Community Feedback Update - 9/9

General Discussion
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09/09/2016 10:39 AMPosted by DonaldTrump
I like the idea of buffing unpopular units.


Believe it or not, many people like the void ray.
09/09/2016 10:15 AMPosted by DamageINC
Great a thread with 0 content. Kind of like your balance updates.


And it's still better than 90% of your whiny posts.
i hope you will nerf the swarmhost asap.

the current swarmhost seems to be very overpowered (especially against mech).

also i honestly can't believe that you buff ravagers against mech again.

ravagers absolutely hardcounter tanks...

strong ravagers make it impossible for mech to push out because they can kite and always snipe important units like tanks. the new hydralisks is also extremely good at kiting and sniping important units because they have increased range and movement speed. this makes hellbats for example super weak now because if you try to push out, your army gets kited and when your frontline is killed the zerg can easily engage your tanks and kill you.

another problem is the current viper, parasitic bomb makes terran air too weak, the spell can't get avoided even with high level control. you always take too much damage.

when vipers counter vikings, what can a mech player use to counter the viper ? the current viper counters it's counter and that's unacceptable.

you have to either remove parasitic bomb or redesign it so that it stays on the targeted location and deals AOE damage over time. this way, the terran player could try to avoid the parasitic bomb and micro around it.

the new hydralisk range is also very good at dealing with air.

another big problem is the new tempest ability, raven turret DPS (i'd prefer a small PDD buff), cyclone being a little bit too strong in the early game, has no defensive value (not good against oracles,...) and completely useless past that point.

baneling buff and zealot nerf will make bio much worse in the testmap.

bio will probably be too weak against mech as well because tanks are stronger now and marauder got nerfed.

adept shade needs an increased cooldown.
09/09/2016 10:12 AMPosted by Dayvie
Warp Prism health decreased from 100 health 100 shields to 80 health 100 shields


Sounds fine to me, if it only costs minerals (compared to medivac and nydus) it should have a downside and being fragile is an interesting one.

09/09/2016 10:12 AMPosted by Dayvie
Voidray speed increased from 3.15 to 3.5


You're worrying me haha but I'll live even if that goes through. It can just be super frustrating as zerg to have dead space abused by early air units but mass void is a pretty easy strategy to beat and easy to scout as well.

09/09/2016 10:12 AMPosted by Dayvie
Ravager back to unarmored flag


Thank you so much. It would feel so silly to fight a bio terran for 8 minutes then trying to attack and finding out 'oh he's got 2-3 tanks, guess my army is useless now' when roach ravager was already on a timer and would become useless anyway at around 10 minutes.

I'm still a bit worried for terran bio and protoss ground though. If medivacs, adepts and blink aren't enough mobility to fight the tanks then it could be really bad for the meta imo.

But great stuff overall, and thanks for an eta on the balance matchmaking.
09/09/2016 11:44 AMPosted by Ace
I'm still a bit worried for terran bio and protoss ground though. If medivacs, adepts and blink aren't enough mobility to fight the tanks then it could be really bad for the meta imo.


If you mean XvT in regards to breaking Tank Lines then I already have some ideas that should work.

1. Banshees with the rotor upgrades should be great at flying in to do some damage and leave by the time Marines get into position or a scan comes in.

2. Liberators with Advanced Ballistics should be able to target Siege Tanks and ... Liberate the Tank areas if they're covered to prevent Marines from taking them down.

3. Protoss can use the new Void Rays, maybe.

4. Protoss can use Phoenix to lift the Siege Tanks and charge in with Zealots and whatever else.

5. The new Tempest ability could force them to move their Tanks

6. Adepts can still shade on top of everything.
Finally.
The balance map matchmaking will bring alot of people back to the game.
While there'sno point commenting on the test changes atm, because everything will become obvious when the matchmaking goes through, I'd rather see the Ravager with more health than the roach and the armored tag than unarmored and less.
Can't wait until we get the test map matchmaking, at least. I'll hold off on ranting about Disruption Sphere until then at least.
They should take out the tanks damage buff not the flag on the ravagers... the flag makes a lot of sense in making the roach/ravager or hydra/lurker tech build more of a choice and eliminating the easiness that is building only one structure (roach warren) and having two different kinds of armies if wanted.
Also, this warp prism nerf is horrible dont do that. Also YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE TEMPEST CRISIS I CANT BELIEVE YOURE SERIOUSLY NOT THINKING THIS IS ABSURD. Just get the tempest the way it was before, youve already buffed the hell out of every terran tech units so theres no need to ALSO nerf protoss counter. Also, the supply increase in the tempest seems like a reasonable nerf so do that instead of the ground range nerf and that deathball op spell
@Zephyn

Yeah I just don't know terran and protoss well enough to predict whether those things will be effective so I'm a little worried. I watched a bio v mech tvt that some friends of mine played and the bio just melted to the tanks so fast, I'm just worried that there might not be enough options to fight the tank lines in the mid-game. Or that there will be easy ways to defend the tank lines with turrets etc. But I'm waiting to see how it plays out.

The liberator range rush is an interesting idea btw, I hadn't thought of that.
And maybe vikings could work since their ground mode has a +mechanical bonus now and they're cheap, mobile, and reactorable. So they might be able to punish undefended areas really well.

Side note: pretty interesting that the viking ground mode is returning back to the original design concept. I remember back when sc2 was first announced there were all these videos explaining the roles of the new units and vikings were supposed to be anti air + potential to go on raiding missions and harass mineral lines etc. Wish I knew how to find those again :\
This may just shift ravager back into being a mindless option. Roach/Ravager will just dominate. There also will be no situation where roachs are better than ravager.
09/09/2016 12:08 PMPosted by Gale
This may just shift ravager back into being a mindless option. Roach/Ravager will just dominate. There also will be no situation where roachs are better than ravager.

Exactly. The flag on the ravagers are necessary to make it all make sense. What they could do is they could remove this tank damage buff.
Still nothing about the economy?.. I miss having option doing one or two base builds without being completely screwed..
Great update, but what happened to updates on separate MMR per race? Should we expect that next patch too? Honestly that's the only thing keeping me from laddering atm! :(
09/09/2016 12:13 PMPosted by Ultrajante
Exactly. The flag on the ravagers are necessary to make it all make sense. What they could do is they could remove this tank damage buff.


No.

Terran needs the buff for the sake of design. There is more to it than just Tank vs Ravager. If Tankivac is going to be removed then Tank needs the increase in damage to be a viable option. If a unit is going to be immobile like that, then it needs to have high damage output.

Besides, there is no reason for any player to just waltz into a tank line with a-move and spam their unit abilities everywhere. There are enough counters to the current Tank, we could at least make the Tank better to make up for it.
09/09/2016 10:12 AMPosted by Dayvie
Voidray speed increased from 3.15 to 3.5
Although used a lot in lower levels, Void Rays have not seen much use in competitive play throughout LotV, so we wanted to test what the game would be like if we made them more viable.
We are targeting a speed increase to increase their capability when micro’d, while keeping them similar in lower levels of play.


Majority of the community are the ones without a skill and you are making even harder for them to hold VoidRays play. Your decisions driving away already dwindling community. If anything - Toss air should be nerfed, not buffed. If you buff VoidRays, at least reduce the viability of Carriers or Temptest.
DK, I really think you are out of touch with what community wants. Please go back to reality, this game should be Community orientated, not those 20-30 top pro players.
09/09/2016 12:39 PMPosted by CommManager
making even harder for them to hold VoidRays play


build hydralisks, their direct counter and not really hard to control. Do our race a favor by not giving us a reputation of whining about nothing kthx
Wait, so are these 'balance test map' changes being added to the current list of changes in the Frost map, extension mod, as well as the matchmaking coming soon?
09/09/2016 01:06 PMPosted by Storm
Wait, so are these 'balance test map' changes being added to the current list of changes in the Frost map, extension mod, as well as the matchmaking coming soon?


I guess so, but the Frost map is still in 1.1 version. I would also like it be updated.
Hear me, making the Ravager non armored will negate Tanks COMPLETELY in ZvT. Terrans are only able to defend Roach Ravager all ins only because of microed Tankivacs. You pushed too far now that Tankivacs are gone.

Decreasing the tank damage to 60 vs armored instead of 70 while keeping the Ravager armored would be the way to go in my opinion. The tank will still deal a good damage but it would not be overkill for Ravagers. Tank will need 3 shots to kill a Ravager instead of 2 with 70 damage.

Please, reconsider that.

Edit: all the other changes seem very good to me. Nice to read.
09/09/2016 12:54 PMPosted by AntiQQSquad
09/09/2016 12:39 PMPosted by CommManager
making even harder for them to hold VoidRays play


build hydralisks, their direct counter and not really hard to control. Do our race a favor by not giving us a reputation of whining about nothing kthx


Fnx for telling how to counter them but I have no problems. I'm talking about those who are in Bronze-Gold leagues and feel frustrated because of VoidRays. Those guys are the biggest part of the community.

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