks should be as ignored as they are now, you don't know starcraft, and you shouldn't be playing it.
i'm sorry for having a different opinion from yours about what makes the game good. please allow me to blow your massive dong in repentance

(get over yourself)


It doesn't matter if you don't like tanks as a unit, but the point is he is right, they are a well designed tactical unit. Something Starcraft II only benefits from. Very few units compare.
07/26/2014 11:17 AMPosted by Huggles
07/26/2014 11:13 AMPosted by brickrd
...i'm sorry for having a different opinion from yours about what makes the game good. please allow me to blow your massive dong in repentance

(get over yourself)


It doesn't matter if you don't like tanks as a unit, but the point is he is right, they are a well designed tactical unit. Something Starcraft II only benefits from. Very few units compare.
i disagree

feel free to cry like he did that i'm an idiot and don't understand the game because i'm not fellating your opinion too
07/26/2014 11:29 AMPosted by brickrd
...

It doesn't matter if you don't like tanks as a unit, but the point is he is right, they are a well designed tactical unit. Something Starcraft II only benefits from. Very few units compare.
i disagree

feel free to cry like he did that i'm an idiot and don't understand the game because i'm not fellating your opinion too


You disagree with all the points about how mechanically tactical they are? That's fact, it's not up for debate, and even if it was you haven't presented a counter argument other than basically "NUH UNH!!!!".

Do you prefer A move units?
Honestly this is probably one of the better, and more diverse map pools we've had. We got maps like Merry go round which suit your desire for tankable cliff positions all over. And it's pretty dang small. The problem for you is more so that tanks such, than maps are bad. It's pretty hard to do much with tanks when hots speed/regen mutas are flocking around picking them off. And tank damage is pretty bad as well, compared to mines.

But if you don't believe me lets look at all the maps.

King Sejong Station LE - Varied attack paths. Very open, but also choked at very tight spots. Very aggressive map with so many attack paths.
Overgrowth LE - Very defensive with closed in spaces, and limited attack paths. Less dead air spots.
Catallena LE - Lots of dead air. Very droppable. First few bases are close, and easily defended via ground, but can be challenged by drops well.
Merry Go Round LE - Very small. The kind of map you're asking for. Fairly well droppable. Overall aggressive map.
Deadwing LE - Macro/turtle/powering mayhem
Foxtrot Labs LE - Very close quarters. If tanks don't work here they won't anywhere. Lots of cliffs everywhere.
Nimbus LE - Easily grabbed natural. Lots of open space.

Seems like a very diverse pool to me.

Personally I feel like the tankable cliff edges on Delta Quadrant is dumb and cheap. It's kind of neat for a second, but it's not going to make tanks better than the crap they are. We saw a few games on Yeonsu where terrans put tanks on the cliffs over a zergs third, but it was not really making tanks much better. And people just ended up transitioning to mines from it.

I like tanks as much as you. I'd love for them to be more viable. But you should be asking for buffs or design changes on tanks, rather than asking us to go backwards to silly early WOL maps where tank cliff edge cheese, and 2 base allins is king.
Am I the only one who remembers Bel'Shir Beach?
07/26/2014 11:11 AMPosted by Mallard
blizzard let me abuse cheap tactics!


protoss has been abusing them for almost a year now. why not anyone else?
07/26/2014 09:22 AMPosted by Shydralisk
You actually dont have to go that far back in the pool to find some "exciting situations", remember the season of blink?

I hear you on the lack of creativity and too many colossal-forced-macrotype-maps, but i cannot allow myself to support imbalanced maps.
I do remember some of the maps you mentioned far above most of the recent maps in the mappools, however the memories are not all that lovely.

Tank drops on the mid ledge on shakuras plateau that can shoot into my poor zerg main was beyond infuriating and in lack for a better word: Broken.


Imbalanced maps were how KeSPA balanced out BW. You give weak races advantages through maps to give them an even chance when they're in a bad spot in the metagame. And even if you don't, it creates exciting situations when you force players to come up w/new strategies to overcome the imbalances and tear everyone else a new one. Our current strategy w/map-making in SC2 has made the players "lazy". I don't mean they don't work hard, but I'm saying their responsibilities have become especially stabilized; all they need to do now is perfect their mechanics and all the maps are the same, so they don't have to worry about anything catching them off guard or switching up strategies/tactics.
Oh so many try to analyze balance, and forget the most basic thing: a game is not meant to be balanced, it is meant to be fun. Unless you are a pro and your money depends on it, the only thing you should care about is how fun the game is. And even if you are a pro - where do all the money come from? Sponsors who expect big audience, and audience expects fun games to watch!
This should be our first and foremost priority since the entire ecosystem of StarCraft gravitates around how interesting the gameplay is. Wonder why pro SC scene is on the decline? It's not because of LoL, I'll tell you that :) It's because the game stopped being fun.
Allowing AT LEAST tanks to work as intended will make the game way more interesting.
From the limited amount I've played this map pool, I gotta say I'm kinda of liking it.

Sure I'd love to see some old style maps, just to see how people adapt, but what we've got looks ok.

Although there is something to be said for forcing players to get out of comfort zones. I'd rather not have maps purely dicated by players, as they would all look basically the same.

Natural defendable, 3rds are easy to take, just enough chokes and open space, exactly correct rush distances and dead space.

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