Returning player after... 3ish years?

Zerg Discussion
So i've played a reasonable number of games, and well... stuffs a lot different now. Whats the general flow of the game/goal people are going for these days versus the different races? And where do people get replays nowadays?
ggtracker and sc2replaystats are the current replay sites, rip in pieces drop.sc.

Says you are zerg so basically

ZvT:

Hatch first, quick 3rd. Quick ups, just generally pretty greedy. Main things you face are hellbat all ins or hellion banshee, so either roaches or banes for the hellbats and queens, spores, lings etc for the banshees.

From there its bio or mech. Playing against mech is a bit harder to explain as its largely about ecocheesing where you can and making wildly different compositions to exploit the mech composition. In any case don't let them get mass raven. You can't beat mass raven with some BC's unless they let you chain fungal it to death. Often can involve going up to even sometimes 100 drones just to build bank for trading.

Bio is basically mines now, which involves micro in ling bane which can be tough. Terran generally gets rolling around 10:30 with their first bio pushes depending on how they open. Mines just got buffed again so its pretty volatile, Terrans were playing hellbat based bio before and some people still do that.

Against bio mine its very dynamic, attacking can be good, defending can be good, its very much about playing better, micro, macro, multitasking; its just generally very challenging and beyond some volatility with mines the better player wins most of the time.

Hellbat based bio is just kinda yucky, Don't be lulled into doing anything but sitting on your backside against it, you really just need a high bane count to slamdunk this style, eventually once you have enough economy and smash an army pretty hard you just abuse zergs remax ability to overrun them.

As for lategame tech its ultras or mass muta. Mass muta was popular until terrans remembered thors are awesome, can still be good but dealing with thors is a real issue. A few ultras help increase cost efficiency pretty good but don't go crazy, if you make too many u to ltras you quickly need to make infestors to root the bio to stop kiting and just generally move towards a pretty expensive and immobile army composition which may not be what you want to do.

One of the main points of personalisation atm is the hive timing which is generally just when you can get away with it; attempting to contest terran 3-3 timing is futile so you can either get a quick hive to try decrease the time they have an upgrade advantage or use the money from a late hive to help equalise that disadvantage with other things. Personally I am very much not a hive person but I never have been even in WoL. High 60's drone count for aggressive muta ling counter timing plays or up to the 80's for a more passive style.

Some people evangelise roach hydra. While it can win it is very much a strategy that stops working at a point. Most people fail to understand playing out roach hydra is more a consequence of a certain type of roach opener which relies on the ability to do big roach aggression to compromise for the weaknesses it has, as 1/1 roach all ins are very strong and a big concern of terrans scouting your base.
ZvP:

Hard matchup atm. Openings are 14p or 15h. Protoss will mostly gate expand, plenty will 13 forge and try cannon you, some will nexus first. 14p "beats" cannon rushes aka you don't die but probably won't get ahead, actually you still may die cannons are good. 14p has a bad time against gate expands because they block your expo and you either take a far base and risk being all inned like hell with 2 very far apart bases or you kill the pylon and expand. Another option is 3h before pool which beats both openings pretty well imo (cannon rushing 2 bases is just impractically expensive for protoss) however gives you 0% chance of surviving a proxy gate and 1 base all ins can be tough.

The whole ZvP meta is still pretty up in the air imo as basically no one has super solid reliable playstyles that seem to work consistantly. However one thing is very clear in ZvP. Mutalisks are undeniably imbalanced in the matchup and without good preparation protoss will be slaughtered by a big switch into mutalisks.

The issue is more finding ways to expose them to a mutalisk switch; preventing them getting phoenixs out and getting the gas income you need to fuel it early enough. Anyway lots of people have a lot of success doing aggression with pretty cheap units off 3 bases while taking another couple of bases, then slamming out a load of mutas and basetrading. Either stephano style roach ling aggression can work or later roach hydra viper timings or mass burrow move roaches, in any case you must not sit around protoss can invalidate these armies very quickly if you don't hit when the iron is hot. There are lots of ways to play out the matchup but not much feels super solid, people try SH styles and ling infestor styles with some degree of success.

Protoss opening with a gate expand often do 4-5 gate pressures that hit extremely early but with a nexus behind it, often into an immortal all in followup. This is the current protoss scum build and its super strong, however the recent timewarp nerf might help a lot vs it. Generally best thing to do vs this pressure is to take an econ hit early and make a good bunch of speedlings, try deny warp ins or overrun it before more than 4-5 zealots can get out. This stuff can hit as early as 6 mins its very strong. The other option is to not take a 3rd and play with 2 bases for imo far too long, they can always just not warp in against this and do an immortal sentry against your 2 base play, gl with that.

Against forge expand and nexus first its pretty similar to WoL with regards to 2 base all ins and such.

When playing mutas against phoenixs, add corruptors to zone them, eventually move into infestors to fungal them, depending on your economic situation and micro its winnable.
Hehe I blocked your ZvZ hehe

OverRustle
ZvZ: Roaches
07/29/2014 11:54 PMPosted by SliTaz
ZvZ: Roaches


Alternatively: Muta to force units that aren't roaches

Then build roaches and win because roaches.
07/29/2014 11:33 PMPosted by SliTaz
ZvP:

Hard matchup atm. Openings are 14p or 15h. Protoss will mostly gate expand, plenty will 13 forge and try cannon you, some will nexus first. 14p "beats" cannon rushes aka you don't die but probably won't get ahead, actually you still may die cannons are good. 14p has a bad time against gate expands because they block your expo and you either take a far base and risk being all inned like hell with 2 very far apart bases or you kill the pylon and expand. Another option is 3h before pool which beats both openings pretty well imo (cannon rushing 2 bases is just impractically expensive for protoss) however gives you 0% chance of surviving a proxy gate and 1 base all ins can be tough.

The whole ZvP meta is still pretty up in the air imo as basically no one has super solid reliable playstyles that seem to work consistantly. However one thing is very clear in ZvP. Mutalisks are undeniably imbalanced in the matchup and without good preparation protoss will be slaughtered by a big switch into mutalisks.

The issue is more finding ways to expose them to a mutalisk switch; preventing them getting phoenixs out and getting the gas income you need to fuel it early enough. Anyway lots of people have a lot of success doing aggression with pretty cheap units off 3 bases while taking another couple of bases, then slamming out a load of mutas and basetrading. Either stephano style roach ling aggression can work or later roach hydra viper timings or mass burrow move roaches, in any case you must not sit around protoss can invalidate these armies very quickly if you don't hit when the iron is hot. There are lots of ways to play out the matchup but not much feels super solid, people try SH styles and ling infestor styles with some degree of success.

Protoss opening with a gate expand often do 4-5 gate pressures that hit extremely early but with a nexus behind it, often into an immortal all in followup. This is the current protoss scum build and its super strong, however the recent timewarp nerf might help a lot vs it. Generally best thing to do vs this pressure is to take an econ hit early and make a good bunch of speedlings, try deny warp ins or overrun it before more than 4-5 zealots can get out. This stuff can hit as early as 6 mins its very strong. The other option is to not take a 3rd and play with 2 bases for imo far too long, they can always just not warp in against this and do an immortal sentry against your 2 base play, gl with that.

Against forge expand and nexus first its pretty similar to WoL with regards to 2 base all ins and such.

When playing mutas against phoenixs, add corruptors to zone them, eventually move into infestors to fungal them, depending on your economic situation and micro its winnable.


Just a note on your comment about getting pylon blocked going 14p vs a gate expo toss: if toss pylon blocks you, and you go 14p, you can actually proxy hatch his natural and go 4-6 queen gasless. The best he can do at this point is go 4 gate or 3 gate robo or w/e which, your gasless play can pretty easily beat out. PiG can vouche for this as well.
Sorry I utterly gave up any interest in proxy hatches after LosirA vs Puck on Polar Night. LosirA goes hatch first then hatch blocks, Puck takes 3rd base instead, LosirA cancels hatch block, Puck takes his natural aka third when the creep has receded, like 5 mins in. LosirA speedling all ins off 20 drones, can't kill either base.
07/30/2014 08:44 AMPosted by SliTaz
Sorry I utterly gave up any interest in proxy hatches after LosirA vs Puck on Polar Night. LosirA goes hatch first then hatch blocks, Puck takes 3rd base instead, LosirA cancels hatch block, Puck takes his natural aka third when the creep has receded, like 5 mins in. LosirA speedling all ins off 20 drones, can't kill either base.


It's amazing what a single cannon, a wall, and an MSC can kill.
07/29/2014 11:54 PMPosted by SliTaz
ZvZ: Roaches


PLZ!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAc4c-0qFXw

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