Community Update - Dec. Design Changes Update

General Discussion
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Thanks for the discussions regarding the proposed changes. We hear your feedback and we want to make a few adjustments to the list of changes for the next balance update occurring on the week of December 18th.

Protoss

After reviewing the recent feedback, we are reducing the number of changes for Protoss. We still think the current Chrono Boost does help Protoss players reach a unit or upgrade too quickly, so we are going to reduce the strength of Chrono Boost but increase the duration of the ability. At the same time, the Oracle’s build time will be reduced as well since the effects of Chrono Boost were reduced.

Next, the Stalker strength will remain the same for now. We’ve heard feedback that nerfing it, in addition to Chrono Boost, may be too many changes for Protoss currently. We will continue to evaluate high level games going forward. For the Disruptor we are going to keep the cooldown the same as currently, but will be introducing a delay before each Purification Nova fires. This should give players more time to try evading or counter attacking the Disruptor when fighting at close range, as the damage will not be quite so sudden.

Nexus
  • Chrono Boost strength reduced from 100% to 50% and duration per cast increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.

Oracle
  • Build time reduced from 43 to 37 seconds.

Disruptor
  • Purification Nova has a 1 second charge up time before launch.


Terran

We would still like to try increasing the Raven’s strength to make the unit more viable in matchups. Also, the Widow Mine’s build time will be reduced a bit to open up more opportunities for the unit.

Raven
  • Anti-Armor Missile lock time reduced from 2.14 to 1.43.
  • Anti-Armor Missile energy cost reduced from 125 to 100.
  • Interference Matrix range increased from 8 to 9.
  • Interference Matrix missile speed increased by 50%.

Widow Mine
  • Build time reduced from 28.6 to 21.4 seconds.


Multiplayer Maps
  • Blackpink LE – Added a jumpable platform to provide Terran players with an additional entry or exit for scouting.
  • Catalyst LE – Decals and doodads were added to help highlight the Reaper jump location near the main base.


Future Changes

The game is constantly changing as high level players develop new strategies. Some areas we are keeping in mind are Stalker/Disruptor strength vs Terran, overall effectiveness of Terran Bio, diversity of Protoss openings, Zerg overall strength, and Overlord transport strength vs Protoss.

Again, thanks to everyone for all the continued feedback and please let us know your thoughts. Lastly, since the end of the year is approaching, we want to wish everyone Happy Holidays and a wonderful New Years!
?! Only becasue some Protoss forum whiners said "not too many chnages at once" you listen? Stalkers are the biggest issue!....
I haven't had a big issue with Stalkers beyond early game with the 100% chrono, but Chrono was the issue because too many showed up to begin with and their upgrades were always ahead and less expensive.

Starting with Chrono nerf is great, the 1s charge-up time is good for Disruptor to allow counter-play. I know some people are going to be disappointed that Stalker is not being nerfed because they became great units against certain others, like BCs, but I still find myself doing well against them with Marauders.

It's probably best to start small with just Chrono and Disruptor nerfs, Stalkers can come later if they're really the issue.
12/14/2017 10:02 AMPosted by EnVyUsPolt
?! Only becasue some Protoss forum whiners said "not too many chnages at once" you listen? Stalkers are the biggest issue!....

So when terrans say its too much, it needs to be jumped on, but when protoss say its too much, were to be ignored? Yeah, that makes sense /s
Based on aligulac stat, the win rate of PvT and ZvP both are above 56% right now. Since oracle's nerf against marine and SCV, it will help fix PvT at least. It is the time to focus on ZvP now.
I just have a few questions

1 when toss go mass carriers, how can terran counter this invincible composition? every time toss go mass carrier with dt and ht, all we can do is type gg.

2 why bio is the only feasible option everytime we play tvp?can we make this combat be more diverse and more fun?
you know for some aging players who dealing with work or study everyday, don't have the energy and ability to play bio(bio sometimes is more effective, but this requires high intense training and amp) but they still love sc2 and don't want to lose.
if we give terran more opportunity to mech with protoss(just like tvt and tvz), not only the game will be more appreciation worthy but also give players more space to explore other units and strategies.

3 can we break the historical weird cycle of "tvz t favors, zvp z favors and pvt p favors" and use other ways to make the official game balance statistics be more reasonable?
12/14/2017 10:36 AMPosted by QuAsaR
I just have a few questions

1 when toss go mass carriers, how can terran counter this invincible composition? every time toss go mass carrier with dt and ht, all we can do is type gg.

2 why bio is the only feasible option everytime we play tvp?can we make this combat be more diverse and more fun?
you know for some aging players who dealing with work or study everyday, don't have the energy and ability to play bio(bio sometimes is more effective, but this requires high intense training and amp) but they still love sc2 and don't want to lose.
if we give terran more opportunity to mech with protoss(just like tvt and tvz), not only the game will be more appreciation worthy but also give players more space to explore other units and strategies.

3 can we break the historical weird cycle of "tvz t favors, zvp z favors and pvt p favors" and use other ways to make the official game balance statistics be more reasonable?
so you mean, you are korean master terran and you have problems with carriers? pls show me a replay about carriers in pvt, how he managed to survive 5-7 minute 2 base push? with 2 carriers? or he switched to them in the late game, but you still made marines against carriers and ht's?
12/12/2017 05:45 PMPosted by Balance Team
Nexus

Chrono Boost strength reduced from 100% to 50% and duration per cast increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.

Oracle

Build time reduced from 43 to 37 seconds.

Disruptor

Purification Nova has a 1 second charge up time before launch.


Good! I'm glad you're listening to the feedback. These are all good changes (though I'm hesitant on the oracle build time change)

12/12/2017 05:45 PMPosted by Balance Team
Raven

Anti-Armor Missile lock time reduced from 2.14 to 1.43.
Anti-Armor Missile energy cost reduced from 125 to 100.
Interference Matrix range increased from 8 to 9.
Interference Matrix missile speed increased by 50%.


Good changes. Makes the raven in general more useful.

12/12/2017 05:45 PMPosted by Balance Team
Widow Mine

Build time reduced from 28.6 to 21.4 seconds.


Doesn't really fix the issue with widow mines in the first place, but I suppose it makes it a little easier to defend oracle BS. Still relatively useless otherwise.

The unit no longer serves in any capacity. You aimed to make it less game ending through harassment, but ironically, the only thing you didn't manage to change was its ability to do economic damage to your opponent.

You basically removed it as a defensive unit except in once off situations (IE when the first oracle flies in and dies to the mine). It can no longer be used as a scouting unit, it cannot be used anymore for base defense against things like warp prisms, drop overlords or medivacs, it cannot be used to help defend against all-in plays either because it uncloaks after it fires. And that's not even considering it in an army composition against something like Chargelot Archon, which it's otherwise pretty weak against now.
Maybe nerfing chrono to 75% and using the actual numbers of 50 energy, 10s would be less disruptive. Now with the change of timing we have to relearn another rythm in using chrono.
Stalker stays as it is (for now).
Disruptor is turned to garbage due to the 1 sec delay. They could have increased the cooldown to 45s for what i care but never, never insert stupid delays. He is actualy slow as it is.
Yes they think that this will appease the vocal terran brigade, but really they think that the disruptor is exclusively an anti-terran device in the arsenal of protoss?
What about the impact on zerg, considering that they are the fastest race in the matchup, and it is nothing for them to move forward a cheap suicide unit to mess-up with the nova?
Last time i checked, the protoss were struggling with zergs big-time even without castrating the disruptor!

Somebody yesterday said that now the zergling will have time to rush toward the disruptor and turn back before the nova explodes!
I'm glad that changes are being made relatively quickly before the next set of qualifiers and tournaments kick off!

A few things:

If stalker overall damage is a concern, just nuke the attack speed by ~5-10%. This makes it more of that "hit and run" unit that it seemed to be going for.

Tempests should have slightly reduced range to allow for more viable TvP (15 down to 14 for the air attack).

One way to look at bio strength could be bolstering Ghosts' stats (again). Adding a small movement speed boost while cloaked is an option. Helps maintain the mobility concept for Terran bio.

The widow mine change is just weird for lack of a better word. What's the "actual" goal for it and how does it stand to be a more solid mid to end game option without an additional or changed upgrade?
To add insult to injury we have to hear:

"This should give players more time to try evading or counter attacking the Disruptor when fighting at close range, as the damage will not be quite so sudden. "
[i][/i]

For some reason they think that the disruptor is exclusively an aggresive weapon, and he never has to go in range of siege tanks of group of lurkers in front of the protoos base. So the right of terrans and zergs trying to destroy protoss are to be considered higher than protoss to survive.
That extra second under enemy fire is a death wish for this unit!
It was severely nerfed allready by halving the AOE (that now is not circle but semicircle that equal to 50% nerf), but evidently it was not enough.
12/14/2017 12:53 PMPosted by FluffyBunny

Tempests should have slightly reduced range to allow for more viable TvP (15 down to 14 for the air attack).

[/quote]

That would be OK as long as their supply was back to 4 and had a cost drop of 50/25 less mineral/gas.
I know it is not OK with you, if left to your devices you are able to create invisible siege tanks with range 18, and spead 7 with siege time of 0.01s, as well as marines that launch nukes on the other side of the map.
12/14/2017 12:42 PMPosted by Goba
Maybe nerfing chrono to 75% and using the actual numbers of 50 energy, 10s would be less disruptive. Now with the change of timing we have to relearn another rythm in using chrono.
Stalker stays as it is (for now).
Disruptor is turned to garbage due to the 1 sec delay. They could have increased the cooldown to 45s for what i care but never, never insert stupid delays. He is actualy slow as it is.
Yes they think that this will appease the vocal terran brigade, but really they think that the disruptor is exclusively an anti-terran device in the arsenal of protoss?
What about the impact on zerg, considering that they are the fastest race in the matchup, and it is nothing for them to move forward a cheap suicide unit to mess-up with the nova?
Last time i checked, the protoss were struggling with zergs big-time even without castrating the disruptor!

Somebody yesterday said that now the zergling will have time to rush toward the disruptor and turn back before the nova explodes!

I actually really like the idea of toning down Chrono to 75% for 10 seconds instead so that timings aren't affected so significantly.

I'm glad the Disruptor's cooldown will remain the same for now, but I agree that the 1sec shot delay really hurts in PvZ for reasons stated above. So I think it would be more fair to have an added cooldown than a shot delay, however, if the main issue is Warp Prism-Disruptor play, then maybe what's needed most is a shot delay that's applied when it drops?

I'm relieved Blizzard is receptive to feedback and that the Stalker isn't getting a quadruple nerf. Best to keep an eye on it and adjust it incrementally as needed.

It's nice to see those Terran buffs are still going forward as well.

Anyway good job Blizzard, thanks for listening.
12/12/2017 05:45 PMPosted by Balance Team
Thanks for the discussions regarding the proposed changes. We hear your feedback and we want to make a few adjustments to the list of changes for the next balance update occurring on the week of December 18th.

Protoss

After reviewing the recent feedback, we are reducing the number of changes for Protoss. We still think the current Chrono Boost does help Protoss players reach a unit or upgrade too quickly, so we are going to reduce the strength of Chrono Boost but increase the duration of the ability. At the same time, the Oracle’s build time will be reduced as well since the effects of Chrono Boost were reduced.

Next, the Stalker strength will remain the same for now. We’ve heard feedback that nerfing it, in addition to Chrono Boost, may be too many changes for Protoss currently. We will continue to evaluate high level games going forward. For the Disruptor we are going to keep the cooldown the same as currently, but will be introducing a delay before each Purification Nova fires. This should give players more time to try evading or counter attacking the Disruptor when fighting at close range, as the damage will not be quite so sudden.

Nexus
  • Chrono Boost strength reduced from 100% to 50% and duration per cast increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.

Oracle
  • Build time reduced from 43 to 37 seconds.

Disruptor
  • Purification Nova has a 1 second charge up time before launch.


Terran

We would still like to try increasing the Raven’s strength to make the unit more viable in matchups. Also, the Widow Mine’s build time will be reduced a bit to open up more opportunities for the unit.

Raven
  • Anti-Armor Missile lock time reduced from 2.14 to 1.43.
  • Anti-Armor Missile energy cost reduced from 125 to 100.
  • Interference Matrix range increased from 8 to 9.
  • Interference Matrix missile speed increased by 50%.

Widow Mine
  • Build time reduced from 28.6 to 21.4 seconds.


Multiplayer Maps
  • Blackpink LE – Added a jumpable platform to provide Terran players with an additional entry or exit for scouting.
  • Catalyst LE – Decals and doodads were added to help highlight the Reaper jump location near the main base.


Future Changes

The game is constantly changing as high level players develop new strategies. Some areas we are keeping in mind are Stalker/Disruptor strength vs Terran, overall effectiveness of Terran Bio, diversity of Protoss openings, Zerg overall strength, and Overlord transport strength vs Protoss.

Again, thanks to everyone for all the continued feedback and please let us know your thoughts. Lastly, since the end of the year is approaching, we want to wish everyone Happy Holidays and a wonderful New Years!


The testing ladder should really be used to test these changes in real time before the patch, it would also allow players to adjust to the future changes.

Good changes so far, also please let these changes settle before any future changes are implemented.

Really liking the response time when it comes to balance and judging feedback.

PS: I'm working on a mod that you should check out when it's out.
I'm okay with stalkers base damage not being nerfed... but i still think that +2 dmg per upgrade is too much for a T1 unit, it does change the trades the unit is supposed to do against units of superior tiers. Still, we can wait, and open with something other than marines in early game...

At the other hand, Raven's buffs are welcome, 125 energy for 30 splash clearly was too expensive. Yet an increase of shredder's missile damage to 40 or 50 (provided there is attenuation outside of splash's center) could be a good thing too, so that Starport regains a more allround splash option.
They implemented it in one iteration (prism-disruptor delay), but latter renounced the idea, now they are applying it globally.
It would be ok to apply an 0.5s delay only for drop disruptors, but they will not do it.

All those changes, (castration if you think about) were sold under the banner of having more consistent shots from this unit! The shots were there but if you are stupid enough to use chargelots, there were for them instead.

You want consistent shots?, bring back the reaver!
Blizzard, I still hope you'll reconsider the Disruptor's charge/shot delay. I know Terran players have complained about it when using bio ball, but realistically Marines are probably the best and most mobile units in the game with Stim and Medivac support. So with that in mind, these are some of the ways I see players effectively dealing with Disruptors online:
- Sacrificing a single marine into the Nova;
- Splitting and maneuvering out of the way;
- Quickly loading (hiding) up in Medivacs;
- Siege'ing the Disruptors with tanks/libs;
- Changing up their army composition.

With that in mind, I don't think Disruptors are the problem for Terran. Maybe coming out of a warp prism it could use a delay, but otherwise I think the upcoming delay will hurt PvZ matches. Armored/heavy units (like Roaches) laugh at Psi Storm, so the Disruptor has a clear role. At present, Zerglings can deal with the Nova quite well. With a shot delay though, the Disruptor won't stand a chance against Zerg.
Still no Zerg changes despite ZvP being the most imbalanced match up in favor of Zerg...
12/14/2017 01:36 PMPosted by XelKira
Blizzard, I still hope you'll reconsider the Disruptor's charge/shot delay. I know Terran players have complained about it when using bio ball, but realistically Marines are probably the best and most mobile units in the game with Stim and Medivac support. So with that in mind, these are some of the ways I see players effectively dealing with Disruptors online:
- Sacrificing a single marine into the Nova;
- Splitting and maneuvering out of the way;
- Quickly loading (hiding) up in Medivacs;
- Siege'ing the Disruptors with tanks/libs;
- Changing up their army composition.

With that in mind, I don't think Disruptors are the problem for Terran. Maybe coming out of a warp prism it could use a delay, but otherwise I think the upcoming delay will hurt PvZ matches. Armored/heavy units (like Roaches) laugh at Psi Storm, so the Disruptor has a clear role. At present, Zerglings can deal with the Nova quite well. With a shot delay though, the Disruptor won't stand a chance against Zerg.


I more than agree with your analysis. I would add that considering an unit strictly in connection with another (disruptor-->bioball) is naive for not going to other more appropriate word "stupid".

The disruptor fights everything in the ground. If changes are to be made than the trio (disruptor, tank, lurker) is to be considered and all three are to undergo changes.

This is the proper way of seeing things, all three are different and have strong and week points, and this is the beauty of SC2 races.
But for each change in one of those units, resulting changes are to be made for the other two. I know this is a lot of effort.
Than better live a unit alone instead of breaking the balance.
The tank had not changed recently but the lurker was buffed. Instead of buffing tanks and disruptors in return, we see the disruptor beeing nerfed to the ground!

Congratulations!

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