Co-op Mission Update - January 17th, 2018

Co-op Missions Discussion
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I'm not a very pro player (all 15/90 but maximum capacity 70%-90% of the 'work' on brutal, depending on map/comp, also F2-spamming scrub) but I do love theorycrafting, so I hope this helps.

Han and Horner

Strike Fighters
I want to say, I love the thematics (and CnC vibes) of the design, tactical superiority rather than brute force. But tactical superiority means you must have "utility power" far larger than others, whereas the current implementation is so awkward it's the opposite of utility. Additionally, there are too many of them and that prevents each individual one from feeling powerful. I'd like to make them more effective at their "surgical strike" role.

Simple solution
Fighters Tac Jump above their targets after a flat 2 seconds and immediately drop the bomb. They then turn around and fly back across the map, vulnerable to being shot down. Additionally, unit damage 150 > 160 to clear stalkers, tanks, cyclones etc. This will allow them to be used for quick reactionary sniping of important enemy units, as well as eliminate wait time before your army moves on a base.

Extensive solution
Maximum count 10 > 8, supply cost 4 > 5. Reduces APM drain, allows individual strikes to feel more impactful.
Provides 5 supply for itself (His and Hers Supply 16 > 14). Support for early builds without sacrificing reapers.
Damage 150 > 200 (400 > 500 structure). Hits many more breakpoints, including 2-shots and 3-shots of mega units.
Cost 100/100 > 100/25, radius 1.5 > 0.5, bomb homes in on closest target. Less of a sacrifice to get them early while taking away from fluff splash instead of sniping ability.
Napalm upgrade > Tac Jump Bomb upgrade
Fuel Air Bomb: 150/125 to upgrade the platform. Now deals 90 damage to ground and air units in an area slightly larger than current.
Bunker Buster: 100/75 to upgrade the platform. Mutually exclusive. Damage increased to 666 (1000).
Theia Raven Silent Mode becomes fully undetectable. Place your spare Ravens along attack paths for easy strikes.

The idea is to make building the platforms early less taxing, while also granting them scalability and allowing you to adapt them to your tactical needs. It won't be a build-every-game thing, but an intentional tactical choice.

Mag mines and static defense
I do like the difficulty in using them but there isn't really a point if your army has to be there, or you have to sacrifice a building + repairs.

Simple solution
Mag mines explode on contact even during the firing delay.

Extensive solution
New building: Barricade. Metallic debris with a tiny auto-turret duct-taped on top. For 100 mins, get a 800hp building with a 10 damage/2 seconds peashooter. Stops attackers long enough for mag mines and can garrison a widow mine with extended range. E-bay upgrade: Guardian Shell on a 30s cooldown and health regen.

Hellion/Hellbat builds
I'd love to have Hellions be a slower, less mayfly-ish build, but they simply lack the raw power of non-collision reapers. Hellbats show promise in coop, for once, since HnH is made for trading units. They just need to trade better. Additionally, reapers can heal while these can't, and another part of the problem is that Ravens buff reaper damage by 50% but do barely anything for Hellions/Hellbats.

Simple solution
Hellions +1 range, small damage increase, projectile speed increase
Hellbats +WoL Hardened Shields but for health
Theia Raven +1 mechanical health regen aura, stackable.

Extensive solution
Hellion death buff 25% AS > 20% AS, 20% damage reduction. Now stackable up to 4 times, increasing 10% per additional stack.
Hellbat DoT upgrade > Jump Jet upgrade.
Hellbat death explosion circular area > frontal cone, range increased to 4.
Theia Raven +1 mech regen aura, stackable.

Wraiths and Vikings
I like them, much better than cattlebruisers anyway. But they are a little underwhelming for their cost. Just some simple tune-ups are enough.

Both attacks are now lasers with no travel time and no projectile.
Wraiths +1 range.
Vikings ground mode +1 range.
Vikings missile ability splashes.

Worsethanraynors Cattlebruisers
Anything would be better as long as it buffs the abysmal effective DPS due to its slow travel, wasted projectiles and crappy stats. It's not even useful as a meatshield since reapers will be up front.

Attacks have no travel time and no projectile.
Mini Yamato > normal Yamato with small 50% splash (550/275)

Significant Others
Nothing significant (heh) but I'd like to see the bonuses switched. Thematically, Han is about damage, so she should give damage to her partner, and Horner is about resilience so his units should give health. Gameplay wise, this works better with the short-range Han units and long-range Horner units, and we get to avoid weird fluctuating health pools.
Fenix

Ramp up time
There are a lot of ways to solve this, but it's mostly been done before. Chrono Field, His and Hers, Mules, Twin drones, automated extractors, larva spawn rate, Advanced Construction... We could always copy one of them over, but why not try something new?

Simple solution
Adaptive deployment: in addition to 20% unit discount, Fenix also gets 300 starting minerals, allowing him to open into buildings immediately.
Starting supply mastery > starting mineral mastery, 20-600 extra minerals.

Extensive solution
All of the above + start with Probius champion. (Pataphysix said it first.) My version of Probius has a 90 second cooldown spell to instantly finish a building. Probius also has 100/100 shields/health and double movement speed, because why not.

Legionaries
They may be weak but it's easy to fix; as generic statballs, they simply need more stats. Or in this case, stats per price.

Price 160 (200) > 120 (150)
Collision size reduced slightly.
Charge now deals 12 damage. Khaldalis gets 18 damage.

Adepts
Adepts are holding ground Fenix back, since having a slow 5-range unit with less damage to armored as your only anti-air is unacceptable, so he has no choice but to go air in most games.

Air attack range 5 > 7
Damage 16 (22) > 20 (24)

Colossi
They don't get many chances to do their job, maybe fire once or twice and the Legionaries have moved on. This isn't necessarily a bad thing since it means you're winning, but it make them not quite worth it.

New ability: Energy discharge
Lightning bolts an enemy for 60 damage every 6 seconds. Autocast, instant projectile, fire on the move and longer range than thermal lance, so that it won't interfere with normal A-move behaviour. Targets ground and air. This enables the colossus to supplement your DPS a little even while playing catch-up and support your adepts against air without attracting target priority.

Warbringer gets this ability on a 2 second cooldown. His slowing attacks passive replaces and removes "kill that one zergling beam" as his researchable ability.

Scouts
Not bad, actually. If something were to change, they should get some damage mitigation so they can frontline and dish damage without putting so much of a strain on resources.

New ability: Emergency shields
When shields are depleted, restore 40 shields. 10 second cooldown. Mojo gets 80 shields.

Carriers
Interceptors are now summoned by spell instead of by queue, with the same cooldown as the original build time. Stores up to 4 charges. This will help to keep their poor damage output a little more consistent. No other stat changes. Why? See below.

Avenging protocol
The elephant in the room. This entire post was actually a build up to solving this one. It's simple really; I've given each unit a castable (autocast) ability that fits their role, Avenging protocol now resets it. (Adepts already had shade.)

Avenging protocol: When a unit dies, cooldowns of all units of the same type are reset. When a champion dies, cooldowns of all units of every type are reset.

Loss-minimising band-aid? Check. Useful for units that don't die often? Khaldalis will die to reset them. Not an encouragement to kill the units yourself? Check. I don't know about you guys, I like this idea very much. Note: the champion reset also applies to Conservators and Disruptors.

Conservator and conserving forces
Fenix's attrition problem should be solved by this unit, for flavor reasons if nothing else. Again, like his ramp-up problems, there are many ways to do it, but I'd like to differentiate him if we can. I do like the somewhat-expendable-empty-shells thematics, after all.

New ability: Conservation
When a nearby unit dies, return its resource cost to your bank. 40s cooldown, reset by Avenging protocol. (Thanks Khaldalis.)

This helps with attrition, of course, and fits the flavor of a robotic race that is too intricate to repair in the field. "Let's just warp it home and salvage it." It refunds one unit in each engagement; the more gas you invest in conservators the less attrition you will suffer, which is great support for gateway builds while not buffing carrier builds, which have free tanks anyway. The interaction with Avenging protocol is an extra stopgap against catastrophic losses.
Talandar (hero unit)
He's strong enough to handle early/mid waves with micro. But he does have a lack of 'ultimate' powers that can compete with calldowns, like Immobilization Wave or Roach Drop. I see everyone clamouring for calldowns, but why not just ultimates? In combination with global hero warp, it does the exact same thing.

Nova gets an ultimate ability for each stance, let's give Talandar an ultimate for each suit, with an cooldown like 6-7 minutes, because we don't want him to turn into Dehaka who has a pack leader for every wave or something.

Some ideas:
Purification Field: Grants 5 armor/shield armor and deals 100 damage per second in a large area around the Praetor Armor. Lasts for 10 seconds.
Overcharge: For 10 seconds, Solarite Dragoon abilities have 1 second cooldowns and cost no energy. (No cost fits a true ultimate, as opposed to live where it will eat 150-300 energy.) Basic attacks splash.
Dimensional Rip: Instantly kill all units trapped in stasis by the Cybros Arbiter. Refunds 80% of currently missing energy.

Karax
I like unit Karax, not very optimal though it may be. Even with the mastery cost is a bit of an issue, but the biggest peeve is not having a unit that can shoot up and having to go for weak Mirages or slow and boring Carriers. Orbital strike and Reclamation are not full substitutes for attacks.

Simple solution
(one is enough)
Immortal attacks hit air
Shadow Cannon cooldown 45 > 15
Colossus alternate anti-air weapon

Extensive solution
Anti-air spell for Mirages, doesn't particularly matter what
New unit: Instigator, multi-blink stalker variant (possible upgrade: Blink does area damage at starting and ending locations)

Bonus section
Probably not going to find a better opportunity, so I'll leave the better few of my ideas:

Swann
Swann could use a 'wrecking ball' for breaking open fortified locations, as an alternative to creeping siege tanks forward. Diamondbacks seem to fit the bill, especially if they get a short-term defensive spell to last through the first few volleys.

Also, I've heard many calls for CC-reactor, but early second CC means you are more limited by minerals (if you want an army) than construction time and double construction is far more than you can handle. I'd like to suggest revamping the gas drone mastery instead. Currently picking it is a non-decision and it leads to "when do I invest in drones" being a non-decision as well, losing depth. Why not spread its effect over more things?

I suggest -30% economy cost and build time; economy meaning CC, SCVs, gas drones and refineries. That's 900 minerals saved and faster saturation as compared to 720 previously, at the cost of a more delayed benefit and lower total gas.

To compete with this, the laser mastery should be similarly impactful, I suggest -60% attack windup/period and build cost/time. This means a 125 DPS laser, 4 minutes or more earlier, and 300/300 in savings.

Abathur
#1: if your ally is decent and aggressive, you will spend 70% of the time playing Pacman instead of Starcraft. #2: Air comps ruin toxic nest/Brutalisk defences, putting you pretty far behind, making you recall your army for every wave, and lowering your biomass income. #3: Infested maps starve him of early biomass and tax his mediocre early-game DPS.

I can't imagine how you would solve these without changing a lot of fundamental things, though. The Pacman thing is a core of his design, you'd have to give him topbars to grab and assign biomass to avoid it. Maybe just have all dropped biomass go directly to his bank without having to go pick it up, then each unit has a "eat 10 biomass" button.

For air comps, perhaps you can let toxic nests hit air units, or add a 'scourge nest' that shares the same charges and effects as toxic nests but only hits air units. Another solution that helps with both air and infested is to have Abathur start with a X-biomass blob near his hatchery. If you just want to target infested, have toxic nests drop a small base amount of biomass when they hit any enemy.

Alarak
I'm not a fan of spellcasters, so I'd like to build his cool robo units. Too bad they are really unwieldy. I realize I have suggested this a lot, but maybe up their projectile speeds and speed their attack animations. And let us use the campaign-obliterating 320 damage Vanguard.

Artanis
Massed Dragoons are bad mostly because all 30 of them will shoot at the same zergling before it dies. Therefore, laser dragoons (the instant beam kind of laser) who never waste a shot will likely be very impressive.

Nova
I suggested giving Jump Jets to Han's Hellbats, since those are expendable, so it's only fair I suggest for Nova as well. Wouldn't a simple +2 range work fine? Then they wouldn't stray too far but will still be in front.
01/17/2018 01:03 PMPosted by monk
The pick-up mechanic is not as fun as it could be.

I've never had any trouble with manually targeting them but changing them to become "hostile" units would definitely make things feel less clunky.

But if you do intend on changing this, then make sure their attack priority is low so that player units won't attack them if there are enemy units nearby. Otherwise those bigger generators could become a nuisance if players aren't paying attention in fights since unlike the smaller crates, they can't be destroyed in a single hit by most units.

01/17/2018 01:03 PMPosted by monk
The bonuses, especially the first bonus, are difficult.

The second train isn't a problem IMO, but the amount of time before the first train arrives should be definitely increased.

As it stands, it's not impossible to do even on Brutal but requires you to devote a disproportionately large amount of resources early on if you intend on completing it without the hybrid timer running out (or getting close to it).

I think a delay of 1 or max 2 minutes would be sufficient to make the objective more accessible. In this way, you'd be able to clear out the expansions first, collect enough parts to keep Davis happy while not having to rely exclusively on your calldowns to (barely) scrape your way through the enemy outposts near the train tracks.

01/17/2018 01:03 PMPosted by monk
There isn’t enough time to complete the mission.

Well this is pretty much a problem that all timed missions have, so it's unavoidable.

I think the only workaround for this without unnecessarily dragging the mission on for too long would be to halt the timer while the Balius is being activated and while you're fighting the hybrid.

In addition, increase the time delay rewarded by collecting parts to +4 or +5 seconds instead (except on Brutal which should remain at +3 just for the challenge?).

On another note, stopping time during the Balius' activation would also give players a chance to assault the train if they inadvertently collect all the parts too quickly.
The bonus would be much helped, if the timer whould get back to original.
What happened to David Sum? Does he still do coop updates too?
Hey man, congratulations! You are living the dream and yet asked the community on their thoughts, well done! I like that, but don't be afraid to go against our opinion if you want to.

H&H

01/17/2018 01:03 PMPosted by monk
Reapers seem like they’re in a good place right now. Most of the other units, on the other hand, seem weaker in comparison. The community has specifically pointed to the Battlecruiser as a problem unit, citing his Mini Yamato upgrade is more of a downgrade.


Widow Mines: going full Widow mine is so FUN, haha! I would have a look at their on death effect though, spreading 5 missiles to all directions is pretty bad late game, the mines get destroyed before they are under the enemy army. If it shot directly at random targets within range would scale better... and bring more explosions!

Hellion/Hellbat: I like them, they are nowhere near Reaper power level but they are fun to play. My only suggestion is to increase stats, favor the aggressive stats but even a bit of HP could make them able to deal their damage better. Messing with their AoEs could be fun too, the slow from Hellions feel small on screen.

And finally, the super crazy idea: create synergy between the slow debuff and the DoT debuff between forms. If a unit is covered in oil and on fire they should take more more damage from the DoT/explode on death? It would be a nice reason to use both units and change between forms, being locked behind 2 mid/late game talents means the effect could be very nice.

01/17/2018 01:03 PMPosted by monk
Strike Fighters aren’t seeing as much use as we’d like. We’d like to hear your thoughts on ways that we might change these to make them more appealing


The first thing I would like to see addressed is the interaction between the Raven(its "infra-red" scanner) and the lock targeting. We should be able to coordinate attacks using the tactical advantage of the Raven and this would solve many issues regarding the speed of the strike.

I believe if the Raven gave "half fog vision" of units before painting them red this would be solved. By "half fog" I mean when you just lost vision of a place and can still see the enemy units moving around, you can target lock these units.

Normalizing travel times would be nice too, if you aren't lock targeting it's almost impossible to predict how long the strike will take to land. Maybe add a chunk of extra speed if X time has elapsed since launch? Even if the plane slowed down when getting too close to the target, this would help the late game use of this awesome spell.

-Fenix

You should revise why can't Fenix change suits more frequently, it would be a lot of fun to quickly cycle through suits mid battle and he is already capped by energy. He also should be able to "change" to his current suit, not being able to teleport him makes using his Arbiter suit a risky move: "do I have fun with this third of my hero or do I hold back until I need to use his teleport?". That isn't fun.

01/17/2018 01:03 PMPosted by monk
Fenix’s army lacks survivability. First, we believe that whatever buffs we make to Fenix’s army (even offensive ones) will improve his units’ survivability (Amon’s units don’t deal damage when they’re dead). Additionally, we’re looking into what we can do about the Conservator, a unit whose designated purpose is to help retain units.


In my opinion there should always be a way to repair robotic armies in fantasy worlds (unless we are in a post apoc setting lol), especially super advanced ones like the purifiers. Playing with a Karax ally feels like a complete experience to that shinny army.

That would be an amazing job for the conservator, inside its "aura" it applies heal over time buffs on damaged mechanical units. I would make the healing aspect a out of battle thing and the bubble, if we are keeping it, the on battle effect.

I would also have a look on Khaldalis and his Legionnaires, it is common for the AI to spread its damage instead of focusing Khaldalis, defeating the point of Shell jumping. Maybe give Khaldalis a sort of taunt?

01/17/2018 01:03 PMPosted by monk
Which of the commander’s Mastery choices do you think are underpowered? Is every Mastery choice an interesting one?


I dislike Fenix's second tier. The choice between more HP or more DPS doesn't really change his game play in my opinion, the HP bonus also goes against his most interesting mechanic: shell swap.
Oh, and I almost forgot:

While H&H don't have dedicated defensive structures (and that is cool), could "His and Hers supply" also increase Depot's HP/Armor? I always thought that the famous Terran walls was a perfect fit for their choice of defensive fortifications: a bunch of mercenaries behind a barricade with mines on front is pretty dope, but the walls gotta be stronger.

This also help Mag Mines since a common strategy is to use Depots as bait to the enemy army.
I think it'd be pretty neat if perhaps strike fighters had a variety of munitions.

Some sort of multi-lockon missile barrage that fired one missile at every unit in the area (including air) for generalist use. Providing a general easy option that fares okay against everything but not particularly stellar against any one thing. While supplementing anti air damage so you can have more hellions and hellbats. This also doubles as an accessibility option for players who just want an option they don't have to think too hard about.

A thermal payload for wide area ground destruction. Perhaps with vector targetting so you can choose an approach run, similar to placing beams for karax.

A bunker buster for cracking hybrids and buildings. This particular bomb would only allow targetting a specific unit instead of an area, but deal massive damage to beefy ground targets.

I think that'd play pretty well into the surgical strike fantasy, you always bring the right tool for the job after all.

But hey, it could just be the CnC generals fan in me. Always did love that game.

Another idea I think could help make the abillity more usable is perhaps making the pilots bail if they are about to whiff, if they reach the point where they drop the bomb and no valid targets are in the AOE, they just book it back to base, with a massively reduced cooldown.
Part and Parcel
I enjoy a more difficult bonus mission. I don't always have to get the bonus in every mission. There is a problem though. There is no warning that the bonus is going to appear as in other maps. No preparation possible.

Karax
His upgrade (200/200 for many of them, even 100/100 is expensive for an upgrade actually since there are so many) and unit costs are too high. There is no reason for +50% unit cost any more. Especially if you compare Karax to Fenix, who has reduced unit cost and no gas cost for buildings as well as much cheaper upgrades.

Pure Sentinels are quite good, however the energizers needed are too expensive gas wise for early pushing and conflict with his upgrades for his top bar abilities. In this context it is incredibly punishing to lose an energizer, which happens as it is prioritized due to its anti-air attack because of its high gas cost.

Summary
Karax lacks pushing power, but that is okay, as he is a defensive commander. An ability which aids with pushing would be great if it were added though. (No idea though what it should be - indestructible probe maybe?).
He is a very good support hero (chrono, shield battery, defense).
He lacks non-carrier anti-air (many commanders struggle with air though).
His masteries are good. The unit cost reduction is a joke though since they just get it back to the base price. 150% * 0.7 ~ 100%

All in all a good commander though. But definitely over-priced (upgrades and units) which makes him feel a bit weak compared to other commanders.
Fenix
Reply to original post
His ramp up time is not slow as his buildings have neither tech requirements nor gas cost. Also he has a reduced unit cost. The +30 supply mastery also helps a lot with his early economy. In addition, he does not need a robo for detection, if you get the arbiter suit upgrade from the forge. I believe, as someone already said, that many people try to build every unit at once. However, both mass adepts (with 3/3/3 upgrades) and carriers can easily a move beat most missions and come quite fast (I usually build 3 early stargates, which are really affordable without gas cost). His early to mid game can be carried by his suits.

Avenging protocol encourages units dying, which feels weird for a protoss death ball commander and would much better fit e.g. Zagara. Also the -1 range does not work out for expensive units as you usually don't want any units to die ideally.
Also it would be better if champion units would be allowed to warp in instantly instead of queuing up as it is tedious to build every type of unit (and also not really SC2-ish to build every unit).
It would also be good if champions got buffs/granted buffs to all units regardless of type as to avoid building units of every type (except for the one champion).
All in all the champion design is not working out though. Fenix is THE typical protoss death ball commander to me where you are just basically a multiplayer protoss with buffs. The champions are just icing on the cake.

Units
His units are good, cheap and I do not find them squishy. In general he lacks a bit of non-carrier anti-air since there are not enough adepts if I go for robo units. (But many commanders do suffer from lack of anti-air, so I guess it is not that important)

The legionnaire is too costly in both supply and minerals. Compared to the adept it is just too expensive. The adept has anti-air, is ranged and and also has a shade attack while being 2/3 of the supply and 2/3 of the mineral cost.

The scout does feel a bit squishy, however I did not really use this unit much except for getting the champion.

The disruptor requires too much micro. It would be good if it had auto-cast similiar to the snipe of Nova's ghost (so why not?).

Suits
The Praetor Armor and Solarite Dragoon are good for early and mid game while the Cybros Arbiter is great for the late game. This conflicts with the mechanic, that suits only regenerate energy offline as they have different periods of uses during a game of coop. Also it feels awkward in general that suits do not regenerate online. To mitigate that, maybe it is possible to let offline suits regenerate twice as fast and to increase the energy cost of the abilities at the same time.

There is no need for the suit cool down also. On the contrary I find it irritating.

The praetor armor suit is fine.
The solarite dragoon suit is a bit squishy and it is only really good for its abilities. I wish it would have a bit more standing power.
The cybros arbiter suit is great.

Masteries
His first two mastery sets are underwhelming as Fenix's strength does not come from his suits or his champions, but mainly from his army (at least for now). His suits can handle the early skirmishes just fine without extra damage and energy and thus the first mastery set is not really impactful.

His third mastery set also feels disappointing. The chrono is not really necessary since Fenix can just build more production/upgrade facilities since they cost no gas. It does help slightly with probe production, but the +30 supply help even more. Actually the supply mastery does help a lot, but compared to other commanders such as Artanis, Dehaka, Nova, Zagara(twin drones and 100 supply only) the +30 feels very little. It wouldn't hurt if it doubled/trippled/quadruppled. It wouldn't hurt balance as it is only minerals anyways in the late game.

Summary
Compared to Karax, Fenix has super hyper ultra short ramp up time to cheap and non-squishy units. I actually am still confused which scenario people encounter to call his units squishy. Overall he is a very solid commander (neither over or underperforming) who could have some (minor?) tweaks, especially to his champion and suit design though.

And he is only a champion/hero commander in disguise as he really relies on his standard units in his army. (I'm not saying that is bad, just that the intention of having the focus on champions is not working if you compare to the concepts of, e.g. Dehaka (Hero), Stukov (Infested), Abathur (Biomass mechanic) etc.)
Awesome thanks for the update! I am not too good at making analysis post, but I will give my kudos and will keep an eye out for changes and new maps/commanders!
Reworking the existing commanders? I hope this does not mean that we won't get new commanders and maps anytime soon.

My suggestion for strike fighters: Change the platform to double platform. One platform should support two fighters so you only need 5 platforms to get all 10 fighters. Building 10 platforms isn't worth the effort and cost and by the time you have all 10 platforms your army is strong enough to kill anything even without the fighters.

Also, let the fighters strike faster. The time from starting the fighters to attacking takes to long. By the time the fighters are at their targets your army has destroyed everything already.

And by the way: Please let the galleons benefit from the healing/regeneration (I know it is not a Horner unit, but it would be very convenient to not have SCV's run with your army only because of galleons not healing).
01/18/2018 11:01 AMPosted by DSh
Part and Parcel
I enjoy a more difficult bonus mission. I don't always have to get the bonus in every mission. There is a problem though. There is no warning that the bonus is going to appear as in other maps. No preparation possible.

Karax
His upgrade (200/200 for many of them, even 100/100 is expensive for an upgrade actually since there are so many) and unit costs are too high. There is no reason for +50% unit cost any more. Especially if you compare Karax to Fenix, who has reduced unit cost and no gas cost for buildings as well as much cheaper upgrades.

Pure Sentinels are quite good, however the energizers needed are too expensive gas wise for early pushing and conflict with his upgrades for his top bar abilities. In this context it is incredibly punishing to lose an energizer, which happens as it is prioritized due to its anti-air attack because of its high gas cost.

Summary
Karax lacks pushing power, but that is okay, as he is a defensive commander. An ability which aids with pushing would be great if it were added though. (No idea though what it should be - indestructible probe maybe?).
He is a very good support hero (chrono, shield battery, defense).
He lacks non-carrier anti-air (many commanders struggle with air though).
His masteries are good. The unit cost reduction is a joke though since they just get it back to the base price. 150% * 0.7 ~ 100%

All in all a good commander though. But definitely over-priced (upgrades and units) which makes him feel a bit weak compared to other commanders.

I agree with what your overall gist, though I'm not sure if your unit cost calculation for Karax's mastery is correct.

When Karax goes with cannon build he only spends gas on energizers, upgrades, and monoliths, so the upgrades have to be pricey in order to smooth out his development over the course of a game. However, when you're going with an army, many of his unique upgrades aren't desperately needed so the gas will be spent compensating his army instead. My point is that adjusting research cost wouldn't do much for either version of Karax. Zyrusticae best illustrated the problem Karax's face:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20761076677?page=3#post-48
I just don't think that twiddling with research costs would do anything to change the picture. The army cost needs to be addressed head on for Karax to gain versatility outside of cannon-oriented builds.
Damn, there are a lot of posts in this thread. I’ll keep mine short. I agree with a lot of the other changes that people are suggesting; but here are some more minor QoL changes in Part and Parcel.
  • Stop the dramatic music from playing during the hybrid battles. Normally, I turn off SC2 music so that I can play my own music, but I keep SFX on so that I hear important game details. I dislike tabbing out of SC2 to pause my own music during the battles.
  • Change Davis’s programming so that she can only tell you to go faster every minute or more. Currently, she often repeats herself two or more times in a row. We heard you the first time, Davis.
  • Make the hybrids and the Balius stronger so that there’s a feeling that we need Davis in order to win. Currently, it just feels like she takes up space without helping very much.
  • 01/17/2018 01:03 PMPosted by monk

    Han & Horner

    After we release a commander, we like to take a little time to evaluate our community’s experience with them and then see what we can do to improve it. Our most recent commander has seen a decent amount of time in the sun so far and we’ve noticed the following:
    • Reapers seem like they’re in a good place right now. Most of the other units, on the other hand, seem weaker in comparison. The community has specifically pointed to the Battlecruiser as a problem unit, citing his Mini Yamato upgrade is more of a downgrade.
    • Strike Fighters aren’t seeing as much use as we’d like. We’d like to hear your thoughts on ways that we might change these to make them more appealing


    You're right. Reapers, Hellions and Widow mines are great.
    The rest is indeed meh.

    Wraiths are actually easy to fix.
    They have the stats, but they lack the numbers. Let us have more than 6 of in an average game... because six wraiths was never something to write home about.

    Battlecruisers can be fixed too. There have been great suggestion how to do that and I endorse them all. Especially those which favour them with shorter projectile travel times and being able to fire multiple weapons at once.

    Strike fighters. The imo most solid suggestions are
    1) Faster travel speed so they can be used to snipe targets in the middle of a fight and still get there in time.
    2) Sensor array should allow locking onto enemy signatures.
    3) Increase their vision range. Seriously, they would feel a lot less restrictive if already having fighters in the area would allow you to make casual decisions what to strike next.
    About the Balius parts of help I think and feel like Davis help is more and better used in cleaning up enemy camps than the hybrids which is kindy contradictionary.
    By the way Han and Horner have horrible mastery options.

    It barely feels any different to play before lvl 15 and after.

    I guess I'm stronger, but it's all passive and not very impactful.

    It's not exactly exciting to level up the mastery for them.
    Part and parcel:

    First of all, the battle music should respect the "music volume" setting in options. If I disable music because I'm listening to my own music, I shouldn't hear the battle music. Period, end of story.

    Second, just add a minute to the initial timer. Give us a little more time to screw around/get the bonus. Clicking on the boxes is annoying, but units that hit the boxes instead of the enemies around the boxes would be far more annoying.

    Fenix:

    My biggest issue is that he bleeds a bit too much. Maybe just buff conservators? Giving him 30-50% damage reduction on most of his army would help a lot, and it would promote micro and multiple unit types over spamming a single unit.

    Also, new "avenging protocol" idea -- when he loses a unit, all nearby units restore +X health and shields (up to their normal maximum). When a champion dies, get 5x the normal restore. For the most part, he's fine against single target damage -- champions absorb most of it, and that keeps his bleed to reasonable levels. His real issue is when he eats a ton of aoe that kills a bunch of shells at once. In those sorts of scenarios, his champions die last (since they have the most hp), and that is where he really starts to bleed. With this, he'll lose a few shells, but the heal will keep the rest of his army alive.

    Also, maybe increase the range on dragoon suit abilities? As is, if you are a-moving dragoon suit, he tends to stay at the back of your army, and his abilities don't have the range to hit much from there.

    Beyond that, he actually feels pretty decent to me. I honestly don't think that his startup time is that big of an issue -- kaldalis comes out quickly, and fenix + kaldalis + talis + a few shells (+ maybe a buffed conservator) seems to work pretty well early on. I wouldn't mind online energy regen (so I could use the best suit for the current situation instead of having to trade that suit out every so often), but it isn't critical.

    Karax:

    I haven't leveled him up, mostly because leveling him is so insanely painful. Until you get level 15 + high mastery, his units are basically unusable due to their cost. Once you get there, sure, he actually has options. However, I don't really want to spam cannons on oblivion express for 15 damned levels.

    Also, when you look at kerrigan, please make kerrigan the hero unit better against stealthed units and air? Maybe make her leap hit stealth again (playing whack-a-mole with leap vs lurkers/swarm hosts was one of my favorite things), and make her slide hit air (including stealthed air) at 50% damage. She'd actually be able to use energy vs air units, and she'd be able to hit banshees in some manner. Alarak can already deal 50 damage to air units in a much larger aoe, so it shouldn't be too broken.
    Also please never !@#$ing use vertigo mutation ever again.

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