Community Feedback Update - January 6

General Discussion
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Happy New Year everyone! We have a short update this week, but there are a few things we wanted to bring up or respond to.

It’s looking like it would be good to do a small buff to Hydralisks, and a health buff seems like the first step we should try. Let’s start discussing a +10 health to hydralisks, and go from there. Let’s discuss if we should do a base Hydra health buff or an upgrade that buffs the health.

Tournaments and balance
Tournaments have started going this year, so we should look for any “absolute must” balance changes that need to happen. We definitely see the concerns such as early/mid game PvT right now, but we’d like to strike a good balance between giving players enough time to adjust to new strategies vs. stepping in to make balance changes.

Map Pool
We also noticed that there were many discussions around how we picked the maps for GSL, and wanted to clear up this misunderstanding. GSL has been picking what is right for their own map pool for a long time now, and we have no intention of forcing GSL to use specific maps including any of the ladder maps. We believe GSL is a strong partner that really knows the Korean pro scene well, and are confident that they can and will make the right calls on the map choices in order to make the GSL as awesome as possible.

And also to note, we’re not going to be carrying over the off-season maps into this season. The new maps that we announced last month will go into Season 1 in less than 2 weeks.

As we’ve discussed before, we will be going with all new community maps and cut the oldest maps from the pool before the off season pool. So the actual maps will be:


We hope you enjoy the new map pool, and be sure to check out GSL today which is starting in just a few hours!
Good looking map pool, I look forward to it!

I like the 10 hp buff, I am not sure if it should base increase or upgrade, we should test and see.

Overall I believe this should be good choice since Liberators do too much damage and this isn't really a direct nerf to Liberator defender mode but it helps Zerg.

I personally am not worried about tournament games but it's cool to let GSL pick their maps for their scene, good on you guys.
love the pool
As far as PvT is concerned, maybe try experimenting with P early game units/structure with number changes. Something like reduced gas cost on Sentries or minor damage/range buffs on Stalkers. I'm just spit balling here, but I think the latest changes show what a few number tweaks can do for a race.
I like the hydra buff as it was supposed to go through a redesign anyway. I can't imagine cramming in so much stuff into a single upgrade (range, speed, AND health) so I'm guessing that's going to be a separate one. I think testing at 90 HP would be better and then rolling it back to an upgrade if need be when it goes live, just to see how strong or weak it is.
Only 6 maps for next season? Anyhow I personally feel the off season has been the best experience of starcraft for me mostly because of the maps rather than balance changes. So is it possible that 1v1 map pool would contain at least one of the fan favorite/nostalgic maps? Or give a chance to Rak'Shir and Skyshield GSL maps because they looked pretty awesome and I was actually expecting at least Rak'Shir on the map pool because of it seemed offer a lot different types of games. Anyways thanks for reading feedback and have a great day Dayvie!

EDIT: Ok so Honorgrounds was the last map, thanks for updating
Personally I would like to see hydras be a bit cheaper and maybe less dps to compensate. The problem with Hydra tech is that it's late in the tech tree kind of being at tier 2. It's a dead end tech that doesn't get to hive. Hydras are rather expensive for their role and lurkers take forever to get to so there is that. I just think that giving them more HP might have them overlap with roaches some due to roaches being about HP and suitability. I'd rather see hydras are more damage dealers that are cheap but fragile AKA Glass cannons. I'd rather a a fragile hydra that is a bit cheaper like 50/50 maybe or 75/50 at the least.
We definitely see the concerns such as early/mid game PvT right now, but we’d like to strike a good balance between giving players enough time to adjust to new strategies vs. stepping in to make balance changes.

well cya sc2- terra is clearly broken- this anwer tells me how bad the balance team relly is- its like always: toss have big big problems vs X race and always the same answer: lets wait till the meta and new ways settelted down - strange- why zerg get a hydra buff- ah wait casue david loves Zerg and hates Protoss - many protoss left the game- liberator and tanks domination left and right- zest/classic and stats all struggling very hard- Zest is out of gsl- guess vs what race? For sure vs Terran- statistic telling the story- 40 procent pvt, Toss palyerbase is 28 procent in gm, 23 procent in masters and 21 procent in diamand world wide- all these statistics is ignored- all feedback is ignored- all tournement results is ignored- now i ignore sc2- sad sad days for a Protoss player in 2017 - just wait and wait instead of fixing the pvt problems instant- im done with these incompetent !@#$
Hey I just wanted to make a small non-balance suggestion.

Make it so casting Shade keeps Adepts from cancelling their movement

This just increases usability. Right now, as you cast Psionic Transfer the Adept stops moving, forcing you to reissue the command if you wanted it to scout, flee or do something before the transfer happened.

I have done this in the Editor and it works.

Its as easy as setting these values for Psionic Transfer:
(Basic) Stats: Flags Add Transient
(Basic) Ability: Arc Set to 360

Casting animation might have to be removed, so it doesn't slide as it casts (looks like when you shift queue the shade and the movement after it, instead of when you cancel it after casting).

This makes the Adept significantly easy to use at lower levels without affecting balance at higher levels (negligible compared to the vision nerf)

Pls Blizz
40% and you guys want to wait...
For the Hydralisk health buff, I would recommend putting it as an upgrade initially (presumably named Ancillary Carapace as with Kerrigan's Hydralisks in Co-op), since a 10HP health buff is quite major even in the mid-game. Granted, I'm one who prefers to take caution when it comes to buffs.
As of right now there are a few major concerns, none of which you really mentioned other than writing about TvP a little bit.

Some of the map choices can only be explained by sticking to the rule that must be upheld of keeping some of your maps even they aren't the oldest even if they have proven to be really bad. Apotheosis and Gettysburg were not fun to play for most people, and didnt make for epic games. They're turtly maps that should have been removed based on that merit, not some arbitrary age rule.

TvP has been really terran favored, which might have had a lot to do with using the old map-pool. That map pool is awesome by the way, just that liberators are insanely strong on them generally.

When will you ever adress the lack of zerg anti-air at T3? You introduced parasitic bomb with Lotv, which was an ability that at launch, destroyed terran mech but protoss air remained largely untouchable because of the huge ammounts of shields of flagship air units such as carriers and tempest both. Nothing about the dynamic between Zerg and Protoss has improved, especially now that Carriers are the supply for supply best units in the game when massed above 8+. :)

Your game was actually more dynamic and better before the patch. Carriers made a lot of PvZ games just be about 'can protoss survive and get these units'. Yes = win. No = lose. It's not fun to have that kinda thing in the game. It'd be really good if zerg vs protoss late game sky army could be adressed. The ultimate zerg army consists of mass corrupters, feedback owns any energy based unit. It's been the case for years that zerg cant touch skytoss, and im getting really tired of it. Yet it's never ever even acknowledges that this is a situation that is happening.

Really wish Blizzard would hire some cheap people who are actually good at the game and play it loads. Put a few of those people on payroll and bring a starcraft culture into your offices. It's been obvious for years that while you guys may have a lot of passion about the esports side of things, the actual game design and game technical decisions are made by people who simply cannot know what to do, because they don't play the game at any high level whatsoever. It's very difficult to understand subtles and complexities of a game such as Starcraft 2 without knowing too much about the game.

I know that what I'm saying will never happen, and it should have happend during the design phase of the game. I hope for the next really complicated RTS game you guys will publish, you will bring on a group of people whos job is to be really good at the game, and have as much fun as possible playing it and help you guys ( the pro game designers ) make this is a reality. Starcraft 2 could have continued to be as glorious and awesome as it was the first 2 years, before people started seeing all these things for what they really were. A great game with too much frustating gameplay at times.

Thanks for the update.
Just gonna point out that with 10 extra HP on the Hydra, it will take +2 for Tanks so 2shot them.

Not sure if it's a big deal or not, just pointing out.

Also, nothing on the swarm host and raven cancers.
I don't believe a direct Hydra buff is warranted. How about muscular augments gives the speed and the hp (what ever the number may be) but remove the +1 range part; then add grooved spines again but only with +1 range? Of course the costs and research time can be tweaked as necessary. Otherwise, muscular augments could just give the speed and a new upgrade could give the hp and +1 range (again, cost/timings can be adjusted as needed).

My reasoning is that this would give zerg players an interesting choice to make (just like vulture speed vs mines in brood war) and lead to interesting new timings that players can mess around with and take advantage of (from both sides). Overall this would then be a hydra buff but it would be a strategic investment a zerg player would have to make rather than just a straight up buff to a unit with extreme dps (and which was intended to be a glass cannon to begin with). These are all just mere suggestions of course.

Lastly, +10hp might be a bit much and a smaller number might be worth considering. It is worth pointing out that +10hp would make it so that it requires one more hit from an adept (unless the Protoss player is 1 ground weapon upgrade ahead of carapace) to kill a hydra so this would be a pretty decent buff to hydra based builds. Pro players have been recently seen to go for a Carrier + Adept composition in the later stages of the game, thus highlighting the huge impact of such a change and how negatively it might affect PvZ.
+10 HP buff on hydra looks like a nice idea to make them stronger without breaking anything. Now that tanks deal 40 damage they are 2-shotting hydra and +10hp would revert to 3-shots as before. The big change would be the psistorm, but i think that with the adepts won't be so bad. I would make it as a base increase instead of an upgrade.

For early TvP i think that the protoss transition to colossus or templar or disruptor is too slow. On my opinion the best option is reduce the costruction time of Robotics Bay and Templar Archive to reduce the vulnerabily of the protoss due to steampack + libs push.

Quite of topic i was wondering if it would be bad change the protoss upgrades to make more similar to terrans. I mean:
Forge: Attack on Gate / Armor on Gate / Shield on All
Cybernetics core: Attack on Robo / Attack on Stargate / Armor on Robo+Stargate.
In my opinion would be awsome to let the protoss to choose a Gate+Robo or a Gate+Stargate style and splitting the attack upgrade would make the robo tech less bound to the gate tech. Ofc on this case you would have to adjust the cost and the research time of the upgrades but maybe is the road to amplify the diversity of protoss strategies.

By a random race player from Italy ^_^
10hp? What on earth is that gonna do, 2 more marine shots with stim = 0.2 seconds? No...useless. Oracles will still blot out the sun and beat Hydras better than cost.
This is even more insulting than I imagined. There isn't a single pro Toss that believes Terran isn't too strong. And, unlike this anonymous source business... I asked Leenock... and he said every Korean thinks Terran is too strong.

If you're a random player and play at a high level... you either have to be doing well versus Terran... and you should elaborate on it... or you're simply stalling because you have no idea what to change. You just know there is imbalance, but -- since you don't have any answers -- you want to pretend that maybe there is a chance nothing needs to be changed. Or you simply don't want to buff the race.

If 40% is a wait and see... what's going on with hydras? Has Zerg never won a game where they made hydras? They don't seem weak vs me... Let me guess... Terran annihilates them, too.

For those who are trying to take adv of zero progress in balance via sports betting. 21 periods in a row of Terran leading, while Toss has yet to lead even a single period in LotV. Honest effort is all. This is the most damaging community feedback I've seen. Not only was nothing said... but it was delayed? Doesn't bode well.
Love the Hydra change. Can you consider a widow mine nerf and my weekly reminder FIX THE REAPER. Anyway keep up the good work, all these changes keep the game fresh
Nice, another random zerg buff

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