Community Update - June 21

General Discussion
Hey everyone,

Congrats to Neeb, Serral, and all the players at WCS Jönköping for their amazing performances! It was great to watch some incredible matches and some amazingly skilled players in action.

Recently, we received feedback regarding this season’s map pool. Some players felt that some maps could be favored more for certain races in certain matchups. Our goal with this season’s map pool was to try and bring in maps that could be new and interesting for gameplay, but still maintain a good balance for all races. We feel the current season’s map pool did a good job in creating new and interesting gameplay or matchups. However, we do feel that certain changes could be made to help improve matches on certain maps. Instead of completely rotating out maps that have received concerns, we feel that making small improvements could be enough to bring the maps into a more balanced state.

To start, we do hear concerns that matchups on Blood Boil could be more favorable towards Zerg due to the gold minerals in the middle of the map. Our plan is to change the gold mineral base to a regular blue mineral base. We think this change should help balance the map for ZvP and ZvT matchups. We’d like to implement this soon so that players have time to prepare and adjust before DreamHack Valencia. Additional possible changes include adding a second gas geyser and reducing the mineral count of the natural expansion on Blood Boil or adding a second gas geyser on the third expansion on Sequencer. As for the rest of the map pool, we will be monitoring their performance in case we feel other changes are necessary.

As always, we welcome your thoughts and feedback!
20 mins without a comment on a balance update :/ rough times.

Also, still can't play without crashing.
06/21/2017 05:23 PMPosted by Corsair
20 mins without a comment on a balance update :/ rough times.

Also, still can't play without crashing.


What balance update ? Where ?
It's there ay place where I can dowload/watch Neeb wcs matchs?
I am looking forward to trying Blood Boil again. I like Sequencer how it is right now but I like the idea of extra gas, too. This would change the tradeoff between choosing the second expansion but I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

06/21/2017 05:51 PMPosted by Fakus
It's there ay place where I can dowload/watch Neeb wcs matchs?


Some of them are here:

https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/tournament/3590/
HALLELUJAH
The proposed map changes are solid. Also, I'd like to commend the team for actually experimenting with new ideas in the map pool (though, in this case, quicker revisions would have been nice).

Regarding balance/design itself, though, I must say that I'm mystified as to how burrowed Fungal is still in this game.
Blizzard, here's what you need to put StarCraft II in a near perfect spot regarding balance while also making the vast majority of your players happy with a healthy gameplay. I've truly tried to be as fair as possible to all 3 races in this list for the sake of balance, diversity and fun. I hope someone gives credit to this list as I did a hard work looking for all specific points in which the vast majority of the community agrees.

- Redesign Raven into a support unit or nerf his huge offensive power when massed;
- Redesign or nerf Swarm Hosts;
- Redesign Reaper to be a viable unit throughout all game duration instead of early game scout and cheese only;
- Make Nydus Worm behave like a burrowed unit that can be attacked with detection before unburrowing (that was a brilliant community suggestion as it makes perfect sense with Zerg burrow mechanic);
- Remove or redesign Medivac Boost upgrade and NeoSteel Frame upgrade because they are 100% useless and no one will ever use them the way they are;
- Remove Liberator range upgrade. This upgrade alone completely shuts down Factory play and promotes abusive gameplay early against Zerg and Protoss. Yet I recognize this upgrade is needed right now because of Disruptors, that's why I touch it below for a change as well;
- Reduce a bit Siege Tank +armored damage to 60 to indirectly nerf bio and lessen the oppressive ground power of mech. As a trade off, buff slightly Cyclone AA to help mech where it really needs while also giving Cyclone any utility in mid and late game, because Cyclone is just a cheesy unit now;
- Increase Interceptor cost or change target priority to Carriers instead of Interceptors (another brilliant community suggestion);
- Revert burrowed fungals (this is straight up BROKEN) and rework Infested Terrans to be stronger keeping in mind they are free units for energy. So this needs to be done carefully and right;
- Revert Adept shade vision nerf and increase the cooldown instead;
- Redesign the Disruptor into a unit that promotes diverse PvP and ground mech TvP games again. Worth noting that the Disruptor kills in one shot beefy and slow units that cannot even micro against it like Hellbats, Roaches and Ravagers. Also, I'm 100% sure it's a consensus in the community the fact no one likes to play with or against Disruptors, not even Protoss players like to rely on gamble gameplay to win with this unit. Starcraft gameplay was turned a bit into gamble/coin flip with LotV and Disruptor takes a HUGE part in that;
- Look at mech again because it is still much more weaker than Bio and completely unviable against Protoss since Wings.

This is ALL Blizzard needs to do to fix StarCraft once and for all and bring FUN and diversity for the game. That's my feedback.
Rest in pepperoni
I think the best changes for Blood Boil would be the following:

- Make the gold base blue (as posted here)
- Make all the single geysers in blood boil a rich geyser. I know, I know you guys are really really against this idea. I would love a response from the team with a more modern reason to why this is not applicable. I can understand if it's due to the lack of a unique model, but I really think this would make the map shine much better than it does.

A small but could be very useful change:

- Place some small rock doodads on the small ramp at the natural to make it much more narrow and easier to block with units (direct nerf to ling runbys, better for P and T)

I think adding a 2nd gas to the Sequencer base isn't really addressing the problem with the base. It's currently a "safe" third option but with literally half of all income, whereas the horizontal base isn't really that open or difficult to defend due to how the maps flow is structured. So, really it's not an option at all, you'll only see Terrans float their main CC there since it's a safe float for half income. Zergs and Protoss really don't look at it as a worthwhile investment.

So really the root is that the map is trying to make a decision really early in the state of the game, but is failing to really do so. The easy solution would be to copy what Blood Boil does, perhaps by making it a mineral heavy safe base (like 8/1), whereas the other third is more of a gas-heavy base (like the Odyssey 5/3 base).

It's hard to come to a conclusion without copying the other executions, would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks for this update guys.

EDIT: I made a version with these proposals, called Blood Boil (Balance Test V), avail on NA and EU. Here's the picture:

http://i.imgur.com/RMtGa9C.png
06/21/2017 05:02 PMPosted by Balance Team
To start, we do hear concerns that matchups on Blood Boil could be more favorable towards Zerg due to the gold minerals in the middle of the map. Our plan is to change the gold mineral base to a regular blue mineral base. We think this change should help balance the map for ZvP and ZvT matchups.


Although I'm not against this change per se, I just want to note the fact that this is one of the only gold bases worth lifting off to at the start as Terran because it has 8 mineral patches instead of 6. Most of my TvZs on this map have been me with CC lifted off to gold base with Zerg taking the gold base as their natural. So in my opinion this situation is odd but balanced - Zerg isn't overpowered on this map. I've literally never even have taken the 10 mineral base on this map because the gold base is so strong to take at start.

You may have heard complaints from other Terrans about T being weak vs Z on this map and I don't care, because they're not playing it correctly.

It's understandable removing the gold for PvZ though.
Glad to see this update of them acknowledging map based balance concerns.

I personally am a fan of unique bases with different mineral/gas counts but having the changes be at a natural may be a bit much (such as a missing geyser of Blood Boil which cripples toss).

Certainly don't stop exploring as maps like Odyssey are a great way to make the maps explore in a safe way by having the 3rd/4th be different.
The suggestion to normalize the resources of Blood Boil or Sequencer is a good idea. Having 3 maps with experimental resources is absurd, 1 or 2 is enough.
06/21/2017 10:36 PMPosted by Eigenscape
The suggestion to normalize the resources of Blood Boil or Sequencer is a good idea. Having 3 maps with experimental resources is absurd, 1 or 2 is enough.


^^
^^
^^
This
I also think that the problem with current map pool is that you overdid it. Forcing the player base into 3 out of 7 experimental maps is too much.
Good. Hopefully this will bring back some Protosses and Terrans. I have been playing an estimated 70% of PvZ, 20% PvT and 10% of PvP in the last days (on EU, I am saying this to already respond to the people who always go ahead and look at your account not realizing you could be someone from a region other than NA. Not saying this in a "EU is better" or any other way).

Apart from balance concerns I don't get what people are thinking "oh, zerg is really strong now, let me get in those feel-good almost default wins"? Pathetic.
I will always be a protoss no matter if they are strong or weak (the latter is the way it has been for the majority of LOTV but hey, at least we get more than enough practice of being in a dire spot and still getting in wins)
A community update with less than a page worth or responses in 8 hours, SC2 is really in bad shape. And if all the devs heard was the maps might favor some races and nothing about balance/design. Well cudos to the dev team for phoning it in and still getting paid.
Again continued blatant problems of balance that are ignored. atleast tell us your thoughts on it? But absolutely no discussion on any of the issues for so long already.
Do not purchase any skin or annoucer, then they'll start to give a !@#$ about the actual balance and unfun problems LOTV has.
06/22/2017 01:21 AMPosted by Flack
Again continued blatant problems of balance that are ignored. atleast tell us your thoughts on it? But absolutely no discussion on any of the issues for so long already.


Like what blatant problems?
06/22/2017 12:14 AMPosted by Jockel
Apart from balance concerns I don't get what people are thinking "oh, zerg is really strong now, let me get in those feel-good almost default wins"? Pathetic.
I will always be a protoss no matter if they are strong or weak (the latter is the way it has been for the majority of LOTV but hey, at least we get more than enough practice of being in a dire spot and still getting in wins)

No offense, but that basically translates as "I'm too insecure to offrace". And some advice about doing statistics on a small number sample: unless you played 50+ games "in the last days", which I doubt, those numbers mean nothing.
Regards, a Random player.

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