Co-op Mission Update - Artanis Revamp

Co-op Missions Discussion
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My thoughts:

Artanis anti-air: One of the most interesting suggestions I saw on the forums was to leave Phoenixes mostly the same (or a slight buff as has been applied here) but to give Artanis the ability to produce scouts. He was a Scout in SC1 at some point I believe and the SC2 model exists for both Amon's and Fenix's scouts, and scouts cover the anti-armored air really well. Both Phoenix and Scouts cope with light ground and there are Tempests for the heavy stuff.

Dragoons: No idea. I like the idea of just giving them a small +bonus to air so that they were reliable. They'll never compete for anti-ground against the rest of Artanis's kit - zealots, storm, immortals, reavers all massacre light and armored ground.

Shield Overcharge: As has been noted above (and apparently in earlier Blizzard patch notes), the problem with the Overcharge is that fights are over too quickly for the extra duration to matter and most of the shield HP is wasted anyway. One idea might be to make it give a small overshield to everything it affects so that after the shield from the overcharge is gone the unit still has a small 20 or 30 hp shield that will regenerate up to its maximum value if damaged but doesn't regenerate once removed. (Similar to Symmetra's Shield Generator ult or her E from earlier patches).

Orbital Strike: the orbital strike UI is really clumsy - if the intent is to have Artanis use it a lot more often then can this UI be removed or reworked?
04/07/2018 12:15 PMPosted by Machariel
My thoughts:

Artanis anti-air: One of the most interesting suggestions I saw on the forums was to leave Phoenixes mostly the same (or a slight buff as has been applied here) but to give Artanis the ability to produce scouts. He was a Scout in SC1 at some point I believe and the SC2 model exists for both Amon's and Fenix's scouts, and scouts cover the anti-armored air really well. Both Phoenix and Scouts cope with light ground and there are Tempests for the heavy stuff.

Dragoons: No idea. I like the idea of just giving them a small +bonus to air so that they were reliable. They'll never compete for anti-ground against the rest of Artanis's kit - zealots, storm, immortals, reavers all massacre light and armored ground.

Shield Overcharge: As has been noted above (and apparently in earlier Blizzard patch notes), the problem with the Overcharge is that fights are over too quickly for the extra duration to matter and most of the shield HP is wasted anyway. One idea might be to make it give a small overshield to everything it affects so that after the shield from the overcharge is gone the unit still has a small 20 or 30 hp shield that will regenerate up to its maximum value if damaged but doesn't regenerate once removed. (Similar to Symmetra's Shield Generator ult or her E from earlier patches).

Orbital Strike: the orbital strike UI is really clumsy - if the intent is to have Artanis use it a lot more often then can this UI be removed or reworked?


How about healing all shields with activation of spell. For Protoss units.
If they want to keep the role of the dragoon the same (tanky thing that gets sprinkled in for extra st damage or aa)
damage 20, 34 v armor (upgrade +2 base, 3or 4 v armor)
trillic compression +80 hp
I just got an Idea for Artanis Mastery rework:
I think Spear of Adun starting and maximum energy: should be change into Pylon energie Range increed.
But hey Just an Idea like that: I just don't think Artanis need much energie really. Since any way he got alot of Cooldown on his ability. Tho may be whit his New cooldown on his Shield Overcharge it will be a bit more usefull now?

I just think Pylon energie range would help Artanis alot more than Energie on his ability.

"Extra Spear of Adun energy for Artanis is relatively useless since Orbital Strike is so weak and Shield Overcharge is limited by cooldown rather than energy. "

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/single-player/527245-co-op-commander-guide-artanis

SORRY FOR THE BAD ENGLISH
04/07/2018 07:34 AMPosted by Koronus
Well Phoenix are usefull for against zerg air or impatient people which think tempests move much to slow.
They don't only move too slow, they also shoot too slow.
They're pretty bad at defending things, like the bots on Mist, because they don't kill the enemy units fast enough.
Phoenixes will lift the enemy units and kill them faster.
He's still going to prohibitively suck against certain mutations.
04/08/2018 07:35 PMPosted by SniperJoe
He's still going to prohibitively suck against certain mutations.

This ties back to the fact that Artanis dragoons sucks. Many mutations requires an early game presence, which others commanders satisfy by either having a hero unit or very strong early game units/calldown. Heck even Swann gets his turrets that he can recycle for free so he's good on some defense map mutations. Artanis have neither a hero unit nor any good early game unit (zealots can barely hold anything before they get spin and charge) and orbital strike ducks too.
The fastest way he gets an early game presence is rushing tempest ironically... which is a problem many others has pointed out. Rushing capital ships is often a suboptimal strat but artanis aren't left with any real alternative.
03/30/2018 04:13 AMPosted by Shoobs
03/29/2018 07:00 PMPosted by IcyMaple
...
sorry, I don't know stating the "fact"(or hypothesis you mean?) was wrong. Let's just change the the way I say it. Monk is better than 95% of known players.(some actually break the record but just don't care to tell TL) And someone, like team member,and you, and me, is just not that 5%.
It is always better to let the person who actually masters the game and knows the result of any changes to lead the team. Or, Artanis may still have one of the worst AA and dumb bar abilities for another year or two.


There isn't any proof he is leading the team. He is a team member, he is only the one reaching out to the public. That doesn't make him team lead. He gets ideas, they get run by upper management, and they get approved by upper management.

Stop living in the clouds, stop trying to think that this is a one man task force, stop thinking that its solely because he joined the team. He's HELPED, and perhaps brought people back down to earth in regards to what they thought were going on, but its NOT him and him only, and there's been ZERO PROOF that he is the top man on the totem pole other than it being him that became community manager.


I will still hold the idea that Monk is way better in coop designing than DS because he made the world records. And I don't deny the fact that Monk is way better than me. The question now becomes, how come these changes appeared right after and only after Monk took DS's position? Did you mean the whole team was actually not performing well(like...nerf this, nerf that, nerf whatever is strong, i.e. carriers) until Monk join the team?
Or you just dislike the fact that Monk is way better than you in game play? Nearly no one like this fact, but, still, we are the 95% not-top player.
Oh, btw, Monk does have a channel, a community that consist of only top players, like Yuri etc.(tech guy and pic guy are also in there too) That means he can get ideas, reflections and suggestions from the top players. And based on these, he can improve the game better than previous designer. Again, not you and me, the 95%s. Therefore, I hold very positive attitude on his every act.
04/11/2018 09:42 PMPosted by IcyMaple

only after Monk took DS's position?


This seems to be where your argument and logic fails.

There is no proof, no word from blizzard, anything, that says David Sum is no longer working there and Monk took his position. None.

Stop.
Seriously. Just. Stop.
For ****s sake.

He is NOT the lead, if he was, IT"D BE IN THE POSTS HE"S PUTTING UP ON THIS VERY FORUM.

All the other points are MOOT. It's not him that has final say on ANY of this. He, at best, lends his knowledge and expertise to the rest of the team, which may or may not include David above him, but he is ONLY a member of the team. He's FAR too new to Blizzard to be anything higher.

03/29/2018 11:28 AMPosted by monk

Kevin Dong
Co-op Commander Designer


Does that say LEAD Designer?
Does it?
04/11/2018 09:42 PMPosted by IcyMaple
The question now becomes, how come these changes appeared right after and only after Monk took DS's position? Did you mean the whole team was actually not performing well(like...nerf this, nerf that, nerf whatever is strong, i.e. carriers) until Monk join the team?
Just as easily, Monk could have dropped in at a time when the co-op team were in the process of or have already decided that it was time to do these commander overhauls.

There's no proof or suggestion to go either way.

What you are trying to do here is making a narrative that suits you when there are clearly not enough dots to connect.
04/11/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Cybernetic
04/11/2018 09:42 PMPosted by IcyMaple
The question now becomes, how come these changes appeared right after and only after Monk took DS's position? Did you mean the whole team was actually not performing well(like...nerf this, nerf that, nerf whatever is strong, i.e. carriers) until Monk join the team?
Just as easily, Monk could have dropped in at a time when the co-op team were in the process of or have already decided that it was time to do these commander overhauls.

There's no proof or suggestion to go either way.

What you are trying to do here is making a narrative that suits you when there are clearly not enough dots to connect.


And if you really need some good proof on what went on when they hired him, you'd notice that prior to joining Blizzard, he had no real programming experience behind his belt, not to mention that game design in general is much different than what he originally expected.

There's a LOT of work involved that I really think this forum doesn't seem to have any sort of grasp on or of. Hell, even my Raynor suggestion RE: BC/Bunker combo feels like something that they might pick for a NEW Commander and concept over a Raynor concept. It's more a "Cool Idea" concept than anything else, since I have no idea how well balanced it'd be having a Battlecruiser housing 6 unstimmed, but unkillable marines until 600+ airborn HP is taken out, all firing out of the big lumbering capital ship. Or having 3 marauders doing the same. Or having 3 firebats roast any scourge that get near. Or having 3 vultures sniping. Or carrying 2 siege tanks turning the BC into a huge artillery platform of crazy HP.
(Dear god the 6 BC/Firebat image I just got in my mind. Shudder, poor zerg. )
04/08/2018 07:35 PMPosted by SniperJoe
He's still going to prohibitively suck against certain mutations.

yeah but all commanders suck against some mutations, what's your point?

no change will make Nova good against kill bots f.ex
I love the bunker in battlecruiser idea, many such units existed in command&conquer series and they were awesome!
Medics in battle cruisers healing/repairing nearby units is also cool.

As far as artanis goes even after the rework arrives:
- Dragoons will still be bad and not worth spending any gas on at all.
- Phoenix will still be weak against the most dangerous air units (armored/massive, not light).
- Top bar abilities will go from bad to meh.
- Artanis will still be considered one of the more underwhelming commanders

Also it sucks so much that artanis and fenix still can not repair/heal their own units.
Almost every terran and some zerg commanders can fix protoss units - but artanis and fenix are too stupid to do it by themselves.
Just out of curiosity, how much of a DPS increase will dragoons get vs armored air?
04/13/2018 12:54 AMPosted by Qendel
Just out of curiosity, how much of a DPS increase will dragoons get vs armored air?
+3 dps unupgraded and +4.5 dps fully upgraded.
03/29/2018 11:28 AMPosted by monk
Warp Charge Cooldown Reduction Mastery replaced by Energy Regeneration and Ability Cooldown Reduction Mastery.

Wait.....where Have I seen this mastery before?
02/08/2018 11:07 PMPosted by DarthWalrus
+45% Attack/Move Speed in Power Fields (Matrix Overload-esque) OR -50% Ability cost and Cooldown (includes reaver scarab construction)


THEY READ MY SUGGESTION THIS IS THE BEST DAY IN MY LIFE
Suggestion for the Dragoon:

Instead of having one weapon, allow it to have two: One that strikes ground and one that strikes air. In terms of animation and design, both attacks function exactly the same (much like the Battlecruisers ATS and ATA weapons). In terms of application, each would be used for different situations.

The current weapon would be changed to target GROUND ONLY doing the same damage.
- 14 base damage (+8 versus armored)

Its second weapon would target AIR ONLY, inflicting the damage Blizzard proposed in its first Artanis revamp post.
- 14 base damage (+14 versus armored)

This would work because Dragoons would now fulfill the role of Anti-Air armor for Artanis without overlapping the Immortal. It would make for a greater support in your army, much like it was intended to be.
04/14/2018 04:52 PMPosted by xDRAMAGIRLx
Suggestion for the Dragoon:

Instead of having one weapon, allow it to have two: One that strikes ground and one that strikes air. In terms of animation and design, both attacks function exactly the same (much like the Battlecruisers ATS and ATA weapons). In terms of application, each would be used for different situations.

The current weapon would be changed to target GROUND ONLY doing the same damage.
- 14 base damage (+8 versus armored)

Its second weapon would target AIR ONLY, inflicting the damage Blizzard proposed in its first Artanis revamp post.
- 14 base damage (+14 versus armored)

This would work because Dragoons would now fulfill the role of Anti-Air armor for Artanis without overlapping the Immortal. It would make for a greater support in your army, much like it was intended to be.
If people are not happy with the strength of Dragoons after the suggested buff, then if they were to split their attack, I'm going to say that the anti-air attack should get buffed more.

Maybe bump that up to 20 (30 vs armor) and 7 range (9 after upgrade). And maybe increase missile speed for both ground & air attack to reduce some overkill.

Posted by DarthWalrus
+45% Attack/Move Speed in Power Fields (Matrix Overload-esque) OR -50% Ability cost and Cooldown (includes reaver scarab construction)

THEY READ MY SUGGESTION THIS IS THE BEST DAY IN MY LIFE
I wish it was Ability cost and not energy regeneration.
So when are these changes going live?

They're not live now right?
04/14/2018 10:06 PMPosted by SniperJoe
So when are these changes going live?
Possibly this Tuesday 17th.

04/14/2018 10:06 PMPosted by SniperJoe
They're not live now right?
You're not familiar with Blizzard's patching regime, are you? If they were live now, it would be accompanied by things such as the game updating via a patch, someone posting a link to the patch notes, or you playing / browsing through the game and easily spotting the changes.

None of the above has happened because Blizzard does not deploy these kinds of patches by stealth. And it's not Tuesday yet; patch day is always a Tuesday (except for emergencies).

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