Community Update - February 10

General Discussion
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Hello everyone!

We have a few balance topics to discuss today.

Widow Mine
While much of the feedback regarding the Widow Mine splash damage reduction has been positive, we also received feedback that pushing that change to live so quickly after making changes to the Liberator might swing the matchup too far in one direction. We will keep an eye on this matchup in the coming weeks to determine if this change should still be implemented.

Carrier
We heard your feedback that adjustments to the Carrier’s Interceptor costs might not help Zerg enough in this matchup. Rather than trying to change the Carrier, we are thinking that improvements to the Corruptor might be a better solution. Our current thinking is to improve both the speed and the responsiveness (damage point + acceleration) of the Corruptor. This would give the unit greater flexibility during engagements, and occasionally even catch parts of the Protoss army before engaging it. We would like to hear your ideas here as well.

Hydralisk
This will remain on the Balance Testing Matchmaking for now. Interestingly, we have not seen as much feedback about the Hydralisk health buff as we had expected.

Let's get some discussions going on these topics and thank you for the feedback!
Looks good. Still don't see why you are attempting to buff zerg while protoss seems weak.
Buffing the corruptor, when mech is already barely viable in TvZ? This may spell the end of it.

On the offhand, I believe a stalker blink cooldown buff would be more beneficial for TvP than a mine nerf. The issue protoss has is with powerful contains, and mass drop. The widowmine isn't a core unit in those aspects, but a stronger stalker definitely will be.
02/10/2017 10:08 AMPosted by Balance Team
we also received feedback that pushing that change to live so quickly after making changes to the Liberator might swing the matchup too far in one direction.
Good, that's the point of nerfing the mine. Current Aligulac PvT winrate is 42% and the matchup isn't enjoyable.

edit: If you don't nerf T, at least buff P.
Looks good. Still don't see why you are attempting to buff zerg while protoss seems weak.

02/10/2017 10:08 AMPosted by Balance Team
Carrier
We heard your feedback that adjustments to the Carrier’s Interceptor costs might not help Zerg enough in this matchup. Rather than trying to change the Carrier, we are thinking that improvements to the Corruptor might be a better solution. Our current thinking is to improve both the speed and the responsiveness (damage point + acceleration) of the Corruptor. This would give the unit greater flexibility during engagements, and occasionally even catch parts of the Protoss army before engaging it. We would like to hear your ideas here as well.


lol wait another zerg buff !?!? Wth? Terran struggle vs carrier as well especially mech ..... This is seriously ridiculous. Nerf carrier and give protoss a midgame buff. Every week you are talking about buffing zerg .... why?
Another unit get fast buff. Really ? :-D

But on the other hand we finally get to beta testing of LOTV .-D
Due to the little of use abilities like caustic spray, Blizzard is treading dangerous water with buffing the corrupter like this. This will not fix the part where they melt vs voidrays mixed in or stop 10 carriers from obliterating anything and everything, BUT this can make them more viable for early openings AA and in THAT regard a new nightmare in ZvT/ZvP since they will be able to stop early attacks and be fast enough to make use of caustic spray vs normal (read, NON-air heavy) openings that are standard in the meta.

I don't think this will hurt TvZ that much so I will say to test it but I can see this getting out of hand very fast.
02/10/2017 10:22 AMPosted by Damenx
ol wait another zerg buff !?!? Wth? Terran struggle vs carrier as well especially mech ..... This is seriously ridiculous. Nerf carrier and give protoss a midgame buff. Every week you are talking about buffing zerg .... why?

give me a pro game where carriers were a balance issue in PvT in recent times
hey blizzard :D ty for the feedback.

What if you guys change the Carrier dps to: 8 dmg and 1 hit instead of 5 dmg and 2 hits, that ins't just 2 dmg nerf, but a considerable reduction in the effect of the upgrades: instead of +16 per upgrades it would be +8.

That way the Carrier will not have massive dps in the late game and the critical mass to "A-move to win" would be a lot higher.
02/10/2017 10:25 AMPosted by Nightmare
02/10/2017 10:22 AMPosted by Damenx
ol wait another zerg buff !?!? Wth? Terran struggle vs carrier as well especially mech ..... This is seriously ridiculous. Nerf carrier and give protoss a midgame buff. Every week you are talking about buffing zerg .... why?

give me a pro game where carriers were a balance issue in PvT in recent times


Pro's are smart enough not to mech in TvP because of them. Also there hasn't been many pro games where protoss win vs Z without carriers.
02/10/2017 10:19 AMPosted by BossTerraN
Buffing the corruptor, when mech is already barely viable in TvZ? This may spell the end of it.


I know right ? Buffing a unit that can't attack ground unit will surely help against a composition of Factory units...
02/10/2017 10:25 AMPosted by Damenx
02/10/2017 10:25 AMPosted by Nightmare
...
give me a pro game where carriers were a balance issue in PvT in recent times


Pro's are smart enough not to mech in TvP because of them. Also there hasn't been many pro games where protoss win vs Z without carriers.

oh, so now you get to whine about something that never happens in pro games? Terrans pls

and of course there were, players like Showtime and DnS barely lose against Zerg anymore, and they rarely go carrier
02/10/2017 10:28 AMPosted by Velitey
I know right ? Buffing a unit that can't attack ground unit will surely help against a composition of Factory units...
It attacks ground it has that caustic spray ability. And you can morph it into a unit that attacks ground units.
Underwhelming community update at best. Still no talk about the SH, intentions to speed up a unit AGAIN.

So it took you two weeks to come up with this horrible piece of PR ?
After the liberator nerf, I think PvT win rate should improve, but we may need more time to see how much it improve. If it is still imbalanced, then a widow mine splash nerf may be needed, but I wonder whether buff Protoss may be worth to test, because buff Hydra will affect PvZ as well.
About carrier, I remember it was rarely used before the cost reduction of interceptors. If you nerf it back, the carrier will become useless again. Buff corruptor may be a good idea, but the problem is that it is only good against carrier (they win against phoenix, but cannot pursuit them). When a Protoss decide to build carrier, he usually has some adept to defend base and a fleet of phoenix for harassment. Hydra den and hydra are much cheaper and faster to build than spire and corruptor, and hydra has much higher dps and can attack ground, that's why corruptor is not preferred.
Dayvie I don't think the corruptor needs a damage buff. I think you should change the way some units interact with the carrier. For instance units like corruptors and even tempest prioritise interceptors over carriers. I think these units along with thors with HIP cannon should prioritize the carriers over the interceptors. Units that can quickly shred interceptors like marines and hydralisks should keep the priority on interceptors.
I think you should go ahead with the Widow Mine splash damage nerf.

While the liberator nerf is certainly significant in some scenarios such as Liberator harass, that's not where Protoss historically have problems vs Liberators, Protoss historically have problems vs Liberators when accompanied by bio.

The -10 damage is filled in by the stim bio in these situations.

There's many ways to fix the issue, luckily.

You can tone down the Liberator targeting AI so micro is needed for them to perform exceptionally well.
You can reduce the Liberator count by requiring a tech lab.

Just to name 2 examples. Personally, I'd like to see The former tested (dumbing down the liberator targeting AI while in Defender Mode), the -10 damage nerf reverted and Widow Mines have no +shield splash damage but retain it for the primary target.

This way Terran still have their toys but will need to micro them, lest the liberators derp out and start shooting Zealots/Adepts rather than Stalkers.

Widow Mines invalidate unit compositions in PvT which is a indicator that it's doing too much considering that it can be mass produced early and is fairly cheap. With the primary target damage being unchanged it can still 1 shot Oracles.

If the result somehow ends up being Chargelot Archon is too difficult to hold in the test map and you're seeing statistics on things like scouting followed by Conc. Shell Marauders+Blue Flame Hellbats (with Ghosts and Medivacs as needed) as a response then look at perhaps giving +shield damage to the Widow Mine through an upgrade that lines up with the problematic Chargelot Archon timing.
This is just awful. Fast corruptors, fast voidrays, meanwhile, vikings can't kite and everything on the ground gets melted.

In terms of design, lotv is just a nightmare. There's no such thing as counters; every strategy is 'don't let them get there'.
nvm, now when i give it a second thought, it was a bad idea...
Hydra and Corruptor
I DEFINITELY do not agree with buffing the Hydras and Corruptor. The issue is on CARRIERS, Blizzard, CARRIERS. Let me say again: CARRIERS. If you buff Corruptor and Hydra, this will likely mess ZvT, which is the best and most diverse matchup at the moment. All mech ground and air units will be screwed. Don't do it.

Widow Mine
I think the nerf on WM splash is not a thing that will make Terran unplayable against Protoss. Gateway play is suffering too much still. Blizzard should still nerf the Widow Mine and watch closely how the match up goes.

Carrier
The problem of Carrier is that Protoss Gateway play is so weak at the moment that Protoss relies on their only overpowered unit which is the Carrier. I think a reduction in Carrier range while kiting would be way better than Interceptor cost increase. With kiting, Carrier AtG range is too big for it's damage output and the range is the same as the Tempest which is a Siege unit.

Also, Raven and Swarm Hosts are too strong, please address them.

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