Community Feedback Update - January 19

General Discussion
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I still waiting that something happens here. I read all "feedbacks" since a start of LOTV and still waiting that game will be better for me. But now I see its a waste of time. Nothing important will change anyway. We only get some unimportant number change.

May be its time to stop waiting and simply leave like many already did.
01/19/2017 11:22 AMPosted by Larez
How about adressing mech viability ? i thought this was the main focus of the new patch.

1. Change swarmhosts

2. Remove liberator range upgrade

3. Remove parasitic bombs

4. Remove raven seeker missile upgrade

Et Voila !

You have mech that's much more viable now, PvT Liberator issue fixed.


WTF man people here is trying to fix the game not see their race ruin the game .... focus now is fix P V T who cares about mech at this point when all toss die to all the stupid terran units
01/19/2017 10:01 AMPosted by Nathanias
Hey thanks for the post :)

I think the biggest issue Protoss seems to have is engaging lib/tank based armies atm. This issue is grossly compounded by the addition of the liberator range upgrade, which can be acquired very early and allows liberator-tank to kill any attempt to break a Terran position from 13 range (tanks) and 18 range(liberator max range).

I think personally with the advent of more air fights the best way to play with this would be one of a few things:

1. Reduce or remove advanced ballistics range upgrade. This upgrade not only creates part of the issue with TvP but also can be abused super early vs Zergs and completely shuts down any mech play in TvT.

2. Reduce Liberator damage to 75 or 80. This way a +0 lib takes 3 shots to kill a stalker, making engagements easier. This would allow a Terran who is ahead on upgrades to still 2-shot them.

3. Move the liberator to 160 health and the viking to 145 to balance out Terran air . The viking is listed as a "durable anti-air" fighter and the only air unit with less HP is the muta (which has more effective HP due to regen).

I think any of these 3 changes would have a nice impact, the viking bit is simply because it is the paper airplane of StarCraft II atm and cannot outrun anything that chooses to fight it (leash range of voids/carriers, corrupter speed, muta/hydra/stalker/phoenix speed).

The siege tank is finally getting some use and has a nice utility shaking up the matchup we haven't had in years. I would also consider moving the adept shade vision back to 3 or 4 instead of just 2 so that it's not COMPLETELY useless for scouting.

Thanks!


I know this is directed at TvP specifically, but considering the state of mech and the other match ups.

I would add to the above suggestions that libs should get their plus light back since mutas now run rampant, and the lib is getting 2 nerfs. And those 2 nerfs heavily weaken them in the TvZ match up.

Also the old cyclone would mesh better with the current state of the game aand mech's AA problem.
You can nerf the liberators, mines, medivacs, mauraders, marines whatever you want. Hell, I wouldn't care much if you removed the first four altogether.

I'm begging you, just don't take my siege tanks.
I completely agree with the pros about the + shield damage the widow mine does. When it comes to just a plain old damage nerf for the siege tank though I'd disagree. Reason for this is that the unit itself is very interesting and can lead to very suspenful and tactically advanced games. There is a 'problem' but I think I might have an interesting solution in that case. My suggestion would be, per unit, as follows:
  • Widow Mine: as mentioned, reduced +shield damage
  • Liberator: definitely reduced speed and acceleration and perhaps reduce range by 1 and increase advanced ballistic range gained from 4 to 5
  • Siege Tank: damage in tank mode slightly increased, damage in siege mode remains as is but siege mode must now be researched from a tech lab (like in BW)

I believe these changes would be interesting and could lead to some cool new timings as well. Feel free to disagree of course as this is merely my opinion.
Don't nerf siege tanks lol....

WM and Liberators are the problem.
01/20/2017 04:55 PMPosted by Dreadlord
01/19/2017 10:01 AMPosted by Nathanias
Hey thanks for the post :)

I think the biggest issue Protoss seems to have is engaging lib/tank based armies atm. This issue is grossly compounded by the addition of the liberator range upgrade, which can be acquired very early and allows liberator-tank to kill any attempt to break a Terran position from 13 range (tanks) and 18 range(liberator max range).

I think personally with the advent of more air fights the best way to play with this would be one of a few things:

1. Reduce or remove advanced ballistics range upgrade. This upgrade not only creates part of the issue with TvP but also can be abused super early vs Zergs and completely shuts down any mech play in TvT.

2. Reduce Liberator damage to 75 or 80. This way a +0 lib takes 3 shots to kill a stalker, making engagements easier. This would allow a Terran who is ahead on upgrades to still 2-shot them.

3. Move the liberator to 160 health and the viking to 145 to balance out Terran air . The viking is listed as a "durable anti-air" fighter and the only air unit with less HP is the muta (which has more effective HP due to regen).

I think any of these 3 changes would have a nice impact, the viking bit is simply because it is the paper airplane of StarCraft II atm and cannot outrun anything that chooses to fight it (leash range of voids/carriers, corrupter speed, muta/hydra/stalker/phoenix speed).

The siege tank is finally getting some use and has a nice utility shaking up the matchup we haven't had in years. I would also consider moving the adept shade vision back to 3 or 4 instead of just 2 so that it's not COMPLETELY useless for scouting.

Thanks!


I know this is directed at TvP specifically, but considering the state of mech and the other match ups.

I would add to the above suggestions that libs should get their plus light back since mutas now run rampant, and the lib is getting 2 nerfs. And those 2 nerfs heavily weaken them in the TvZ match up.

Also the old cyclone would mesh better with the current state of the game aand mech's AA problem.


Actually, the point of the changes is to make Terran weaker... I don't know if you got that part or it's too hard for you Terrans to understand that... Is Terran doing badly against Zerg right now ? Not at all.
01/20/2017 08:26 PMPosted by Velitey
01/20/2017 04:55 PMPosted by Dreadlord
...

I know this is directed at TvP specifically, but considering the state of mech and the other match ups.

I would add to the above suggestions that libs should get their plus light back since mutas now run rampant, and the lib is getting 2 nerfs. And those 2 nerfs heavily weaken them in the TvZ match up.

Also the old cyclone would mesh better with the current state of the game aand mech's AA problem.


Actually, the point of the changes is to make Terran weaker... I don't know if you got that part or it's too hard for you Terrans to understand that... Is Terran doing badly against Zerg right now ? Not at all.


Which is why it's important to nerf things with the least impact on TvT and TvZ.

Widow Mine shield damage is just a no brainer there.
Liberators Have several ways to fix them ranging from reduced attack with the difference behind a +massive bonus to requiring a tech lab with reworked anti air attack to the removal of Advanced Ballistics.

Advanced Ballistics is also starting to mess things up in TvT so I think we'll likely see Advanced Ballistics nerfed, changed or removed. We could also see a tech lab requirement to limit the amount that can be massed and rebuilt without seriously dedicated infrastructure. Both would achieve the end result of a more manageable Liberator without really changing it's attack or cost.
01/19/2017 10:46 AMPosted by Edowyth
Please make a change to Protoss instead of Terran.

That said, if it's not in the cards, the nerf to Terran I'd like the most would be removing the +shield damage from WMs so that Zealots become relevant again.


+1

Protoss struggle versus terrans and versus zerg.
Changes should be done to protoss backbone, it's still the most difficult race to play (remember, less played race, less represented in higher leagues).

Again, this forum has plenty of very good suggestion on how to change protoss. Stop toyng with numbers again, do something real.

Also please note that nerfing terran will have consequences to other matchups.
While shield bonus damage of widow mines could be removed straight away because it will have impact only on protoss, other changes will affect tvz and tvt too.

It's protoss race that should be "buffed" or at least changed in some way
Ive been playing this game since 2days after realease of WoL. Imo this game has lost the potential to end at any point of time, like any 1 base pushes rarely can end the game and even 2 base timings are weakened in compasion to the older days i dont like how this game shifted to focus on long term macro and losing the potential "excitment" of the real potential to end at ANY point of time due to scouting/build order/luck factor/greediness, back in the day this was not a problem like with 4 gate builds and no mothership but that is like a extreme example of what im talking about

1. bring back old pylon warp in (this was no a problem in wol and hots, whats the reasoning in lotv?)
2. bring back start worker count to 6
3. I feel the mothership core with its pylon overcharge (4x at full energy) created like a little too much of a defenders advantage

If you would adreess at least 1 of these changes the game would be much, much better
Time to act, Blizzard. Show us you are not out of touch with the community and that you actually care for the starcraft community.
Time to buff Protoss and nerf liberators and mines. Big time.

We want to be included again and not treated with the outrageous double standard (Protoss has problems "let us wait and see if they adapt", protoss is strong "let us nerf the hell out of them").

It has reached the point where it has started to feel like open discrimination as a protoss player. Every community feedback we were thinking "yes, this time... this is it, this time they are going to come to their senses" but no. Instead we got punched a little more, every single patch since lotv came out.) Again -

TIME TO MAKE PROTOSS VIABLE AND FUN AGAIN
pvt is broken.
I think rather than being completely out of touch, they are unsure how to proceed, because the issue with PvT is more of the synergy of the Terran units rather than an individual one. And they did choose to shelve the proposed Hydralisk HP buff because of general disapproval... if they proceeded with it, then that would show disconnect with the community for sure.
Don't touch the Tank please!
I have an idea... after we had some Hydra OP time, now some months of Terran OP time... how about we give Stalker 25 flat damage and +3 range when they get blink? Wouldn't be that much different of hydras and new Tanks...
is now juan 21st !!!! i read and quote "we should start doing so right away" .... if this is right away for blizz and its development team then it is clear why this game was the biggest one and now is almost dead.
I never post anything but after 5 years playing the game and looking at the state it is i really think that it important at least to try. Blizz already has the money for all the copies of the game .. clients did their job and paid now Blizz do your job and provide the support to your clients and fix the product that we already paid for and that you with your !@#$ ideas and changes is in the worst state it has ever been ... this is not a Mather if the game is balance or not and more about appreciation from both parts and it is clear that Blizz give a !@#$ now that their have their money
01/19/2017 10:01 AMPosted by Nathanias
Hey thanks for the post :)

I think the biggest issue Protoss seems to have is engaging lib/tank based armies atm. This issue is grossly compounded by the addition of the liberator range upgrade, which can be acquired very early and allows liberator-tank to kill any attempt to break a Terran position from 13 range (tanks) and 18 range(liberator max range).

I think personally with the advent of more air fights the best way to play with this would be one of a few things:

1. Reduce or remove advanced ballistics range upgrade. This upgrade not only creates part of the issue with TvP but also can be abused super early vs Zergs and completely shuts down any mech play in TvT.

2. Reduce Liberator damage to 75 or 80. This way a +0 lib takes 3 shots to kill a stalker, making engagements easier. This would allow a Terran who is ahead on upgrades to still 2-shot them.

3. Move the liberator to 160 health and the viking to 145 to balance out Terran air . The viking is listed as a "durable anti-air" fighter and the only air unit with less HP is the muta (which has more effective HP due to regen).

I think any of these 3 changes would have a nice impact, the viking bit is simply because it is the paper airplane of StarCraft II atm and cannot outrun anything that chooses to fight it (leash range of voids/carriers, corrupter speed, muta/hydra/stalker/phoenix speed).

The siege tank is finally getting some use and has a nice utility shaking up the matchup we haven't had in years. I would also consider moving the adept shade vision back to 3 or 4 instead of just 2 so that it's not COMPLETELY useless for scouting.

Thanks!


I'm sorry but this is not going to do the trick. It helps you with your special style but won't help Protoss. Also it weakens the ONLY last protoss reliable help vs Terran : Collosi
Here is my analysis of the Protoss Problems.
1.) When Terran moves out the Toss army is most times too weak to fight straight ahead so best you could do is slow down a bit.
2.) Harassment of Terran is to deadly and to multifunctional. Toss can harass with Oracle (and a bit with adept or in special cases Disrupter). Terran can drop Marine / Maroder, drop Widow Mines or use Liberator. All of them can decide a game VERY quickly. The diference from toss and terran harassment tools MMM is your main army and WM and Liberator are good as part of the main army too. Because both also are good in killing protoss main army units (or outrange them)
3. Too much power in terran units. Liberator 1-2 shoots most toss units as you mention beside this we got Widow Mines and Tanks.

So Terran army are faster, most times equal in strength and have more useability.
1.)So I would recommend to have a Tech-lab rquirement for liberator to make them more of a commitment to build (you could build 2 Medivecs or VIkings in the same time)
2.) Take away Shield damage of Widow Mine. If Oracle is the problem, give a buff to turrets. This would allow Zealot + HT armies to come back.
3.) Nerf Liberator damage as your suggested
01/20/2017 08:00 AMPosted by Avahi
Reducing the hydralisk to 1 supply would not break anything.

Why?

--> Because its a glass cannon and has good counters. If you massed hydras for example in a area and attacked you could easily lose but bringing them down to 1 supply would very well allow zerg some drop defense and some map presence in more than 1 location with a roach/hydra army. Right now the supply is all taken up by roaches2/hydras2 splitting them up would be to small a number of units to get anything done.

But let me finish with this as well. Sure go ahead and nerf them a little it would still be worth it as long as the nerf wasn't a hard nerf since roach/hydra is already underpowered in both zvp and zvt. (mass marines alone can take on the roach/hydra composition)
So I think a proper buff to the hydra would be a very simple one. Reduce the supply to 1.


IF you do it you must nerf the hydra in dmg or hp you know this right?
No you don't supply. You are just assuming that because this is cutting the supply in half. Honestly I think it would be fine the way it is just reduced to 1 supply. Hydras have never been OP in the way they are. If supply was the only thing stopping them from being OP then zerg players would get around it by doing a good timing and sacrificing economy or even the old drone/spine/cancel trick to go over the max supply.

But no this isn't done because hydras can never be OP for the simple fact they have good counters and they are glass cannons.
01/20/2017 03:29 AMPosted by ihateSCII
01/20/2017 03:08 AMPosted by Learning
REMOVE THE LIBERATOR FOR !@#$S SAKE!

DONT you dare to touch the Siegetank!

It is finaly useful and you want to nerf it to justify your %^-*ty liberator?

remove this crap!


This.

Remove Liberator, remove MSC, remove Swarm Host and see how infinitely better the game will become.
wtf is wrong with you idiots and thinking they will ever remove the MSC? like LOL they won't ever remove it because any type of 1 base by any race kills protoss then, zerg gets queens with early pool and can spine crawler without delaying tech since they get a spawning pool, terran can make a wall AND REPAIR BUNKERS without delaying tech. protoss has to make a forge and cannons and pylons and that severely delays all tech for toss, so quit crying about the MSC
01/19/2017 10:01 AMPosted by Nathanias
Hey thanks for the post :)

I think the biggest issue Protoss seems to have is engaging lib/tank based armies atm. This issue is grossly compounded by the addition of the liberator range upgrade, which can be acquired very early and allows liberator-tank to kill any attempt to break a Terran position from 13 range (tanks) and 18 range(liberator max range).

I think personally with the advent of more air fights the best way to play with this would be one of a few things:

1. Reduce or remove advanced ballistics range upgrade. This upgrade not only creates part of the issue with TvP but also can be abused super early vs Zergs and completely shuts down any mech play in TvT.

2. Reduce Liberator damage to 75 or 80. This way a +0 lib takes 3 shots to kill a stalker, making engagements easier. This would allow a Terran who is ahead on upgrades to still 2-shot them.

3. Move the liberator to 160 health and the viking to 145 to balance out Terran air . The viking is listed as a "durable anti-air" fighter and the only air unit with less HP is the muta (which has more effective HP due to regen).

I think any of these 3 changes would have a nice impact, the viking bit is simply because it is the paper airplane of StarCraft II atm and cannot outrun anything that chooses to fight it (leash range of voids/carriers, corrupter speed, muta/hydra/stalker/phoenix speed).

The siege tank is finally getting some use and has a nice utility shaking up the matchup we haven't had in years. I would also consider moving the adept shade vision back to 3 or 4 instead of just 2 so that it's not COMPLETELY useless for scouting.

Thanks!

the liberator already does 80dmg per second, nerfing it to 75 would be better but that still does a crap ton of dmg PER SECOND... and also if they got an upgrade of +1 to still 2 shot a stalker i mean, thats just as bad, because getting 1 armour for stalkers wouldnt cancel out +1 for liberators. and +1 isn't hard to get its only 100/100 so i don't think that even 75 would be viable i think itd be more like 70. or if they reduce the dmg to 75 then lower the attack speed just a little, because the range and dmg output is SUPER STRONG

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