1gate FE vs zerg (lotv)

Protoss Discussion
How do you 1gate FE while still being able to hold off ling pressure?
On which map?

The general rule is to use your buildings to mostly wall off, then stick a zealot/adept in the gap, but where you do that depends a lot on the map.

If you uploaded a replay, that'd help, too.
I meant like from your main base ramp.
On most maps the pylon ring should be touching the top of the ramp.

Drop a gateway to partially wall off (scout)

Drop you nexus
Place a cybercore right next to gateway leaving one pixel open.

Pump out an Adept and either scout with it again or leave it on hold position.

The only time the 19 nexus is questionable is if when you gateway scout you see a pool before a hatch. It could be them playing safe or aggression. I'll plop out a zealot and another gateway to close the wall and keep my probe at their natural. Usually two zealots will hold off early aggression.
On Galactic Process, Frost, and(I think) New Gettysberg, you can wall off with a gateway, cyber, and pylon on the nat ramp, which is slightly worse against baneling busts, but far, far better against pretty much everything else.
Galactic process I think the wall off is a little more involved. I just wall off at the ramp and then place a pylon and gateway in between the nexus and ramp so they could only get in by where the destructible thing is at the bottom of the ramp.

I'm not a big fan of huge wall offs. Seems when I do it they ling flood me before it's finished.
10/23/2016 04:35 PMPosted by noobtastic
Galactic process I think the wall off is a little more involved. I just wall off at the ramp and then place a pylon and gateway in between the nexus and ramp so they could only get in by where the destructible thing is at the bottom of the ramp.

...it only takes an extra pylon on galactic process. From there, you've got 2 free bases, plus your main.
This 1 gate FE meta sucks, I like more good old forge fast expand

FFE
pros:
- safe vs 95% of zerg openers
- fast upgrades boosting mid game pushes
- ability to deny zerg hatches (cannon rush)
- you can always go nexus first and be safe

cons:
- somehow weak vs ravager allin
- rely on probe scouting

1 gate FE
pros:
- faster tech
- ability to harras zerg early with adepts
- good scouting with adepts

cons:
- heavy rely on msc for defense, weak vs many zerg allins
- cant punish early hatches from zerg
- slower upgrades
Forge Fast Expand is only useful if your canon rushing the Natural which is almost a freebee.

The major downside to a FFE is you'll behind the tech power curve.

I did it from Silver to Gold because I couldn't play against a macro Zerg. 3 hatch seemed almost broken to me. But once you learn how to use Adeots early game you can get a lot of drone kills and slow the macro monster down.

Now that I off race Zerg at Silver right now I notice a lot of Protoss players just don't do any early damage they just mass units and sit outside their base. If you do thatZerg will drone and than you'll just get hit with wave after wave of units until you crumble.
If you're playing any semi-decent zerg, they'll just roach/ravager all-in you, bust down the cannon, and roll over you because you won't have much tech out.

If you're playing in lower leagues, you might be able to get away with it, but it's fundamentally worse for you.
Or Nydus your main.
10/24/2016 07:29 AMPosted by noobtastic
Or Nydus your main.

Yeah, but you can stop that with just pylons and probes.
Guys wtf are u talking about, FFE nexus 1st is the best economic protoss build vs zerg, you can harras zerg 3rd while taking one for yourself or just 2 base allin him with superior upgrades thx to early forge

10/24/2016 04:54 AMPosted by noobtastic
The major downside to a FFE is you'll behind the tech power curve
But your economy is much better, so faster tech will give u advantage only in mid game.

10/24/2016 04:54 AMPosted by noobtastic
But once you learn how to use Adeots early game you can get a lot of drone kills
This will not happen vs decent zerg, u cant rely your gameplay around hoping that your enemy will make mistakes and loss dozen of drones, with current queen ling spore meta I barely see how killing 2-4 drones slow down the zerg

10/24/2016 04:54 AMPosted by noobtastic
Protoss players just don't do any early damage they just mass units and sit outside their base. If you do thatZerg will drone and than you'll just get hit with wave after wave of units until you crumble.
Because when playing FFE u need to hit certain timing window, for example when zerg is spent all larva on drones, if u hit too late it will be 3 bases vs 2 which is nono

10/24/2016 05:54 AMPosted by Wobulating
If you're playing any semi-decent zerg, they'll just roach/ravager all-in you, bust down the cannon, and roll over you because you won't have much tech out
Thats why u scout with probe, if u see that zerg has zero probes in 3rd or lack of 3rd base u just add more cannons and making units with good simcity you will be okay. FFE got more problems with tier 1 droplords and 3 ravager allin (both builds are cheeses) than holdin roach ravager, I would say msc based defence is worse at holding this allin than FFE,

10/24/2016 07:29 AMPosted by noobtastic
Or Nydus your main.

You cant stop nydus anyway because they are invincible, so no matter if u went FFE or 1gateFE, if u arent prepared u are dead

10/24/2016 07:54 AMPosted by Wobulating
Yeah, but you can stop that with just pylons and probes.
Queens use transfuse on nydus, pylons die in seconds, u actually need units to hold, not rely on workers lulz what league are u?

10/24/2016 05:54 AMPosted by Wobulating
If you're playing in lower leagues, you might be able to get away with it, but it's fundamentally worse for you.
I am able to get away with it at mid masters lvl, not sure why it is fundamentally worse for me while I played this style since WoL beta and it still works. Just because pro gamers abuse overpowered adepts doesnt mean 1 gate FE is the only viable build out there.
10/24/2016 10:10 AMPosted by MiloViper
Guys wtf are u talking about, FFE nexus 1st is the best economic protoss build vs zerg, you can harras zerg 3rd while taking one for yourself or just 2 base allin him with superior upgrades thx to early forge

Because the moment your opponent scouts it, they can either
a) Ravager all-in you and kill you because your main defense will be cannons, which ravagers are great at killing. You won't have significant amounts of robo units out by then, which you'll need.
or b) Take 5 bases unopposed because you won't get able to put on any pressure. From there, they can do... basically whatever they want.

You have slightly faster upgrades, yes, but at the cost of all your early-game damage, and that's not a good trade.

Thats why u scout with probe, if u see that zerg has zero probes in 3rd or lack of 3rd base u just add more cannons and making units with good simcity you will be okay. FFE got more problems with tier 1 droplords and 3 ravager allin (both builds are cheeses) than holdin roach ravager, I would say msc based defence is worse at holding this allin than FFE,

How do cannons help against ravagers?
Also, if they're even halfway competent, they'll deny scouting with a few units and keep you from seeing everything else.

You're correct- an MSC-based defense is also terrible against ravager all-ins. Immortals, though, are not, and you won't have those anytime soon with an FFE.

Queens use transfuse on nydus, pylons die in seconds, u actually need units to hold, not rely on workers lulz what league are u?

Diamond.

You surround the nydus with pylons/probes on hold position to stop it from unloading. Then, you can kill it at your leisure.

10/24/2016 10:10 AMPosted by MiloViper
I am able to get away with it at mid masters lvl, not sure why it is fundamentally worse for me while I played this style since WoL beta and it still works. Just because pro gamers abuse overpowered adepts doesnt mean 1 gate FE is the only viable build out there.

Really? Because on your match history, I'm seeing "There are no games to display in this selected match history."

If you decided to look up Wobulator, my main account, then you'd see where I am.
Are you playing HOTS?
10/24/2016 01:44 PMPosted by noobtastic
Are you playing HOTS?

He doesn't play anything, as far as I can tell.

FFE
pros:
- safe vs 95% of zerg openers
- fast upgrades boosting mid game pushes
- you can always go nexus first and be safe


... but if you get drone scouted you can just "safely" leave the game lol. It has no answer for droplords regardless of map.
pull like 8 probes, build a zealot. micro ,keep building probes. do this until you can get your wall up
I don't understand how a FFE is more economical than a 19 probe nexus. Or even worth attempting.
11/17/2016 04:09 AMPosted by noobtastic
I don't understand how a FFE is more economical than a 19 probe nexus. Or even worth attempting.

Economically-speaking, an FFE is far better than a 1-gate FE because you don't need to build nearly so many units. However, you'll die to ravager busts, so it's not really a concern.

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