Balance Test Map Update - March 19

General Discussion
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Thank you everyone for helping us to playtest in the balance test map. We’re seeing a lot of support for this balance change and we’d really love to go ahead with the Swarm Host redesign patch after Season 1 ends. With only a small amount of high-level feedback and playtesting to draw from, we have some concerns that it may not be enough due to the scale of this change. Given what we have however, here are our current thoughts and plans:

  • We intend to publish this balance test patch around the end of Season 1/start of Season 2 timeframe.
  • We’ll closely watch how the changes affect the live game, and react with a follow up balance patch if necessary.

We like the direction of the latest balance test map, and the only change we’d like to make to the next balance test map is:

  • Tempest deal +14 massive damage to air.

We felt that by removing damage to massive, Tempests simply became too weak versus Colossi. We wanted to make a damage change to Tempests that would severely change how they interact versus Brood Lords, while less-severely affecting their relationship against Colossi. Changing their massive bonus to +14 felt like a good number because it doubles the number of shots Tempests take to kill Brood Lords, while changing the relationship vs. Colossi by about 67%.
Assuming the next round of balance test map testing goes well, we’d like to finalize the changes to a patch in early April. So, in total, the changes we’d be looking at for that patch are:

  • The Swarm Host redesign
  • The Point Defense Drone nerf
  • The Tempest +massive damage nerf
  • The Viper’s Blinding Cloud buff

Because we’re in the middle of March already, and we really need to lock down the changes for the next patch soon, this will officially be the final stage of this balance test map. It would follow then, that this is everyone’s last chance to provide feedback before a balance patch would be implemented. Judging from how things have been going with this round of balance testing, we don’t expect to fully iron out the details before we release the patch. However, we do think that it’s important to push out these changes in order to prevent the dragged out Swarm Host games that we’ve seen in WCS games, even if the current state of good balance breaks a little bit for a temporary duration. Rest assured that we will do our best to carefully watch, analyze, and evaluate the situation quickly if further adjustments are needed after the next patch goes out. Thank you as always for your help.
SO HAPPY ABOUT THIS THANKS MUCH!!!!
shoutout to the dankmeme crew
But can I just ask you (blizzard I guess) if you've seen the swarmhost showmatches that rotterdam08 hosted? I think they would very useful to learn from. However he has taken them down from his twitch I'm sure blizzard could find a way of watching them
STOKED for these changes. Well done blizzard, if only I could +1 this post QQ
nice :)
Remove the +massive bonus from tempest and give them a significant +shields damage bonus. So that they can still kill colossi in the same (or almost the same) amount of shots, but broodlords and battlcruisers are not affected. This will also make tempest a bit better against other protoss units, which isn't undesirable, if you ask me.
" Even if the current state of good balance breaks a little bit for a temporary duration. Rest assured that we will do our best to carefully watch, analyze, and evaluate the situation quickly if further adjustments are needed after the next patch goes out. "

When you said that i knew you already knew that this will screw the Zerg but you dont care since LotV will fix all balance issue so you can do this, shame on you blizz !

4 supply unit with 200 gas to harass 1 every minute ! Who will use that, no one in its right mind, its useless as hell.
BroodLord is late tech, it cant remplace the siege of old SH, and tempest/phoenix will kill them cuz they are way to slow !!

Also Viper buff to help roach/viper vs mech is not enough ! Roach/Viper vs mech is hard, you basically need to win with the push or you just die.

PDD nerf its useless since SH will never be used, they dont need ravens to screw us now, just A-move at 200/200

You will see this next season and you will adjust things only in LotV beta,
Im 100% sure you give 0 effort for HotS right now.
Blizzard may be up to something!
This is absolutely great for zerg. So broodlords will be almost twice as hard for protoss to kill while blinding cloud buff will be great for those pesky tanks while dodgeing vikings. Swarmhost sadly will see little use until they tweak some obvious things but aside from that it is shaping up to be pretty beastly
03/19/2015 11:04 AMPosted by DeathNote
" Even if the current state of good balance breaks a little bit for a temporary duration. Rest assured that we will do our best to carefully watch, analyze, and evaluate the situation quickly if further adjustments are needed after the next patch goes out. "

When you said that i knew you already knew that this will screw the Zerg but you dont care since LotV will fix all balance issue so you can do this, shame on you blizz !

4 supply unit with 200 gas to harass 1 every minute ! Who will use that, no one in its right mind, its useless as hell.
BroodLord is late tech, it cant remplace the siege of old SH, and tempest/phoenix will kill them cuz they are way to slow !!

Also Viper buff to help roach/viper vs mech is not enough ! Roach/Viper vs mech is hard, you basically need to win with the push or you just die.

PDD nerf its useless since SH will never be used, they dont need ravens to screw us now, just A-move at 200/200

You will see this next season and you will adjust things only in LotV beta,
Im 100% sure you give 0 effort for HotS right now.


You're extremely over exaggerating. With evidence in the show matches, Swarm hosts won't be maxed but they will be great at harassing, which means the added costs should equal out because of there design changes for harassing and more mobility. Seems like it fits Zerg quite well.
03/19/2015 11:16 AMPosted by Tinye
03/19/2015 11:04 AMPosted by DeathNote
" Even if the current state of good balance breaks a little bit for a temporary duration. Rest assured that we will do our best to carefully watch, analyze, and evaluate the situation quickly if further adjustments are needed after the next patch goes out. "

When you said that i knew you already knew that this will screw the Zerg but you dont care since LotV will fix all balance issue so you can do this, shame on you blizz !

4 supply unit with 200 gas to harass 1 every minute ! Who will use that, no one in its right mind, its useless as hell.
BroodLord is late tech, it cant remplace the siege of old SH, and tempest/phoenix will kill them cuz they are way to slow !!

Also Viper buff to help roach/viper vs mech is not enough ! Roach/Viper vs mech is hard, you basically need to win with the push or you just die.

PDD nerf its useless since SH will never be used, they dont need ravens to screw us now, just A-move at 200/200

You will see this next season and you will adjust things only in LotV beta,
Im 100% sure you give 0 effort for HotS right now.


You're extremely over exaggerating. With evidence in the show matches, Swarm hosts won't be maxed but they will be great at harassing, which means the added costs should equal out because of there design changes for harassing and more mobility. Seems like it fits Zerg quite well.


no im pretty honest, i played them... 4 supply and 200 gas is way to much, its better to use mutas.
and soon blizz will know to since nobody will make them.
03/19/2015 11:12 AMPosted by ScorpionKing
This is absolutely great for zerg. So broodlords will be almost twice as hard for protoss to kill while blinding cloud buff will be great for those pesky tanks while dodgeing vikings. Swarmhost sadly will see little use until they tweak some obvious things but aside from that it is shaping up to be pretty beastly


lol, yeah man zerg will finally win as many big tournaments as terran and protoss because woooooow no more swarm hosts (the only tool zerg had, now turned into a 30 seconds supply grave) and therefore broodlords that will a) never come into play since zergs will die before they can make them (tier 3) and b) would still get recked by tempests/oracle (it just takes a few seconds more, a few seconds that won't do sh** for zergs).

03/19/2015 11:16 AMPosted by Tinye
You're extremely over exaggerating. With evidence in the show matches, Swarm hosts won't be maxed but they will be great at harassing, which means the added costs should equal out because of there design changes for harassing and more mobility. Seems like it fits Zerg quite well.


let me guess you're neither a zerg player nor a zerg fan. you're just happy about not having to deal with sh anymore. yeah the new sh are great at harassing. but at a price that zergs at the very top tournament level will never be able to afford (supply and gas). they're already playing tower defense, especially against terran. but yaaaaaay blinding cloud has 1 more range. lol.
03/19/2015 11:26 AMPosted by DeathNote
no im pretty honest, i played them... 4 supply and 200 gas is way to much, its better to use mutas.
and soon blizz will know to since nobody will make them.


DeathNote creating the meta over here.
See?

This is the result guys, when none of you do balance testing on the map provided.

Blizzard proceeds to once again, make extremely small changes and nothing incredible or innovative to the unit in question.

In this case? No changes to SH at all. Mission accomplished guys.
i don't understand why don't you just remove the massive tag from broodlords, that way you can encourage more use in ZvP without affecting PvP
They have no idea what they are doing :/

Please blizzard give zerg a lategame without swarmhosts, and make SH into something that people would actually make in games.
PDD nerf is good for ZvT but will break lategame TvP.
Thx Dayvie for the update

I think at this moment SWH is a boring unit, both its the only unit that zerg have against templars, colossi and Mech. Maybe you must take care about all the units too! or tweak a little bit the redesign from SWH to make them more viable... maybe 30 seconds to spawn a new wave of locust.. maybe a reduction of the cost and eliminate the need of the burrow upgrade, and another suggestion is that make a way trough the zerg player can control if the locust go air or go normal..thats will provide more flexibility.

At the moment SWH is a Tier2 unit that requieres Burrow, that requiere upgrades and so on to make him functional... thats means is a unit that people can use for harash the protos or terran economy, at what time?, 12 or 14 mark?! so pointless because most of the pushes come before that timming and most of the players are maxed out in this mark with 3 bases and 70 workers.

If you want really make this unit viable, as early harrash unit, the zerg player must afford 4 or 6 of them an the 8-9 minutes mark, when is the time to take the 3rd from Terran and Protoss if they dont go 2 base all ins

Please take a note, i provide a replay against a Terran AI focus: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5872797

Finally, i suggest, if you want to people involve more active in the process of balance a patch, give uns a reward, like a portrait or WCS Points for the pros,, and provide a Officer that arrange match ups at an especific day and time ok---

Best regards and keep the good working
Tempest is a step in the right direction, but I think a few more changes need to be made. Here is my feedback that you asked for so please carefully consider.

Tempest
-Yes, good change

Void Ray
-Damaged changed from 6 +10 (+4 ) vs armored to 8 (+8 with prismatic vs armored) something like that or 6+ 6 (+4 with prismatic) vs armored
-Prevents Voids from killing corruptors as easily as they do now meaning BL are an option because they can be protected. Tempest/storm will need to support. With corruptors buffed then there is less need to turtle behind spores with vipers.

Viper
-Good

SH
200/100 3 supply
-15 second locust/25 second cool down
-Enduring locust replaced by flying locust
-35 second cool down and massive supply cost will not work in hots. it will leave zerg way too vulnerable. 10 seconds still leaves plenty of time for armies to reposition between waves especially late game when if all zerg has is sh then they are in trouble. This will still allow SH to be a viable defensive tool mid game and allow for transitions.

Brood Lord
-Speed increased from 1.4062 to 1. 88 (HOTS campaign speed)
-Slight speed buff to allow them more mobility. This will put them on par with with carries/tempest and Battle cruisers. Allowing for them them to reposition better means that the enemy can't just run around them all day.

Raven
-Good

Siege tank
Bonus vs armored down to 10 from 15 (Siege mode)
-If you are pushing viper/roach mid game vs mech decreasing bonus damaged to armored will help roaches out, and since few terrans go mech vs protoss it shouldn't affect that matchup too much. Same with mech terran because Marauders have less HP than roaches so it shouldn't affect it that much.
03/19/2015 11:41 AMPosted by Voir
See?

This is the result guys, when none of you do balance testing on the map provided.

Blizzard proceeds to once again, make extremely small changes and nothing incredible or innovative to the unit in question.

In this case? No changes to SH at all. Mission accomplished guys.
Release a match making for the test changes, can't believe that we are forced to waste 1 hour to find an equal oppoentn

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