Community Feedback Update 7/15

General Discussion
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Community Summit
We had our biggest community summit this week lasting two full days. The first day included around thirteen hours of discussions, hanging out, and eating food, and the second day was a full day of working with discussions and feedback. We wanted to first extend a massive ‘thank you’ to everyone who came out, especially the players and influencers who had to fly to Valencia right away for Dreamhack this weekend. We had many discussions across a wide variety of topics including esports, what should come next for StarCraft, the current state of the game, and ideas on how to generally improve the Starcraft 2 game going forward.

There was a massive amount of information, and we will definitely have more info to share across these fronts as we work through the various feedback, suggestions, and ideas that were generated at this event.

Map Improvements
The new maps have definitely been a big topic within the community recently, so we also took the time to work through some current map improvements. Since we not only had two of the top mapmakers in the world, Jacky and Avex, but also the GSL partners who have been gauging and judging maps for years on site, we took the time to drill down into how we can make each of the new maps better. Below we’d like to discuss changes we came to regarding two of the maps.

Galactic Process
The two main changes here that we’ve came up with were adding the destructible rocks on the backdoor paths, but at a much farther distance than where they used to be so that it’s not so easy for the defender to just check if the rocks are being broken. The majority of the map related influencers agreed that the rock removal was good, due to it being so easy to watch over the rocks + there’s very little reason to utilize that attack path. However, due to early game defenses being a bit more difficult to due this change, a potentially better solution that was proposed was to add the rocks back, but much further away from the natural expansion.

The other change to this map was to add an unpathable area near the natural expansion area to make one of the paths narrower, which would make early game defense a bit easier.

If you guys agree with these two changes, we will work towards implementing these changes as soon as possible.

Dasan Station
The main change that we arrived at for this map was to add a path that is rocked off by rocks that players can use to go between the outer parts of the map towards the center parts of the map. The reason is that the biggest downside currently seems to be if the army is out of position, it’s too difficult to get back in position, and it takes too long to mine out the high yield base before it’s possible to move back and forth.

Unless the community has substantial reason against this change, we’ll look to get this added in as well.

Balance
Balance discussions seemed to indicated that the general consensus is that balance is much better than it has been in the past. Still, there were two points which were of intense focus during the summit.

There was a heavy emphasis on how we should not overreact with changes because even pros don’t know what the exact effects of the changes are.

These discussions were very interesting, because we noticed that even when someone started a conversation saying ‘X’ is a huge problem, others might ask the person how certain he or she is, and that person often replied by saying something like “yeah I really don’t know for certain right now.”

Nerf Warp Prism drops by reducing Warp Prism HP/Shield

  • Surprisingly, this was the only unanimous potential change that came up.
  • The reasoning for this change (instead of something like speed) was to allow the players who use Warp Prisms really well to be able to continue using them at a strong state, whereas players who aren’t as efficient with the Warp Prism micro should have a bit more trouble being successful with drops after a change like this.

Interestingly, some of those who attended have reached out to say that the Queen buff is working so well that a Warp Prism change may not be necessary from the ZvP angle. Regardless of whether the change is necessary, this just reinforces our belief that we need more time to gauge the exact effects of recent patches before we make further changes to related things.

We’ll continue to discuss the topics of the summit in the coming weeks, but we wanted to get these discussions in front of you right away as they are more immediately relevant. Please let us know your feedback, and thank you!
I think something went wrong there is nothing here.

EDIT oh there is something now. cool.
Warp prism actually deserves a gas cost.
07/15/2016 10:32 AMPosted by Nomisking
I think something went wrong there is nothing here.


Refresh worked for me :)
07/15/2016 10:34 AMPosted by TrollDlaMeus
Wrap prism actually deserves a gas cost.


That's a reasonable alternative IF it needs to be nerfed. It's not like Warp Prisms are flying Immortals. xD

The gas cost would have to be fairly cheap though like 25-50. Protoss is a very gas heavy race.

As for Dasan, I think the real issue is less the inability to traverse and more that the rocks at the back of the base are too easily destroyed, opening up multiple paths into the main too early.

I'd rather just see "super" destructible rocks on this map to delay rather than a new path which circumvents the unique and frankly, fun design. Unless the path ends up being an elevated catwalk bride or something that goes over existing terrain.

Queen buff helped Zerg defend harass significantly more, now with 6-8 queens, you can push away drops, defend liberators and do more than have lings follow the tankivac, praying they don't start abusing a good cliff position.

Overall, this is the best patch you guys have come up with for LotV. The imbalance is finally startying to dissipate, though there are still some glaring design issues such as the Liberator countering most of its counters and thus acting as a lynchpin.
-10 HP for WP will save the day. I thing that there will be at least 10 possible big changes but I was a fool to think that.
WP nerf might mean that a well placed widow mine might kill it instanteanously, which would be cool, making it much more dangerous for toss to execute.
07/15/2016 10:17 AMPosted by Dayvie
Balance
Balance discussions seemed to indicated that the general consensus is that balance is much better than it has been in the past.

This is entirely dependent on which period you're comparing it to. Has it been better than Blord/Infestor or Blink era? Yes. Has it better than the latter half of 2013 before the widow mine nerf? Not even close.

And after watching DH: Valencia it's very clear that balance has gotten worse thanks to the last patch.
I am most interested in
07/15/2016 10:17 AMPosted by Dayvie
what should come next for StarCraft,

Can you share anything ?
The reasoning for this change (instead of something like speed) was to allow the players who use Warp Prisms really well to be able to continue using them at a strong state, whereas players who aren’t as efficient with the Warp Prism micro should have a bit more trouble being successful with drops after a change like this.


"players who use warp prisms really well" -> pros.
"players who aren't as efficient" -> casuals.

So we're keeping status quo for pros (where protoss is strong), and making it harder for casuals (where protoss suffer from low representation and win rate). Blizz. Srsly. What's wrong with your heads???
07/15/2016 10:52 AMPosted by Winks
07/15/2016 10:17 AMPosted by Dayvie
Balance
Balance discussions seemed to indicated that the general consensus is that balance is much better than it has been in the past.

This is entirely dependent on which period you're comparing it to. Has it been better than Blord/Infestor or Blink era? Yes. Has it better than the latter half of 2013 before the widow mine nerf? Not even close.

And after watching DH: Valencia it's very clear that balance has gotten worse thanks to the last patch.


Unquestionably. Zerg is WAY too strong un ZvT unless you're one of 5 or 6 Koreans, and Terran is also too strong if you happen to be one of these 5 or 6.

Terran needs to have micro rewarded less but the bare units be a bit stronger, and Zerg needs to be able to achieve greater heights with better micro. That will balance it across regions.
07/15/2016 10:49 AMPosted by Mietoen
WP nerf might mean that a well placed widow mine might kill it instanteanously, which would be cool, making it much more dangerous for toss to execute.


That's why it shouldn't happen. Widow Mines are alreqady quite good vs protoss. They don't need to be any better vs the harass protoss needs to score in order to prevent mass liberators before Tempests can be produced in a high volume.
A) About the maps I like these changes and I am glad you are paying attention to those details.

B)About balance.Even if you don't want to touch things related to the queen buff, how about publishing a test map with other changes like adjusting cyclones and other stuff.It is just a test map so in the time the meta settles we can start testing things.It is frustrating every time I hear that you are testing internally but we don't see a single test map for weeks in a row.
No sticky?
07/15/2016 10:45 AMPosted by xandar
-10 HP for WP will save the day. I thing that there will be at least 10 possible big changes but I was a fool to think that.


07/15/2016 10:49 AMPosted by Mietoen
WP nerf might mean that a well placed widow mine might kill it instanteanously, which would be cool, making it much more dangerous for toss to execute.


My guess is they'll drop the HP/shield total to 170 to 180, so that ravagers can 3-shot them but at the same time keep them in play without getting killed by a widow mine.
07/15/2016 10:56 AMPosted by Ulrezaj
The reasoning for this change (instead of something like speed) was to allow the players who use Warp Prisms really well to be able to continue using them at a strong state, whereas players who aren’t as efficient with the Warp Prism micro should have a bit more trouble being successful with drops after a change like this.


"players who use warp prisms really well" -> pros.
"players who aren't as efficient" -> casuals.

So we're keeping status quo for pros (where protoss is strong), and making it harder for casuals (where protoss suffer from low representation and win rate). Blizz. Srsly. What's wrong with your heads???
07/15/2016 10:52 AMPosted by Winks
07/15/2016 10:17 AMPosted by Dayvie
Balance
Balance discussions seemed to indicated that the general consensus is that balance is much better than it has been in the past.

This is entirely dependent on which period you're comparing it to. Has it been better than Blord/Infestor or Blink era? Yes. Has it better than the latter half of 2013 before the widow mine nerf? Not even close.

And after watching DH: Valencia it's very clear that balance has gotten worse thanks to the last patch.


Yeah look at those Zergs dominating GSL and SSL right now...
Summit: I would like to know what generell topics were adressed. Without anything specific or any promises

Maps: I let the map balance talk to other people since I havn't played new maps that many times.

Balance:
(warning: protoss perspective)
Warp Prisma Nerf: highly dislike the idea right now, because of the last Queen AA Buff. Its became already harder to nerf Zerg. Against Terran I dont think that a HP Nerf would change that much. But tbh I dont see that much of a problem.
I rather would like to see that Queen AA Buff taken back. The Spore change was imo enough to fight Liberator harassment.
If u nerf WP HP or shield 1 widow mine can instantly kill it. I think it's really bad design, when 1 unit can defend u from all type of harass (oracle instakill by mine too).

If u want nerf WP need and WM, because terran will be invul too all types of harras from toss.

And need revert queen range buff. It's really too powerful. Better nerf liberator AG mode, by decreasing range AG mode by 1.

P.S: Sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language
only worrying about ZvP and not worrying how WP play hurts TvP as always Terran is forgotten

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